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What, if anything, is this going to change?
Rove was the foremost expert in political calculus. He was able to help Bush gain and maintain control of more power than any executive since F.D.R.. The fact that they used the power to promote the disastrous neo-con agenda is another story all together.
What Rove represents is the ultimate result we get when we worry more about winning elections, counting votes and picking sides than governing.
To answer your question Randy, not a lot in the short term but the long term consequences will be a ratcheting back of the effort to establish a fascist single party government. Rove, a student of Atwater, worked to expand the power of the executive branch to historically unprecidented levels.
“I’ve got to do this for the sake of my family” said Rove.
I’m sure teaching your family to lie and cheat with no consequences takes a lot of “hands on” parenting. For example, if Andrew gets a failing grade in civics class, it takes a lot of time and effort to blame the teacher and ruin the teachers career.
I’m sure Andrew will have a bright future ahead of him.
Do I detect some sour grapes here? Karl Rove is no better or worse than James Carville or any administration’s political operative. I’ve met Rove on 3 or 4 occasions and he’s one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet. I’ve also met Carville on two occasions and he’s a nice guy too even though he’s constantly ripping out the throats of the people I support. There are a lot of decent people in politics. Just because they disagree with your agenda doesn’t mean they are bad people.
No sour grapes here, just relief that one more felon is leaving the White House. Here’s Joe Wilson’s reaction.
“Karl Rove’s resignation signals the final chapter in the Bush administration’s betrayal of the identity of a covert CIA officer. When this breach of national security occurred, the President promised the American people that anybody in his administration responsible for the leak would be removed. Rove, identified by the prosecutors as one of the leakers, not only was not summarily dismissed, but has been allowed to leave on his own terms, to praise from the President. This sordid tale of compromising national security to cover-up and distract from the false rationale for the invasion of Iraq will forever remain in history a black mark on the Bush presidency”
How much longer will Rove be able to dodge testifying? Are charges of treason in the future for Rove? If we can wait a few months, President Clinton will be able order an investigation and there won’t be any commutation of the sentence.
Who actually leaked the name of Valerie Wilson? Oh, that’s right, it was Richard Armitage. In fact, nobody including Armitage, was prosecuted for disclosing her name. Nice try, Richard!
P.S. Richard,
You shouldn’t be calling people felons who were not even charged, let alone convicted, of a crime.
It was Armitage AND Rove AND Libby who leaked her name. Nice try, Chris!
SeanH,
That’s not true. The leak was by Richard Armitage and was published by Robert Novak. Novak testified to the leak. Novak was the only journalist who published her name.
GOPbot
I don’t think we’ve seen the end of the case. In a few months, President Obama will be able to call for a special investigation into the more treasonous aspects of this case and without the protection of the current felon-and-chief, Rove will very likely be forced to testify. He will probably lie under oath so he’s likely to spend a good bit of his future in a prison cell. Hopefully that will be just a few cells down from his boss.
Rove does not emerge from the investigation unscathed, however. His credibility took a hit inside and outside the White House when he allowed then-Bush spokesman Scott McClellan to tell reporters that he had no role in the unmasking of Plame, the CIA officer at the center of the leak scandal. The investigation has shown that, in a one-week period in 2003, Rove spoke to two reporters about Plame and her CIA role, then reported back to other senior White House officials, according information publicly released by Fitzgerald and by sources familiar with the case.
No GOPbot, you’re wrong again. As I have urged many times in the past, try and get something right. A little research never killed anyone. I guess GOPbots weren’t programed to spew anything other then GOP talking points. How do you feel about defending a traitor? Probably not all that bad if you support the deserter Bush.
Well actually it IS true Chris. Rove leaked to Matthew Cooper and confirmed Armitages info to Novak. So that is TWO times he illegally discussed that info. Libby leaked to Miller.
The White House, through spokesman Scott McClellan, previously said anyone involved in the leak would be fired.
“I would like this to end as quickly as possible so we know the facts, and if someone committed a crime they will no longer work in my administration,” Bush said.
Apparently this administration doesn’t consider treason a crime.
The Plame leak is interesting as it epitomizes the type of thinking Rove represents. The case has Democrats locked on to it because it keeps the spotlight on the one thread of an excuse they have for voting for the war in Iraq and every funding request since. The problem is that even if the uranium story were true and verifiable they had no good reason to go to war and if they story did not exist at all most of the Democrats would have made the same mistake and voted to allow the war. In the end the Democrats can blame somebody else for the votes they are making and the Republicans get to continue on they path they set 6 years ago. It is the perfect Rovian set-up where even when he loses the Republicans win.
