I would not pretend for even a moment to know how to get a third party established that actually gets representation. But, one thing I know for sure is that if we were to get someone like Kucinich or Gravel into the White House, even if just a Cabinet assignment, we would then not be wasting our time at all in working to move the Green Party and the DSA into the national mainstream. For that matter, let’s bring in the Revolutionary Communist Party. Love them or hate them, that guy Bob Avakian would eat any of our candidates for lunch in a debate. What they have in countries like Germany, France, Austria, and many others is the chance to hear a major multitude of ideas that come from all kinds of parties before they have to make any major votes. In France they have a saying, something like “first we eliminate, then we choose”, because they have a good runoff system there. The German system is remarkable in its mathematically representative approach. You should look it up, study it, because if we had that in place, we would be guaranteed a much higher voter turnout and at least four for five parties.

Maybe I answered my own question. The way to get viable parties added to the two we have is to elect someone with the testicular fortitude to demand a new voting system. That is why I will not be voting for any mainstream candidates, unless they come out in support of these kinds of things. I just heard Gravel on the radio, and he totally unafraid to say that Bush stole the 04 election. The evidence is out bold and clear, so why aren’t any of the establishment candidates shouting about that too? I can think of a lot more reasons NOT to vote for Clinton, Edwards or Obama, than I can the other way. Sorry.

You have no idea what I have done or am doing and have again created an argument with no facts and instead made up a story that fits you view. Am am involved and have been since before I could drive and have always pushed diversity over ideology. What I am saying is only negative if you have so much invested in a party that you are more afraid of you team loosing than anything else. One cannot dismiss the problems and hope for the best, that to me is what a spoiled child acts like.

I know enough people who work inside the major parties to have a good idea on the mechanisms that keep them alive. Your suggestion to get local city council people elected and so on is a joke I hope. It is a closed network where the party at each level supports the other and those in Kenwood that raise big dollars for Hillary and Barak will also pull the strings on the local level to assist a DFLer at the city level. I don’t believe in conspiracies, I just think that in the same way organisms evolve in nature to create the most number of viable offspring our two party system has evolved to protect itself from being challenged in the way you mention. Our best chance is to capitalize on the anomaly, the mutation.

I am not negative in the least. I do not however walk around with rose colored glasses.

And thanks A35 for the comments. I almost always agree with the sentiments if not the mechanics of your ideas.

Again, I remind you, and everyone else, that if every registered voter actually voted for the person they think would have the most positive impact on the world at large - as opposed to who they think has the biggest chance of winning - candidates like Hillary would already be out of the running. I haven’t done the polling myself, but I would venture to say that if you asked the most educated citizens in the country who they would vote for if they would not have to worry about “spoiling”, they would be still talking about Barack and Hillary, but Kucinich would be holding his own remarkably well. For the good of the country, there must come a time in history when Americans just decide to vote their conscience, knowing full well that they will need to deal with the consequences, be they good, bad, or both. I am way prepared.

Lastly, there is the theory that maybe what we need in this country is another Republican, so that we can see just how bad things can get here. In that case, we just might take it to the streets, throwing caution and fear to the wind, exactly what we should have done in 2004 when the election was stolen.

Why does caucusing you conscience mean anything if you end supporting a candidate who is going to maintain the status quo? Is it just to easy your feelings of guilt? Kucinich and Clinton have so little in common your statement is laughable. Just look at how they have handled the issue of Iraq. Do you think the universal health care system designed by Clinton would match the integrity of one designed by Kucinich? The difference between the two would likely be the difference between a system based around enriching a narrow group of constituents verses one that at least attempts to be what is best for the people.

The Republicans have never been a party of the free market. They have disguised using their political power to favor one constituent group or another by wrapping it in a free market skin but it doesn’t make it so. You seem to be the perfect patsy for the Democrats as many war supporters are for the Republicans. If you are to beholden to the Democrats that you are afraid of breaking with their system they have no reason to pay much attention to you. You can pretend to make a difference by voting a major party line but if we continue on this path and have another 60 years of back and forth between Republican and Democrat faithful there will be very little left of our country worth arguing over.

While I respect Kucinich for his integrity I do not support his ideas on policy in many big areas. Right now out of the candidates on either side my choice would be Ron Paul. Obviously his chance to win the endorsement is a good bit lower than even Kucinich. The problem is that during the general election I refuse to vote for the end product of the two parties and end up with a person who gets a tiny sliver of a percentage. The parties like the fact there are a few extreme members (Paul, Gravel, Kucinich) in the process as it provides them the appearance of being open to change. In the end though the system wins and the name on the ballot makes little difference. Think about how much Bush is a product of the system and you will get my view point.

For me the only way to change this is that on the slim chance a true agent of change gets elected that that person focuses on reducing the power of the Federal and state governments and breaking up the system that keeps the two parties from responding to reality. I think our best hope is to distribute power, increase diversity, protect our rights, and create a humble government. The huge power held in Washington will always be a target for those who want to manipulate it in their favor and no amount of legislation (especially by those benefiting from the current system) will keep them from doing so. There are other ways of supporting the less well off among us than increasing the power of the same groups that brought us the Iraq war. Homogenizing and engineering the economy or our culture in the name of “fairness”, fear, or simply the opinion of the majority is not in the best interest of our nation.

Long post I know but Independence Day can be for more than drinking beer and shooting of fireworks. At least for 30 minutes. Happy 4th and stay safe everyone.