Al Franken released this video responding to the Bush-Coleman fundraiser.
The best line? “Last quarter even though our average contribution was $65 we outraised Norm Coleman. You can’t buy a lot of shrimp for $65.”
Again: see it here.
(closed circuit to Matt: Oh, well-heeled oligarch of MNPublius, if one day could you give me the power to embed videos in my posts, I would be ever-so-appreciative I know I am just a simple peon but I know you are munificent in your benevolence kind sir.)
Sean, don’t you mean to ask Matt if he could just show you how to do it?
Also if you’re a real nerd check out today’s flight restrictions due to the president flying in today.
I know how to do it! We’ve even had this discussion! He’s like “Oh, just copy and paste the embed link from the youtube page.” And it doesn’t work. And it’s clearly a plot to keep me down.
Sean | Damning the man, even if that man is Matt.
the wordpress blog i use lets me post youtube videos by putting in the code ”[youtube=URL]”
No dice. Sean
Sorry but Franken is still a two dimensional politician - can’t flesh out the detail/policy ideas that a leader should provide.
Franken notes there is no Universal Health Plan component to the Coleman/Bush agenda. And yet Franken FAILS to provide specifics on his website about how he will make it possible for all Americans to have access to health care…he simply points out that a single-payer plan is not the only way to go…gosh Al are you intimidated by the insurance cartel? Franken needs specifics - is his simply a hey America all of you will buy some insurance - it may be crappy but you will invest in it? Franken also states that Coleman/Bush fail to provide a significant response to global warming and renewable energy - on his website all Al says is we need an Apollo type program and win win wind- what the heck does that mean? Where is Al on ethanol? He says he is not in the pockets of big oil…how about Big Ag? That is where Democrats usually end up….check out Colin Peterson huge support of ethanol. Al is giving lip service to issues a lot of people care about - but he does not appear to have the passion to really turn things around.
Poser Al’s comment “Last quarter even though our average contribution was $65”. Really. Do you really want to go down the poser “man of the people” thing again.
That dog don’t hunt: http://coreyclaytonlnp.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/nyet188_people_britney_spea.jpg
The only Dems that should concern themselves with this event are Mark Richie and Becky Otto. The fact that Rep. Laura Brod is starting a statewide race by MC-ing this event should cause both to head to CVS for Malox.
So, demure one, where does Bush/Coleman/Coleman/Bush stand on Big Pharma, Universal health care, Global warming? I’ve heard Franken speak on these issues and his positions on these issues makes a lot more sense then normy’s. Big Pharma will not find a friend with Franken. Neither will Big Oil. I’m not completely sold on Franken but I am convinced anyone other then normy will be an improvement. Franken or Ciresi, take your pick.
Norm’s “Last Supper”…
See ya buddy……………
Angry Al spewed: “You can’t buy a lot of shrimp for $65.”
Al is speaking from personal experience here. The underprivileged kids and poor elderly clients of the Gloria Wise charity forfeited $millions to keep a shrimp named Al Franken afloat in cocaine, or whatever he is using these days to get throught the day, for a few months.
What a cretin.
Swiftee…
Al seams pretty happy to me…
It could be the drugs…
Or just Norm’s standing in the polls…
You’re probably right though…
Or, maybe it’s the million+ he pocketed from the Gloria Wise charity…or the drugs.
Hard to tell.
OK. here is the real question: When was the last time Al Franken mowed grass (a lawn, with a mower)?
I mean really. Norm has a house on a street with grass… In Minnesota. When was the last time Al Franken cut grass in Minnesota with a lawn mower?
Mow the grass? I’m in! Who’s got a match?
Anyone want to help me “shovel the snow”??
Al should forego trying to be a “regular guy.” Anyone knows his cocaine using, alcohol abusing, mirror-talking, hollywood hobnobbing life is nothing like us average guys who try to juggle keeping up our job, house, wife, kids, and who just want to fit in a little NASCAR on the side. Al’s idea of the simple life has a snobbish, superiority laden feel to it. What a joke that he thinks we will fall for his being “one of us” for one second!
“Al should forego trying to be a “regular guy….”
And yet you think Coleman represents you! LOL!!!!
Enlighten me Richard - I would love details on Al’s plans to combat global warming and solve the health care crisis. He doesn’t provide clarity on how to promote energy conservation or how to move away from a petroleum-based economy. He’s got attitude but little else. Your conclusion that anyone but normy will be an improvement speaks volumes. Why can’t the DFL get candidates who will fight the good fight - i.e. actually promote the DFL platform with specific plans. Klobuchar has been a huge disappointment for many of her supporters. Those of us who actually track issues closely realized she pulled punches on really important issues throughout her campaign. One was failing to speak out against then nominee Alito. For us we saw she wasn’t saying what she should have been saying as a candidate. The whole unspoken “she needs to be careful as a candidate and not put herself out there” was in play. This of course was accompanied by the false hope that when she is in office she will of course stand up and fight for the people - ha! Now she is in office and she needs to be careful so that she can remain in office. If a candidate only provides feel-good rhetoric,that individual will not blossom into a substantial public servant. Look at Franken’s “positions” and honestly ask yourself the following: if you strip away the attitude filled rhetoric and got down to the basics is Al saying anything on domestic issues that Norm would disagree with? No because Al is being incredibly wishy-washy and vague.