KH, the Plame leak case had nothing to do with Niger and uranium except has a reason why it began. Regardless of context, the leaking of a secret CIA operatives name is a crime of treason. The fact that Plame’s name was leaked as a punitive response to Joe Wilson’s column which laid bare the White House’s lies leading to war really doesn’t matter. The administration purposely disclosed information which degraded our nations national security for political reasons. Tell me please, where the Democratic party has done that?
I never said the Democrats did. Did you read that in my post somewhere or are you making things up again? I agree that the Plame leak was a breech of national security and those responsible should be held accountable. I doubt they will be no matter who is elected next.
Did you ask me that just because you didn’t have response to the actual content of my post?
The case has Democrats locked on to it because it keeps the spotlight on the one thread of an excuse they have for voting for the war in Iraq and every funding request since.
I assume that’s the main thrust of your post.
Regardless of context, the leaking of a secret CIA operatives name is a crime of treason.
That’s what the Democrats are, appropriately focused on.
As far as the Democratic Senators vote on the war, I would submit first of all, they weren’t given accurate intelligence information from the CIA. They were given reports filtered through the OSP which cherry picked intelligence and included information from very dubious sources. In effect, they were lied to. Secondly, the context of the vote included Bush’s assurances of using invasion as a last resort and that he would exhaust every diplomatic solution possible before sending in troops. In effect, they were lied to twice. Thankfully Minnesota was represented by Paul Wellstone who saw through the smoke and mirrors and despite what must have been enormous political pressure voted against the resolution.
Wellstone didn’t have to see through all the smoke and mirrors because he rightly knew the role of the legislative branch and did not want to abdicate his responsibility like his cohorts did. He and the few others smart enough to not vote for the war resolution also know that no matter if the evidence was fabricated or not it was not reason to invade another country. The Democrats that voted for the war and it’s funding are now looking for excuses that will get them off the hook for not doing their jobs. The fact that there were a few like Kucinich, Paul and Wellstone make that point even more clear. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton the worst offender in this regard is the Democratic front runner.
Rove is leaving because his work is done. He Beat John Kerry and Al Gore in races either could have, and Kerry should have won. The president’s adgenda is shaped by a Democrat senate and House. There’s not much for Carl to do.
I know you wont like to hear this, but Georgee W. Bush is not running for anything in 2008 and can never be President again. No, not even Jeb, not even in 12. Republicans are Bushed out. It must give you great pain to see Rove go. Soon Cheny and the whole bunch will be gone.
I found it interesting that the first reaction from the left was to reassure each other that they could always call Rove in for testimony.
Rove did a heck of a job in defining each base and motivating them. The problem with segmentation politics is that the higher the fences you put around your base, the harder it is to grow it. A problem for both parties and an unbelievable opportunity for a third party movement.
Well said KH. The facts were out there for those who had the gumption to look for them, and took the time to read through the pages of bogus evidence that were handed to them. Bird, love him or hate him, was one of the only Senators to actually read the entire Patriot Act before voting, as in example.
Richard: You are wrong about the Niger connection. Joe Wilson was in Niger, investigating the “yellowcake” rumor. He was openly going against the Administration. As a payback, his wife was outed. Simple as that. Even without that part of the story, it is indeed a crime, just on the basis of outing an agent.
I don’t want to see Rove testify. I want to see him charged, tried, convicted, and sentenced to spend the next 30 years in jail. Rove did a heck of a job ruining the Republican party. He and his mentor Atwater, have done more to damage the security of this country then terrorists could do in a hundred years. After the investigations get rolling, it’ll be 20 years of Democratic party rule. You can thank the criminal Rove and the Bush crime family for that.
A35, read my post again. It had nothing to do with Niger, outing a CIA operative is a crime of treason. Joe Wilson came back from Niger, wrote a column that exposed the administration’s dishonesty and she was outed as a result. That’s why it happened and that shouldn’t have any bearing on the crime itself.
Great, one cult of ideologues for another. The point to my post that seemed to escape you Richard is that Rove was the most recent, most talented and best known operative in our continued slide into focusing on winning election rather than holding our representatives accountable. You and so many other Democrats, and Republicans as well, are afraid that if you admit the mistakes made by your candidates you will loose the election. This trumps all sense of honor, fairness or honesty. It is this attitude that has created the perfect environment for Rove and his ilk to gain such unprecedented power.
Kerosene Hat,
Great posts, I 100% agree that to move our great Country forward we need to focus on solving problems rather than worrying about winning elections. This is not a partisan issue. Hillary is still a cog in that machine as much as any rightie.
Richard,
Do you and the rest of your friends here not get that it is over? Rove is gone.
As much as you would love to enlarge his ominous shadow, it now is just what it is…A was.
Nobody cares about Plame anymore. Scooter got got. For um…what?
She and her husband will write a book apiece more and speak for exactly 12 more months for money.
Do you really think people will be caring about Plame next fall, or Rove, or for that matter Bush? Those north of 32% will have moved on and forgotten.