Swiftee — You know how we feel about posting under two different names, we’d really rather you didn’t. Sean
Swiftee = Permanent Ignore
Demure-
I think that Al’s position on children’s health care and Norm’s might diverge. Al wants all children to be covered and Norm is still cheer leading for a president that plans to veto a bill expanding health care to more children.
The devil is in the details Anon. Think about it the bill that expands health care to children WILL mean more taxpayer money goes to the insurance companies so that more children can gain access. In a sense it is legislation that demands the insurance companies be further subsidized by we the people. The legislation is like a patch - it doesn’t address the waste in the system. It doesn’t make the insurance companies step it up when it comes to being more efficient and providing better service. We pay more per capita on health care than any other nation and we get a heck of a lot less for our investment. How is this legislation going to turn things around.
Viola, video of the lead up to the fundraiser. I tried to embed, but no luckL http://www.minneapolitics.com/?p=142
BTW - Al has a HUGE opening for challenging Norm on children’s issues - especially Special Education funding. In his debate with Mondale, Coleman said he would go to Washington and get the promised Federal aid for Special Ed funding. This would be a huge deal for Minnesota. Why hasn’t Coleman made good on his promise? Why hasn’t Franken pointed this out? Campaigns are THE time for candidates to push the issues - For domestic issues Franken isn’t pushing in any meaningful way - i.e., no specific ideas, no specific plans. It’s feel good rhetoric that pretty much anyone agrees with.
The devil is the details. You cant wait till you’ve taken down the evil insurance companies to provide health care to children. Aside from the obvious emotional response, preventable and curable disease left untreated turn into chronic health problems that cost even more to treat later.
There are 15 months left till the election and 6 till the primary, i’m sure that candidates initial positions will gel into more effective policy positions when we get closer to the election.
Great Bachmann video. Worth sharing. http://americansunitedforchange.org/blog/endless_ad_bachmann
uh..yeah Anon you appear to be under the impression that ultimately people WILL get the treatment they need and that it will simply cost more. Rather a rosy vision eh? Insurance companies have profit as their primary concern. Patient care is second. They ARE a huge part of the problem. They DO deny people preventative care and treatment. If you or a loved one hasn’t had to jump through the hoops you are incredibly lucky. Meanwhile health care costs are responsible for half of the family bankruptcies in Minnesota. Yeah 15 months…sure he’ll develop a clear plan. But Al wants dollars and support now. Why should anyone support somebody who can’t clearly articulate how to deal with the health care crisis? Oh yeah…this is about supporting somebody who isn’t Norm…shall be interesting to see how low the DFL can go.
The reason nobody talks about real solutions (to health care or anything else) is that none of them are palatable to the public. So instead everybody exaggerates the benefits and ignores the costs of whatever program they have, for political purposes, decided to support.
“BTW - Al has a HUGE opening for challenging Norm on children’s issues -”
I agree completely. No one knows children’s issues better than children…Al’s got that one in the bag.
Well, with one exception of course.
Al had better stay clear of discussions regarding underprivileged kids; I don’t think that the kids who were hoping to go to summer camp with the Gloria Wise charity were too pleased to learn that Al had mugged them.
KH, you want solutions, here:
http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-healthy-nation/
Works for me.
Lest anyone think the swift moron isn’t talking out his ass: http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2006/10/gloria-wise-executives-indicted-air.html
This goes a long way to explain his weird and nonsensical posts and also, point out Franken was, in no way involved.
Oh wait, here’s a slightly different version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America-Gloria_Wise_loan_controversy
Apparently, this was one idiot dealing with a shady charity, trying to set up a crude ponzi scheme and got busted by the accountants. Money’s all paid back. The end. Oh yeah, Franken was in no way involved.
“Oh wait, here’s a slightly different version”
Yeah good idea Dick, since your first link was another feather in your asshat:
“The investigation, which began with an anonymous tip in 2004, gained momentum last year when it was revealed that the charity had improperly lent $875,000 to Air America Radio, a network known for its liberal programming and its most prominent host, Al Franken, the comedian, actor and writer.”
“The city immediately cut off payments to the charity and its affiliates, which relied on public money for nearly 80 percent of their budgets.”
“Two officials at Gloria Wise were directly involved in the radio network, according to the investigation, One of them, Sinohe Terrero, resigned as the charity’s fiscal director in 2003 to join Air America, while the other, Evan Montvel-Cohen, a former fund-raiser for the charity, was instrumental in securing the loans to the network.”