Take a poll to see how many people know who Lee Atwater was.
As Wayne Gretzky says “It’s not where the puck is. It is where the puck is going.”
Later.
As I recall, Lee Atwater was the idiot Republican wonk who played guitar and died of brain cancer. I thank God for calling him Home.
I was surprised to hear Rove was planning to ‘spend more time with his family.’ Frankly, I was surprised to hear he had a family. Given he has a son, apparently his wife had sex with him at least once. Eeeuuuww. I’m a moderate conservative but from a purely female personal opinion I have to say, he looks like a pig. And a draft-dodging one at that.
I’m with purpledogblog - happy he’s moving on.
Is that Karl’s pet moonbat there on his shoulder? That is very appropriate since if he had any “powers of necromancy” it would be the power to bring even the most virulent moonbat to heel.
Say what you will, the man is very, very good at what he does.
Hey Sally, do you have a manager or are you a freelance cunt for hire?
You’re not a woman (or are you?) You wouldn’t understand just how repugnant this man’s personality makes him. I’m a pretty die-hard Republican but I prefer to be represented by someone with at least a modicum of integrity and it just ain’t him.
you liberals have no idea what people in my area think. I”m a real Minnesota conservative and you people are way off your rockers.
Swiftee - in spite of your crudity, I do agree with you that Rove was very good at what he did - which was doing whatever it took to get Bush elected and to increase and consolidate power in the executive branch. He was very good for Bush, but not so good for America.
Sally!! With someone looking like Karl Rove, one would have to have a bag over her head to have sex with him.
So sorry. The opportunity lended itself.
I am absolutely offended zach, Matt, and whomever else runs this blog that you let Swiftee’s comments through. I don’t care if you are a republican or a democrat, there is not enough adjectives in the dictionary to describe what an idiot he is.
SeanH and Richard,
Rove and Armitage didn’t do anything illegal. Nice try though, but your uninformed, hyperpartisan rhetoric just doesn’t mesh with the law. Don’t you think if it were illegal to disclose Plame’s name that Fitzgerald would have indicted Armitage and Rove?
Sally and Kathy,
I’m appalled that you would first, in Sally’s case, wish death on someone you disagree with. It shows how mean-spirited the left is in America. Since you mentioned it, Sally, I hope you get brain cancer and God takes you off the planet too. I really don’t wish it, though, because I don’t have a cold black heart like you apparently do. How would you like it, though, if someone wished that on you?
And then making fun of Rove for his appearance and his wife, for marrying him, is not only mean spirited, it’s shallow too. I hope you two never get a little too gray, gain a little too much weight, get too many wrinkles, etc. or maybe your hubands will run off on you or something. Why can’t any of you people actually talk about ideas without getting into personal attacks?
Kerosene Hat,
Apparently you’ve never studied history. To suggest Rove has had unprecedented power is simply uninformed. To suggest that Bush has too much executive power, is also uninformed. Look at the administrations of people like Lincoln and FDR and what they did with executive power.
Chris,
Notice that I said since F.D.R. in my comment about Bush. As for Rove his influence is not of the same kind as that of a elected official but it is every bit just as real. He was able to influence the Republican party to change itself from a fiscally conservative party supporting the truly republican ideals to a party that embraces federal power, spending and military activism. The Republican party is far different now than it used to be and Rove is a big reason for it. Places like the Cato Institute that used to support Republican ideas 80% of the time now spend a large amount of their time debunking neo-con bullshit.
“Don’t you think if it were illegal to disclose Plame’s name that Fitzgerald would have indicted Armitage and Rove?”
Chris, you are the one whos partisanship is leading you to ignore facts.
Libby’s obstruction, for which he was convicted, successfully prevented further prosecution.
The whole “no underlying crime” spin is pure B.S.
“I’m appalled that you would first, in Sally’s case, wish death on someone you disagree with.”
Chris - you’re not paying attention. First of all, I didn’t wish death on Atwater. There are some people that the world is better off without and I happen to think that Atwater was one of them. I wouldn’t have wished him dead but I’m not sorry that he is. It’s a fine line. His last minute death-bed conversion to decency and apologizing for his tactics in the 1988 presidential election (remember Willie Horton?) was a step in the right direction but too little too late. I feel the same way about Rove. And there are plenty of left-wingnuts that I feel the same way about. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with someone - I just happen to think that people who seemingly completely lack character and integrity are wasting space and resources on the planet.
“It shows how mean-spirited the left is in America.”
Not sure how you can draw this conclusion about the left from my remarks since I’m not the left. Seriously, there are plenty of us true conservatives who are not very happy with the current administration and are very happy to see Rove leave.
“And then making fun of Rove for his appearance and his wife, for marrying him, is not only mean spirited, it’s shallow too.”