“Franken knew about it before he claimed on the air and that he pushed for a huge raise while the company was trying to figure out how to handle the mess, before it became public.”
Al wanted to be sure he got his before some spoilsport came along and demanded the money be returned to..you know, the poor kids it was meant to go to.
He *knew* that his paychecks were being provided on the backs of poor kids..period, end of story.
Franken signed a legal document indicating he approved of the repayment plan two months before he went on AirScamerica and claimed complete ignorance of the whole issue.
He should have stopped at complete ignorance..and so should you Dick.
My version:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/jhuth/naked_fat_man_lollers.jpg
Richard,
Kucinich is by far the best of the Dems and is out of the current batch of candidates my number two choice behind Paul. the problem of course as we have talked about before is that no matter how much you and I work for that candidate the parties will do whatever they can to keep them from getting anywhere because they are a threat to the power structures of their own parties. That is the problem with a politician that thinks for themselves. The most that will happen is that a few of their talking points will be co-opted along with zero of their substance.
I’m thinking about starting a local “Conservatives for Kucinich (for Democrat endorsement) chapter.
He’s my kind of moonbat..completely clueless and proud of it.
Swiftee,
I agree. I may disagree on every thought the man has on how the economy works but at least he voted against the war before it was cool to be anti-war unlike those posers Clinton, Edwards, Biden or Franken.
Kerosene Hat,
Who’s your candidate?
I may disagree on every thought the man has on how the economy works
So how’s the market control system working out for us? Personal debt at an alltime high. Job stagnation. Housing starts at the lowest point in 10 years. The market is screwing us mightily and it’s time to change horses. Instead of free trade, let’s try fair trade.
Richard,
If we have your way, we’ll have no trade. I love how you hate “Big Pharma” until you need some life saving medication. I love how you hate “Big Oil” until you need to drive your car or heat your house. I love how you hate “free trade” until you want to buy fresh fruit and vegetables in January.
Personal debt is at an all time high, but that’s not because people have to borrow to make ends meet. It’s because people aren’t responsible with their money. They buy homes too expensive for them or brand new cars and boats, or run up credit cards at Macy’s. You talk about job stagnation and I see record low unemployment. You see poor housing starts and I see more than 10 years of a white hot housing market. You say we’re being screwed and I say we got it pretty damned good so long as the liberals don’t come in and wreck it like the Carter years when we had stagflation (a plummeting economy and soaring inflation) and double digit interest rates and double digit unemployment rates.
I gave you an inch and you decide to go for the mile. Classy as usual.
What market control do you speak of? The part where 26% of our current work force are employed by government at some level, the 30-40% total tax rate the fact that the federal debt, including future spending promises, makes personal debt look meaningless? Maybe it is the part where every building built, business opened and employee hired is subject to government regulation. Could it be the part where our current farm policy is the biggest trade policy complaint of third world governments because it is the primary factor in keeping their population from bringing themselves out of poverty by reducing the prices they can get for their farm products to a level where they can’t make a living and have to hope for a job at the Nike factory?
The idea that the current problems are due to market forces is like thinking you are going to get yourself out of a hole by digging faster and the guy who put you down there is doing you a favor by getting you a bigger shovel.
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/41192/
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/10/Dobbs.Oct11/index.html
http://www.jimgilliam.com/2004/08/bushs_war_on_the_middle_class.php
just a small sampling of what most of the country is up against and what free marketeers will, in no way, fix
Richard,
First Article: when the author talk about poverty rates he fails to mention anything about how many of those people are in those income brackets only temporarily. I am not saying poverty does just that numbers like the one in this article are dubious at best. As for the point that people would be fine paying a few cents extra so that the person cashing them out can have health insurance I think the idea is just great. Those people have that options if they choose to exercise it. Health care being attached to your job is an old problem that started with government regulation during WWII and since we are a moderately free country yet it is true many jobs are “at will”. I have should have the right to work anywhere I can convince someplace to hire me and not be forced to join a union. As for forcing private companies to operate by democratic process I guess if you believe that is a good idea you must really be smoking some good stuff. Remember that the thing about a free society, somewhat embodied in the concept of our democratic republic, are the very strict limits on the power of the majority. For the central power to force at the point of a gun how individuals make mutually consenting arrangements is authoritarian enough to make G.W. Bush look like Gandhi. The suggestion to raise the corporate income tax is funny because businesses, not being people cannot really pay taxes. Those costs will most likely be passed on to the consumers. The article rambles a lot and uses number without context or citation so it is hard to rationally counter it’s mix of points. If you had a few in particular you thought important let me know.
Second Article: While Lou Dobbs is really just the populist version of Bill O’Reilly the problem of lobbyists is the simplest one for really free market reform to take care of. If the government cannot play favorites by providing tax breaks for or contracts to individuals or businesses the lobbyists go away. Nobody is going to pay a lobbyist to try to influence elected officials that can’t do anything for them. I know you love regulation and centralized authority over our lives but Dobbs is just a talking head without a brain inside.