Yup, it is. Both of those. I’ll bet you’ve never made fun of anyone about their looks, right? I stand by my personal opinion - the guy looks like a little pig, and his personality only makes him more disgusting. But they say there’s someone for everyone so more power to his wife for looking past it, I guess. Better her than me. (By the way, my husband is graying, balding, and slightly overweight and he’s still hot - at our age it’s all in the personality and character.)
SeanH,
That’s simply not true. If it were a crime to leak Plame’s name, why wasn’t Armitage prosecuted? From Day 1 of the investigation, Fitzgerlad knew that Armitage leaked the name of Plame to Robert Novak, the only journalist who printed the story about her. If it were illegal to leak Plame’s name, the case against Richard Armitage was open and shut. However, not only was Armitage not charged, he wasn’t even hauled in front of the grand jury.
Sean, if you look at the law, as a lawyer does, there was no doubt that Plame was not a covert agent. The person who drafted the law for Congress, Victoria Toensing, said Plame was not covert. She said, “The law prohibiting disclosure of a covert agent’s identity requires that the person have a foreign assignment at the time or have had one within five years of the disclosure, that the government be taking affirmative steps to conceal the government relationship, and for the discloser to have actual knowledge of the covert status.” Plame was not on foreign assignment within the last five years and the government was not taking affirmative steps to conceal her identity. She had a desk job at CIA headquarters in Langley, VA.
You can spin and say I’m wrong all you want. But the law is the law and the facts are the facts. The law says Plame was not covert and the facts say nobody has ever been charged for disclosing her name - including Richard Armitage who was Bob Novak’s source.
Sally,
My judgement of you hasn’t changed any from your post. In fact, it’s gotten worse. How can you say someone has a disgusting personality when you’ve never met him. I’ve met Carville and Rove both on several occasions and they are both some of the nicest guys you’d ever want to meet. Rove happens to be on my team whereas Carville wants to beat my team’s brains out. I think the personal attacks in politics are posioning our country. If you’re a conservative or a Republican Sally, and I don’t believe for one minute you are, I am not proud that you are on my team.
“Sean, if you look at the law, as a lawyer does, there was no doubt that Plame was not a covert agent. The person who drafted the law for Congress, Victoria Toensing, said Plame was not covert. She said, “The law prohibiting disclosure of a covert agent’s identity requires that the person have a foreign assignment at the time or have had one within five years of the disclosure, that the government be taking affirmative steps to conceal the government relationship, and for the discloser to have actual knowledge of the covert status.” Plame was not on foreign assignment within the last five years and the government was not taking affirmative steps to conceal her identity. She had a desk job at CIA headquarters in Langley, VA.”
WRONG!!! There was a Lawyer who looked at that and this is what he said.
“Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.
Valerie Wilson’s friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life.
The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It’s important that a CIA officer’s identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation’s security.
Valerie Wilson’s cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.
But Mr. Novak was not the first reporter to be told that Wilson’s wife, Valerie Wilson, Ambassador Wilson’s wife Valerie, worked at the CIA. Several other reporters were told.
In fact, Mr. Libby was the first official known to have told a reporter when he talked to Judith Miller in June of 2003 about Valerie Wilson”
That was a lawyer named Fitgerald.
In addition the CIA confirmed she was undercover
“[a]t the time of the leaks, Ms. Wilson in fact qualified as a ‘covert agent’ within the meaning of the IIPA [Intelligence Identities Protection Act].” To support this statement, Fitzgerald included an “unclassified summary” of Plame’s employment at the CIA — which had been given to Libby’s defense team in June 2006 — stating that the CIA “declassified and now publicly acknowledges the previously classified fact that Ms. Wilson was a CIA employee from 1 January 2002 forward and the previously classified fact that she was a covert CIA employee during this period.” The “unclassified summary” established that she had headed a counterproliferation operation focused on Iraq and had traveled overseas in an undercover capacity in the five years prior to the disclosure of her identity. Moreover, the Post itself reported on March 17 that during Plame’s testimony before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-CA), the committee’s chairman, read a statement that he said “was approved by Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the CIA’s director.” The Post added: “The statement said that Plame worked in a covert capacity at the time of Novak’s column and that her employment status was classified under an executive order.”
You are right about one thing: Facts are indeed Facts. Plame WAS undercover. Armitage, Rove and Libby all disclosed that information to reporters. Those ARE the facts.
Why didn’t Fitzgerald prosecute Armitage for leaking her identity. I am a lawyer too, and if I were Fitzgerald and believe what you quoted him as saying, I would have prosecuted Armitage. Fitzgerald didn’t and the reason many believe he didn’t is because he either couldn’t get an indictment on that issue or would have lost the case. Fitzgerald’s statement, which was made outside of court, doesn’t really count for anything. General Hayden is not a lawyer and cannot decide who is and who is not covert. One of the elements of Plame being covert or not covert is that she had to have been assigned outside the country in the last five years, she was not. Another element is that the Government had to actively protect her identity. They did not. Plame was not covert under the law.
Plame worked as an operations officer in the Directorate of Operations and was assigned to the Counterproliferation Division (CPD) in January 2002 at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.
The employment history indicates that while she was assigned to CPD, Plame, “engaged in temporary duty travel overseas on official business.” The report says, “she traveled at least seven times to more than ten times.” When overseas Plame traveled undercover, “sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias — but always using cover — whether official or non-official (NOC) — with no ostensible relationship to the CIA.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/
The director of the CIA can’t decide who is covert???? You are hilarious. Keep flailing bud. BTW, the law says “served” not “assigned”.
She was covert. End of story.
Chris, I’ll agree with you that ‘personality’ was the wrong term to use when I made my judgment - I’ve never met the guy - I’m judging Rove solely based on his actions, not his ability to charm. I stand by my opinion.
In spite of what you think, I am a conservative - but not a neo-con Republican. I’m completely frustrated by the direction the Republican party has taken in recent years. This administration has inserted big federal government into all kinds of places it has no business being. It has vilified science and knowledge. It has taught its citizens to live in fear. After 9/11, instead of taking world support and using it to help coordinate intelligence to fight real terrorists (and there are plenty), it entered into an unnecessary war which has sapped the economy and the morale of Americans. All of this was part of Rove’s (and others) plan to play to “the base” to win elections. I repeat what I said before - Rove was very good for Bush (he won) and very bad for America.
I’m grateful that the Republican candidates are distancing themselves from Bush and his policies - maybe a new Republican administration can turn things around and put things back onto a conservative track. I want to be proud of my country again but I can’t be proud of the current crop of leaders.
Sean,
Just because someone says another person is covert doesn’t mean that they are covert under the law. If she was covert under the law, why didn’t Fitzgerald prosecute anyone for leaking her identity?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/16/AR2007021601705.html
If she was covert under the law, why didn’t Fitzgerald prosecute anyone for leaking her identity?
Because Libby successfully obstructed justice.
I almost forgot - Kate, thanks for your support against Swiftee’s comments although I generally don’t pay him any attention. My parents taught me well that if you can’t get your point across without profanity, either you’re not very articulate or your point doesn’t have much validity (i.e. you have to use profanity to strengthen it).
SeanH,
Funny how Libby could obstruct justice for Richard Armitage, who was the source for Robert Novak. Armitage leaked her name to Novak and never needed a lawyer and wasn’t called in front of the grand jury. Explain to me, please, how Armitage escaped prosecution for leaking her name if she was covert under the law. If you can explain this, you’ll probably be in line for winning a Pulitzer prize or having a law review article published.
Sally,
That’s right, you don’t need profanity. You just call people names, insult their person and character and wish them death by terrible diseases.
Newsweek Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done “covert work overseas” on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA “was making specific efforts to conceal” her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge’s opinion.
It’s amazing what you can find if you look.
Plame was covert — just dial up Fitzgerald’s sentencing memorandum and scroll on down to page five.
Link:
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/files/sentencing_memo.pdf
“At the time of the leaks, Ms Wilson in fact qualified as a “covert agent” within the meaning of the IIPA.”
Chris says:
Armitage leaked her name to Novak and never needed a lawyer and wasn’t called in front of the grand jury.
Armitage had a lawyer and was called before the grand jury at least twice:
“Mr. Armitage, who came forward after Mr. Libby was indicted, was told in February 2006, after two grand jury appearances, he would not be indicted.”
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2006/9/15/what-a-load-of-armitage.html?s_cid=rss:barone:what-a-load-of-armitage
You can google this stuff.
Christine, I keep telling the GOPbot to try and get something right, but he is evidently incapable because of programming or maybe a damaged hard drive that keeps him from being able to access the reality files. All the GOPbots seem to be suffering the same dysfunction and keep repeating the same incorrect, inaccurate spew. The bot known as Swiftee needs the most work because of some kind of Tourette’s syndrome virus.
So Richard and Christine,
Why wasn’t Armitage, who actually leaked her name, indicted for the so-called crime? The reason, according to the article Christine fished up for me is because About Wilson, a serial liar, there is not really much more to say, and Toensing simply notes that Wilson confirmed that his wife, Valerie Plame, returned to the United States from a foreign assignment in 1997‚which means that disclosure of her identity in 2003 could not have been a crime under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, since that 1982 law covers only disclosures of the names of covert agents stationed abroad within five years of the revelation. Toensing also clears up any ambiguity as to whether Plame could have been a covert agent:
As the Senate negotiator for this 1982 act, I know a trip or two by Ms. Plame to a foreign country while assigned to Langley, where she worked in July 2003, is not considered a foreign assignment. I also know covert officers are not assigned to Langley.