Third Article: I’m not a fan of Bush and never have been. Neither have I been a fan of the tax system in it’s current form. Simple wealth redistribution though is fundamentally counter to a free society. If you are worried about creating a safety net for everybody in our country I can get behind a good system to do that.
In the end though all of the articles you posted don’t show anything I said to be incorrect. Everything we do right now is under government control. Why do you think more of it will solve anything? Let me know how socialism will solve the problems you see.
Richard,
I’m not sure what you mean when you use the term “Fair Trade” since it is nothing but a hollow buzz phrase but in response I think this article does a good job showing the effects of those types of ideas. They even cite their sources! http://www.freetrade.org/node/523
One more http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3316
Oh god, please not the Cato Institute. A bigger bin of corporate loonies doesn’t exist in the known universe. Libertarianism’s font of corportist apologists. Fair trade is not any more a hollow phrase then free trade. Neither really exist but are only goals that can be worked toward. For instance:
I have should have the right to work anywhere I can convince someplace to hire me and not be forced to join a union.
Minnesota is a right to work state and you have the right not to join a Union. Now, let’s say I’m a Union member and I’ve just come off of a 4 month long strike and the Union has managed to gain substantial increases in wages and benefits. You hire in at those wages and decline to join the Union. How should I feel about that? I pay dues, you don’t. I fought for wages and benefits that you receive but didn’t do a thing for. Is that fair?
Poverty
Good topic. What’s a Libertarian’s responsibility within society? How much should a good free marketeer contribute to those unlucky or unable to benefit from the marketplace? Anything at all? If children are starving in the street, is that the responsibility of anyone other then the children’s parents? They could, no doubt, get jobs and feed their offspring. We can’t feed all the poor. Or, do we all have a resposibility to make society benefit everyone, if not equally then more equatibly. How about we make sure every child has access to a physician or a decent amount of food every day. How about we invest in our cities so we don’t have pockets of lawlessness and poverty in the richest nation on the planet. Will the free market be able to handle that? Where and when has the free market ever benefitted society as a whole and not just the extreme top percentage?
Richard,
You may not like Cato and have valid points were you disagree but they are more respected than any of the sources you cited. For one they actually do independent scientific research and have multiple monthly forums where they invite, and often get, some of the best minds that oppose their point of view. If you can give me specific examples of the “apologist loonies” views of which you speak I would be happy to see them because I do not always agree with Cato. What I have seen is that they tend to denounce just about every form of corporate welfare as well as the war in Iraq. They also get more than 75% of their funding from individuals, a better rate than most political campaigns. How much of Lou Dobbs’ funding comes from individuals?
Actually free trade is a definable concept. It is trade across boarders without quotas, tariffs or other fees or interference. See, simple enough to fit into one sentence. What is “fair trade”? Should be interesting since fair is about as concrete a term as “nice” or “small”.
Ah yes the delusion of a right to work state. Sure a person can work at a location with joining the union but they would not have the right negotiate with the owner(s)on their own. This means they have fewer rights then those working at a location that has no union. Some “right to work”.
As for poverty, like I said in my previous post I am for a well designed safety net. If you are really interested I will give you the details. If you aren’t I won’t waste your time.
Richard,
You said, “Minnesota is a right to work state and you have the right not to join a Union.” That is false. Minnesota is NOT a right to work state, even though we should be. Nobody should have to join a private organization (ie. a union) to work. If I ever had to join a union to have a job, I would challenge the law on Freedom of Assembly grounds. I should not be compelled to join some group I don’t agree with in order to work. If you want to see which states are right to work and which states are forced union membership, click the following link:
http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm
As for the rest of your comments, we have plenty of social programs and safety nets in our society. There is no reason for anyone to go hungry in our country. We actually advertise for people to take food stamps. What has been of concern to me is the homeless issue. One of the reasons for homelessness is mental illness. We’ve stopped putting people with severe mental illness in institutions where they can be given medication and be properly cared for. We decided, apparently, that it was more compassionate to let them all out so they can live on the streets, not have medication and starve. That issue is one example of liberals having more compassion than common sense.
It is trade across boarders without quotas, tariffs or other fees or interference.
That’s easy enough to understand. But, to what purpose? I’m guessing the answer to that might be, “To maximize profits.” Again, easy enough to understand. Profit is the purpose of every business activity. There’s nothing at all wrong with that either but, the effects of profit can lead to costs not borne by the right people. Fair trade tries to make sure labor, enviromental, and social standards are maintained in the course of business activity. Amnesty International, Oxfam, and Caritas International are all good sources of information on Fair Trade.
Just for your information and amusement purposes.
Minnesota is not a Right to Work for less state. If the employer you chose to work for is organized by a union you can join the union and have the right to vote on the collective bargaining agreement, for union officers, on dues increases and all other aspects of the organization. You can also choose NOT to join the union and pay what is called an agency fee. You have all the rights of members for grievance and arbitration procedures but you DO NOT have the right to vote on the CBA or in Union elections. Thirdly you can elect to be a dues objector and only pay the part of you dues that goes towards negotiations and enforcement of the CBA (Beck decisions).
The National Right to Work committee is an organization supported by Business interests to thwart unionism. People band together to unionize because their employers treat them unfairly, pay low wages, discriminate etc. No union can organize and employer who treats it’s employees fairly. Without abusive employers there would be no unions. Strangely while no CEO or executive would work without a contract spelling out the terms and conditions of employment, they expect their workers to do so.
Rick,
You said, “People band together to unionize because their employers treat them unfairly, pay low wages, discriminate etc. No union can organize and employer who treats it’s employees fairly. Without abusive employers there would be no unions.”
Does that mean that our state agencies, schools, cities, police station, fire halls, etc. pay low wages, discriminate and abuse people? Because the number one unions in the country in terms of membership are all government unions.
Well it is government. They are the all time kings of abuse and discrimination.
Union’s are a good idea for every employee and every employer. You work out a contract and agree upon wages, benefits, production levels so everyone prospers. What could be more fair?
Richard,
It isn’t fair. Because I’m getting lumped in with a group of other people who may be getting more pay than I am just because they’ve been there longer than me. There is nothing more unfair than being paid for length of time instead of being paid for quality of performance. Why should a new teacher make less than a teacher that’s worked for 20 years if the new teacher has better skills and does a better job in the classroom?
Chris you truely are a moron. A new fresh faced youth comes into a law office and you want to pay him more the twenty year veteran? Good luck with the whole mentoring thing.
Richard,
With all due respect to teachers, a lawyer is way different from a teacher. A lawyer fresh out of law school probably isn’t ready for complex litigation without some court room experience. But some of the best teachers I’ve seen are young teachers who are willing to spend long hours mentoring their students - they are people who aren’t jaded by the whole education system and are wanting to make a difference in someone’s life. In my own experiece, the worst teachers I’ve had were the ones ready for retirement — they just didn’t care anymore.
Although, age really doesn’t have that much to do with my point. My point is that you should pay people for performance not just because they punched a clock for x number of years. If I am a better teacher than my colleague, why shouldn’t I get paid more money?
Chris O’Lielly,
You have such an impressively name-dropping life experience that you expose here frequently that it becomes suspect when those personal experiences of yours always, always seem to fit your agenda when discussing issues here. The reply you just posted is full of those personal experiences of yours, although this time your post does not include getting elbowed, thank god.
Why are you a credible source? Who are you Chris? I’m not hiding, why do you hide? What are you hiding?
It would be easy for someone with an agenda to make up facts about personal experiences to try to win debates on a blog. They are called trolls. Many of your posts here suggest that you are either someone very very high on the Republican food chain here in Minnesota, or are full of crap.
Can you give us a source, a name, something more? I think you have been anonymous here long enough.
Richard,
Sometimes a new employee is worth a lot more than a veteran. Life isn’t as linear or simple as you make it out to be. You might be right in the world where a person bolts widgets together for their whole life but that is only one type of job and not realistic when technology changes as fast as it does. Being in a creative field I know I would often look to hire younger people just because they have a more current sense of trends, design and technology. Also, I know a lot of people that do great work in one field and then after a few years get bored and try something else. They get to their new jobs and can be more valuable than people that have been there for years because of experiences that those people don’t have. Unions tend to over simplify the value of a person to their employer and force people to follow a career path that was design by a committee. They reduce freedom in exchange for the perception of security. Kinda like the economic version of the Patriot Act.
If people want to join and for unions I have no problem with it. They just shouldn’t be given a status different than those of us who choose not to join.
Nitro,
I don’t know about Chris but some people have a reason to keep a low profile. I have close friends and relatives that work for the DFL that have asked me to keep my name private because they fear what might happen to them at work. I also have a job that involves a lot of interaction with city government in Minneapolis and the local council people are not above giving their approval for what you are doing based on nothing other than if they like your politics and/or are willing to donate generously to their “campaigns”.
Government, and the two parties, have an immense amount of power and are not afraid of using it. Many of the most important publications during the American Revolution were published without real names. There is nothing wrong with it.
Well OK I agree somewhat, Kerosene, however, in that case one should limit the amount of stories that can’t be cross referenced.
But my main point was to point out a pattern of behavior, that’s all. It is suspect.
~Bosnian Proverb “No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar.”
I agree that stories, from anybody, that can not be confirmed should be taken with a grain of salt. I guess should be true for all information we consume. We probably all forget that sometimes.