Christine just answered her own question.
Christine,
You are correct that Armitage did go before the grand jury — as it had been a few years, I had forgotten that he had. However, he did not have a lawyer or even need one. In fact, Armitage bragged to people that he was told by Fitzgerald that he did not even need a lawyer:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/16/AR2007021601705_pf.html
“Intelligence Identities Protection Act, since that 1982 law covers only disclosures of the names of covert agents stationed abroad within five years of the revelation.”
Once again, the law says “served” not “stationed” or “assigned”
Armitage may not have thought he needed a lawyer but he had one:
“Mr. Armitage did not return calls for comment. But the lawyer and other associates of Mr. Armitage have said he has confirmed that he was the initial and primary source for the columnist…”
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00614F93A5A0C738FDDA10894DE404482
(charge for story but you can google the quote.)
Now your larger question was why he wasn’t charged for outing a covert CIA agent. In order to meet the IIPA criteria, Fitzgerald would have had to prove that someone had knowledge that a person was covert and malicious intent. Armitage identified Plame before he knew she was covert:
“Armitage himself was aggressively investigated by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, but was never charged. Fitzgerald found no evidence that Armitage knew of Plame’s covert CIA status when he talked to Novak and Woodward. “
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14533384/site/newsweek/page/2/
Also, the bar for IIPA was high enough that Fitzgerald didn’t charge anyone with violating the statute. He charge Scooter with fibbing under oath because that act was covering up Scooter’s own knowledge and intent.
“You just call people names, insult their person and character and wish them death by terrible diseases.”
Chris: Heavy sigh. One more time. I don’t know how to make this plainer. I don’t wish anyone dead - I just don’t miss them when they’re gone. Character is defined by actions and, given Rove’s actions, his character and integrity are nothing to emulate. He will do anything to win. I have no respect for him because he’s done nothing to earn that respect. I don’t like him and I’m glad he’s leaving the administration.
However, if you have to win, you can. Go ahead and have the last word. I’m done with you and Rove, thank God.
Sally,
Character is defined by someone’s actions. Anyone who rejoices in the painful death of another human being has no character. You’re really a sad excuse for a human being if you rejoice in the death of someone you disagree with politically. And I don’t care if you claim to be a Republican or whatever.
Sean and Christine,
The relevant portion of Ms. Toensend’s article, which is also the same as her testimony to Congress is, “As the Senate negotiator for this 1982 act, I know a trip or two by Ms. Plame to a foreign country while assigned to Langley, where she worked in July 2003, is not considered a foreign assignment. I also know covert officers are not assigned to Langley.”
You guys are reading the newspapers and such as a lay person would read them. It’s not your fault. There is specific legal meaning to all of the terms, including what is or is not a foreign assignment. A few short trips overseas from a person who works at Langley does not count as a foreign assignment under the letter of the law.
Chris O’Lielly,
Great job taking on these new posters at MN Publius. They now know that you rule this website. Your partisan attacks and rovian take on the comments here is truly a sight for all of us to behold.
You’ve alienated so many people here. Great job!
How’s that “permanent Republican majority” going? I think it’s doing very very well. Certainly, you have proven how smart the Republicans in Minnesota really are.
Again, great job!
I’m sorry. I can’t let this lie.
“Anyone who rejoices in the painful death of another human being has no character. ”
So you oppose the death penalty then. Wish Saddam was still around?
I didn’t “rejoice” at Atwater’s death. I JUST DIDN’T CARE!!!!!! It has nothing to do with differing with him politically and everything to do with him being a poor excuse for a human being.
I know that distinction doesn’t meet your needs but there it is, nonetheless. Stop parroting the same thing back to me.
I’m curious, Chris. Have you ever been accidentally mistaken for a brick wall before?
The relevant portion of Ms. Toensend’s article, which is also the same as her testimony to Congress is, “As the Senate negotiator for this 1982 act, I know a trip or two by Ms. Plame to a foreign country while assigned to Langley, where she worked in July 2003, is not considered a foreign assignment. I also know covert officers are not assigned to Langley.”
I believe it is Toensing.
A U.S Attorney and the head of the CIA disagree with her conclusion. Also weigh in Toensing’s other misrepresentations of the facts in the case and her opinion means even less.
SeanH,
You’re absolutely right, it is Toensing. I was doing two things at once and typed the wrong name. As for the substance of your comments, she wrote the law which you are saying she doesn’t understand. The head of the CIA is not an attorney and cannot be relied upon to testify to the letter of the law. Just because one wishes a person to be covert does not make them covert under the statute dealing with disclosing a person’s identity. The other thing I love about your post is your frequent citing of the prosecutor. Since when do we take the word of prosecutors to be fact? Isn’t our system supposed to be challenging the words and the evidence of prosecutors? Or do we just take them at their word and let them decide who is guilty and how long they should be in jail.