Nitro:
Who are you to talk about any kind of pattern of behavior when your own pattern of behavior is repulsive. You can’t handle discussing issues so you call anyone who disagrees with you a liar. You can’t handle talking about facts so you post talking points from brain dead left wing kook web sites. I just hope you don’t teach your children to live this way. I’d really feel sorry for them if you did.
I agree.
There are some sources on the left that are suspect, like the Wayne Madsen report, or Capitol Blue.
When a wesite posts nothing but actual quotes and actions of those on the right, and lists cross references, video clips, and audio clips of those on the right, a factual record of what the right wing is doing, I find that to be credible. It is THEIR OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS.
Too frequently, due to the actions of the right wing spin machine, this information is discredited, even though conveying this information simply is trying to inform the public about what Republicans are doing and saying.
No matter how you feel about this, unless the internet becomes legislated and filtered, the information will always be there. More and more people learn this information every day. Actual videos and actual clips of what the righties say and do will become more and more circulated, and there’s no stopping it.
For example this:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/24/bill-kristol-on-the-today-show-surge-on/
Or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqWaIhvFbeM
Or this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200708230008?f=h_top
These are just today’s hot ones.
Every day I am deluged with Republican videos and clips. That’s why I have the opinions I have. That’s why my Mom (72 years old) cries. That’s why I’m not going away.
And certainly, that’s why the Republican party needs to work on their credibility issues. I hope they do, I really truly do. It would be best for all of us if we strive for truth, rather than lie because everyone else does.
Chris O’Lielly,
“brain dead left wing kook web sites”
lols you posted that while I was writing the last comment.
Nice “name call” that proved my point, pally.
Why are you credible again?
Can you explain to me why, Chris O’Lielly, Bill Kristol has any credibility whatsoever?
He has been wrong again and again and again, yet he is rolled out like some kind of “expert”. He is consistently, predictably wrong.
Is it merely because he is an expert talking point repeater?
Nitro:
I’m not the one who came up with the ridiculous story that your van got shot at by some right wing crazy. Funny how you can tell stories and we’re supposed to believe them. But when I talk generally about two teachers I had that really sucked because they were about to retire and didn’t care anymore, that’s beyond belief???
P.S. Considering you call me “Chris O’Lielly” every time you post, you have no room to whine about name calling. Weren’t you the one who called me a “Pussy” a few comments back too? Is that how you talk to your wife and children, Nitro? It just shows what a baby you are that you can dish it out but you can’t take it. Typical liberal.
Name calling was your forte here and still is Chris O’Lielly, and besides, don’t you stand behind Bill.
I don’t need to rehash my van getting shot. Apparently the photos, the story, and my wife and I both witnessing it aren’t enough for you. Well that’s fine. What makes me and you different is that you know who I am, you can find my wife, my wifes brothers, my brother and sister, and ebven with a little dig find the story about the shooting, as well as the police report. There’s plenty of info on youtube about me and my wife and family and our lives, just dig around.
You are anonymous. I am and open book at the risk of me and my family in the face of those who would act like the terrorists they condemn to silence me. I am the opposite of the scared lemmings that either run from or kill anyone in a burka.
What I am pointing out about you is your credibility issues, not mine.
So again I ask you AnonyChris, why are you so credible?
The fact that you attack me, call me horrible names and rant & rave whenever I post a comment proves my credibility Nitro.
If the story you claim about your van is true, it begs the question: What names did you call that man, Nitro, that made him shoot your van? Did you call him a Pussy? Did you tell him to go get Fucked? What did you say to him? You’re right, if I gave a damn I could find out who you are and who your family is and whatever. Maybe you should think of that before you say such hateful and defamatory things about other people.
The accuracy of that comment is as accurate as you are here, Chris. Don’t forget, I have a Stallone-iish attitude, and that a long time ago you decided to frequently call people names here, attacking people, ranting and raving and caling people horrible names. A search through the acrchives would show you doing that before I even posted here. I know Kathy might have some thoughts on that.
You have cut down quite a bit,to your credit, but you know what, your actions have consequences. They last many years down the road. You lost my respect because of your actions and have not gotten any respect in return from me, I’ll fully admit that. That was my response to you, and it continues to be.
I would hope in the future you think twice before resorting to name caling to make your points on any blog. I don’t do it lightly, or without remorse, but I am like an elephant, I can’t forget about your actions here when I just got angry and kept my mouth shut many months ago. Remember the next person you attack here might be the next “Nitro”.
Unfortunately many who you have attacked here recently have never returned. I wish they would come back, a lot of what they were saying contributed to the debate.
“Mission Accomplished”, right Chris. Great Job!
Nitro,
How can you have a Stallone-ish attitude? Sylvester Stallone is a REPUBLICAN!!!
“Made him shoot your van”>
It makes me curious Chris, since you and your name calling ways can’t take what you dish out.
Would you like to pull that trigger? What about Swiftee, would he?
Why would you let words cause you to think killing is justified? Do you have ANY IDEA what it’s been like to be a Liberal in America the last 6 years? It has been your leadership that tries to compare us to terrorists, and encourages the hatred. Everyone on the Left is QUITE aware of that.
“You drew first blood” said Stallone. I don’t care what his politics are.
Back to teachers and lawyers. Anecdotal evidence aside, the best teachers in our education system are the most experienced. Young teachers come into the system and look to the veterans for mentoring and inspiration. They can have new ideas but experience will allow them to interact and connect more effectively.
a lawyer is way different then a lawyer.
Absolutely true. A teacher is much more important to society. You should’ve paid more attention in your composition class. You have the writing style of a 12 year old.
Richard,
I like the way you dismiss anecdotal evidence and then in the very next sentence use anecdotal evidence. Few people could pull that off with such ease. I guess closing with a insults and bigotry makes it all better though.
Just in case you don’t know what anecdotal means.
an·ec·do·tal
‚adjective
1. pertaining to, resembling, or containing anecdotes: an anecdotal history of jazz.
2. (of the treatment of subject matter in representational art) pertaining to the relationship of figures or to the arrangement of elements in a scene so as to emphasize the story content of a subject. Compare narrative (def. 6).
3. based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.
based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.
I’m not sure you understand the meaning of this word. I was speaking of a large group. Statistically speaking, there is no doubt younger teachers lack the experiance to interact and connect as effectively as more experianced teachers. Common sense. Chris was talking about his personal history. Anecdotal evidence. No insults, no bigotry, a simple statement of facts. Are you maintaining lawyers are more important to society then teachers? Are you maintaining Chris’s writing style is not immature? If I ever hear my lawyer describe something as “way different”, I will immediately leave.
Richard,
Leaving aside your insults, you must be a public school teacher if you’re actually defending the system we have now.
It just goes to show that I’m winning the argument when Richard and Nitro have to resort to attacking style or calling names as opposed to actually answering the subject at hand.
Richard,
You have no statistics and didn’t even pretend to use any which means your statement is anecdotal. Just because your ASSUMPTION involve large groups does not make it scientific or statistically valid. It is therefore anecdotal. The fact that most of what is posted on blogs or in the paper or on the news is anecdotal doesn’t change the definition of the word.
I never said lawyers or teachers were more important because generalization of groups is small minded and pointless. Neither you or I are smart enough to define the value of people, especially simply based on what job they do. Remember that you are talking about people not just job titles. It is that attitude in part that defines you as bigot.
big·ot
n. One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
I am also less concerned with style of writing, whether it is Nitro Swiftee or you, than content. When you say “writing style of a 12 year old” you cannot claim it to be a fact. It is opinion and and insulting one. It is fine to have the opinion but at least have the strength to admit that that is what it is and not pretend to be stating fact.
Kerosene Hat,
Great comments. Richard is typical of a lot of liberals. When they don’t have facts or logic to back up their arguments, they question the intelligence of the person they are debating. If Richard was as erudite as he claims, he would not have to resort to ad hominem attacks.
AS far as import, how many lawyers would there be if there were no teachers? How many teachers would there be if there were no lawyers? Point set and match.
Bigotry, the thing about tolerance, for me, is that it must be a two way street. Respect my opinion and I will respect yours. Say something asinine though like, “a lawyer is way different then a lawyer.” then you’re going to get called on it. I understand why we’re focusing on the defination and use of “anecdotal” because I am actually sympathetic to you and your attempt to defend an indefensible position. I feel your pain but it’s weak sauce. This thread started out with Coleman/Bush staging a fund raiser and morphed into a free trade fair trade then union vs anti union, until now we find ourselves defining sentence structure. No response to fair trade seeking to maintain labour standards vs free trade seeking to maintain exploitation in the name of maximizing profits. But again, trying to defend the indefensible is tough so go ahead, change the subject. I don’t really mind.
Sorry, the above should read, “a lawyer is way different then a teacher”
Richard,
You have yet to respond to almost every point I have made while I have responded to every one of yours. If there are specifics where you feel this is not true let me know and I will correct it. You have yet define what fair trade is or what mechanisms you would like a response to. You pat yourself on the back for agreeing to your own arguments (game, set, match my ass). Things get to the point of sentence structure because if you cannot use words in a fraudulent manor or choose to lie and make up things and then call them facts what point is there in talking about international economics?
The subject switched when you decided to challenge an opinion of mine about Kucinich’s economic views while I was giving the respect of being at least an honest and forthright person and my number 2 choice for president. You did as much or more to change the subject then anybody.
In the end Richard it is your position that demands that government use force to control what people do. That means it is up to you to at the very least prove these policies work. Just like it was the responsibility for the Bush administration to prove invading Iraq was necessary. Failure to demand this before government action is irresponsible and results in disaster. Unless of course you prefer authoritarian governments.
Say something asinine though like, “a lawyer is way different then a lawyer.”
Asinine, indeed, Richard.
P.S.