The question I ask you is, why didn’t Fitzgerald prosecute Armitage for the leak if Plame was covert under the law?
P.S. Thank you for catching my mistake on Toensing’s name. That’s what happens when you do too many things at the same time.
Sally,
The only brick wall here is you. Are you comparing terminal cancer to the death penalty or something? Or maybe you’re comparing Atwater to Saddam? I really don’t know where upir comment came from. And no, I did not rejoice when Saddam was hanged. I was pleased that he received the correct punishment for his crimes, but I did not rejoice. Lee Atwater was not a terrible excuse for a human being any more than any other person in politics. You brought up the Willie Horton ads as evidence of Atwater’s moral turpitude. Where is your outrage that Dukakis let this violent offender out for a furlough so he could commit murder and rape?
oops…upir is supposed to be your. Stupid laptop!
To be truly American, in Chris’s reality, is to not only rejoice in the death of Saddam, but of anyone who disagrees with his version of what America should be.
The end justifies the means, in his bubble. The problem with the Republican party is that the bubble burst a long time ago, and they still deny it. Lying for the good of the people is what they do, and in the end, truth rules.
Go ahead Chris, accuse me of lying. Your gut tells you it’s over, unless you’re brain damaged.
Rove was a failure. Admit it.
P.S. Sally,
You did rejoice in the death of Atwater. To refresh your memory, read this:
As I recall, Lee Atwater was the idiot Republican wonk who played guitar and died of brain cancer. I thank God for calling him Home.
You thank God for calling him home, huh? And you accuse other people of being terrible human beings?
Chris O’Lielly Troll,
That post ruled. You rule. Thank GOD the Republican party has people like you to defend them.
Great job!
Sally informed us: “My parents taught me well that if you can’t get your point across without profanity, either you’re not very articulate or your point doesn’t have much validity..”
Ah sweetie-pie, there was no point to get across.
I just wanted to know if you were under contract, ‘cause if not, I think you could make me a bundle working the lefty children’s party circuit.
[cue my Nitro puppet] Dance boy, dance!
Thank you, Swiftee, for representing your party so well.
You are such a great American. Great job! I’m sure your posts will result in a lot more votes for Normy.
Thank you.
Swiftee, what you said was: [cue my American People puppet]
We’ve had enough of that fucking bullshit, pally. Fuck off.
Nitro, I’m conducting a poll. Would you be more or less likely to correct Chris GOPbot when he gets something wrong if you knew he fathered a black child out of wedlock?
Less likely.
http://ogami.subpop.com/bands/ericstrip/et.html
On July 30, the CIA referred a “crime report” to the Justice Department. “If she was not undercover, we would not have a reason to file a criminal referral,” a CIA official said. On Dec. 30, the Justice Department appointed Patrick Fitzgerald, U.S. attorney for northern Illinois, as the special prosecutor.
Sometimes this is just too easy.
Well, apparently there’s no room under the Republican tent for anyone who disagrees with those walking lock-step with Bush and his entourage. Fortunately their power is waning and a more reasoned conservatism can take root again.
“I was wrong to follow the meanness of Conservatism. I should have been trying to help people instead of take advantage of them. I don’t hate anyone anymore. For the first time in my life I don’t hate somebody. I have nothing but good feelings toward people. I’ve found Jesus Christ - It’s that simple. He’s made a difference.”
‚Lee Atwater, Ronald Reagan’s and George Bush Sr’s rabid and ruthless campaign manager and GOP chairman, field director for Richard Nixon’s Committee to Reelect the President (CREEP), ghostly pollster for Texas governor George Bush Jr, frothing at the mouth, dropped dead at age 43 before he could slam a 1992 re-election victory for Bush Sr (March 1991, brain cancer)
This is just a portion of Atwater’s deathbed conversion to humankind. Rove is cut from the same cloth as Atwater and hopefully he will come to the same realization as Atwater, that winning isn’t the goal of the game.
Richard,
You’re as bad as Nitro - you never talk substance all you can do is throw insults and launch personal attacks. It’s really sad how mean spirited and hateful the left is in America.
As for your comment about the CIA filing a report, so what? We are a country of laws and Plame was not covert under the law concerning the disclosure of the identity of covert CIA agents. I don’t care if the CIA ran an ad in the newspaper or flew planes over Washington, D.C. exclaiming Plame’s status. She was not covert under the law protecting covert agents. Nobody has been or will be charged with a crime for disclosing her name, including Richard Armitage - the one person who disclosed her name to Robert Novak. Nothing you can hurl or shout or parrot will change that fact. If she was covert under the law, Richard Armitage most certainly would have been charged with disclosing her identity. He was not.