Your comment, “How many lawyers would there be if there were no teachers” is equally asinine. How many teachers (or lawyers, for that matter) would there be without mothers? Give me a break. I take it, Richard, that you are a teacher and that you think nothing is more important in the world than teachers.
Now Chris wants to talk about biology, damn it’s getting hard to keep up.
KH, Fair trade tries to make sure labor, enviromental, and social standards are maintained in the course of business activity. Amnesty International, Oxfam, and Caritas International are all good sources of information on Fair Trade.
Free trade, by your defination maintains none of the above. Maximize profits is the sole mantra of the free marketeer. If I can get my widget made by employees making .12 cents an hour, almost perfect. In fact, if I can get my widget made by employees for nothing, even better.
One last indicator on effectiveness of veteran teacher vs. rookies and who should get paid more. The average years of experiance by the teachers who’ve won major awards both statewise and nationally. I have no idea, but I’m guessing it’s more then 1. Another point to consider, employee turnover is a major cost of quality item in manufacturing. Paying for loyalty is cheaper then paying for constantly training new employees. Same with the education system. You will also get a higher quality, more consistant product by retaining employess. That’s quantifiable and measurable. Now for my anecdotal evidence, I am not a teacher but I am a parent and my dealings with the teachers my kids have come in contact with has been, almost without exception, positive. Magnificently dedicated, driven, creative, fun, and enthusiastic. The new ones always looked to the older ones for guidence and help. One of our more experianced educators, in fact, won a national award in her field. I remember when her younger colleague started and he has definately shown the effects of her mentoring.
How many lawyers would there be without mothers? I’m not sure, do snakes really “have” mothers?
That’s wasn’t fair, I’m sorry. I officially apologize to all snakes.
Richard,
Globally over the entire course of human history the states (countries) with the freest trade have a strong tendency to be the wealthiest. The protectionist trade practices like those of the United States and Europe in farm goods is a primary reason many people in third world countries can not break free from poverty. Your preferred system attempts to protect your friends at the cost of the livelihood and survival of people just because they live across a boarder or two. Maybe we should just invade other countries so we can enforce your will and standards on them. I guess why bother if you can just starve them into compliance.
Protectionism for often hurts one industry in the name of helping another. Protecting the steel industry from “dumping” hurt the auto industry because they ended up paying more for steel than their competition. Your version of protecting American industry will only cause it to fail and do nothing to help workers or the environment in other countries. Plus, the biggest factor in environmental impact is a populations consumption. Simply bringing the worlds average up to U.S. standards is not such a good idea for our planet.
You want to help the planet and workers than buy local foods, live close to where you work, don’t have kids and try to buy everything from companies that have policies you agree with. That is what I try to do. I just draw the line and promoting an authoritarian use of force to get other to comply with my views.
Think globally, spend locally. Great, but what about Monsanto or Ford or Dow Chemical. American companies that operate in foreign countries. Could the US government insist if you operate facilities in foreign countries, you comply with US standards on labour, enviromental, and social standards. Doesn’t seem too difficult and it would be the most fair system. It’s not protectionism as much as insisting on moral and ethical behavior from business.
Richard,
Moral and ethical behavior from business, huh? Why aren’t these countries setting their own standards for labor, environmental and social policies? Why is it okay to impose American standards of behavior on their environmental policies but its not okay to say that Iran and Syria should stop sponsoring terrorism?
As for your snake comment, all I can say is my comments must have been spot on becuase you couldn’t think of something intelligent to reply back with, instead opting for yet another ad hominem attack.
So which standards do you mean? Our minimum wage (at an absolute amount or relative to local costs?)? Our overtime rules? Which states laws? Our collective bargaining laws maybe? Even if that were to happen the rules are easy to get around by companies spinning off partially owned subsidiaries that are operated out of another country that provides the needed service. You could make another law I suppose but whatever it would be would be avoided once again. Unless you control the country in which the business exists your method will be pointless. Once again your version demands a heavy authoritarian hand, this time in another country. I guess we could start in Iraq.
Why do you think our laws are so much better than what can exist in any other country that we should try to impose them on their population? What would keep the Chinese government from taxing the higher wages of U.S. company employees to the point they get no more than anybody else? All that would do is help fund the Chinese government. The idea of imposing U.S. standards on employees in other countries is just the latest wrapping on the old package of protectionism. The real goal of which is to make it unattractive for companies in the U.S. to invest in other countries for fear they will move jobs there and weaken unions. U.S. unions are not actually interested in th e welfare of foreign workers. They are businesses like any other and in the end are most concerned with survival of the union.
Once again Richard I have responded to your points directly after you have failed to do so with mine.
KH,
I wish people like Richard were as concerned about how the Chinese Communists treat their citizens with respect to human rights, freedom of speech and religion and other liberties. Unfortunately all too many get worked up over “corporate” abuses and don’t give a damn about whether the people are living freely or not.