“Well, apparently there’s no room under the Republican tent for anyone who disagrees with those walking lock-step with Bush and his entourage.”
No, Sally, there is no room in the Republican tent for people who take joy in the suffering and death of others they disagree with. If you are a Republican, I don’t want you in my tent. Go with Nitro and Richard and the rest of the people who hurl insults, assassinate character and drink Kool Aid.
Hey guys, we’d better all stop before Chris hurts himself.
You’d probably rejoice at that too, Sally, as mean spirited as you are.
Chris: “As for the substance of your comments, she wrote the law which you are saying she doesn’t understand. ”
She helped draft it (very different from “writing” it. At the time, she was a staffer for ONE of the senators involved)yet she seems to not know what it says. Contrary to her testimony the law DOES NOT SAY that a covert agent has to reside outside of the US.
Toensing was at best being disengenuous in her testimony. The law does not say what she claims.
“No, Sally, there is no room in the Republican tent for people who take joy in the suffering and death of others they disagree with.”
Well there goes 80% of the freepers
SeanH,
Toensing said (1) covert CIA agents were never stationed at Langley and (2) a few trips overseas does not constitute sufficient time on foreign soil to meet the legal test regarding the covered agents statute that she drafted.
Again, not to beat a dead horse, why wasn’t Armitage indicted for leaking her name? She wasn’t covert under the law and Fitzgerald could not get a conviction.
Green: Do you have anything to say at all about the way the Valerie Plame situation, and the trial, turned out? Did it set an example? Did it send a message about the importance of the integrity of your people — covert people?
General Hayden: I’m not comfortable talking a great deal about it. But let me share with you something I shared with the members of the House of Representatives as they were about to hold open hearings a month or two ago. And that’s simply this: The people in our Agency are either not undercover or they are undercover, they are either overt or covert. And then that’s a binary choice for us. And there isn’t a whole lot more to be said once someone has been identified as one or the other category. That is the role the Agency played in this whole national debate, and I’ll let all of the other elements about that I’ll let other people talk about that. The role of this Agency was simply saying that Ms. Plame’s relationship with this Agency, as a covert CIA officer, was a classified piece of information.
That’s from the CIA site. Really it’s not all that complicated. Rove committed a treasonous act as punishment for Wilson’s dissent. This is getting rather tiresome, pointing out the obvious to the oblivious.
I twitch my pinky finger puppet string and…
“We’ve had enough of that fucking bullshit, pally. Fuck off.”
my Nitro puppet Jumps!!
Wheeee!
I don’t know what you moonbats are so happy about. Now that Karl is a free agent again, you ucan never know what lineup he’ll join next!
Or..did you think he was done with *politics*?
Bwahahahahaa!
Where Rove dwells, moonbats fear to tread.
There’s little doubt in my mind that Rove will resurface in politics somewhere - he loves politics as blood sport far too much to stay away.
”..he loves politics as blood sport far too much to stay away”
Right. And everyone else just wants to help the children.
Heh. Forget the lefty kiddie party circuit hon. You’re ready to work the big room.
Heh, you’re too funny. Heh.
Rove is gone from politics. He is considered toxic as hell right now and nobody in their right mind will go near him. That leaves most of the current GOP hopefuls though and he’ll advise them into oblivion. Thanks to Rove, it’ll take 20 years for the GOP to get back to any level of influence. Traitors aren’t really welcome on campaign staffs.
Richard,
One thing I can say about you is you don’t let go of tghe talking points. I’ve read on at least a half dozen web sites that Rove is a traitor and committed treason.
However, Plame was not covert under the law protecting the identity of covert agents. Why wasn’t Richard Armitage (and why don’t you call him a traitor too while you’re at it?) charged with a crime for leaking her name to Robert Novak? Just because the head of the CIA wishes someone to be covert or undercover or whatever vernacular he’s using, doesn’t mean she was covert (the correct term) under the law concerning the identity of covert agents.
Why wasn’t Richard Armitage charged with leaking her name to Novak, Richard?????
Sally,
I don’t know how old you are, so you may very well die before Rove does. But I’m just curious if you’ll be dancing on his grave like you did when Lee Atwater died of terminal brain cancer.
I won’t dance but I certainly won’t miss him either. And please, no more faux indignation at my “mean-spiritedness”.
Anyone who thanks God for calling someone they disagree with home is mean spirited Sally.
There’s a couple of different reasons that are plausible for not charging Armitage or Rove with disclosing classified information to Novak. One, is Fitzgerald was looking at the obstruction that was in place and was worried about bringing charges to a trial and being stymied by foot soldiers willing to take the bullet for their boss. This would’ve resulted in either a mistrial or the wrong people taking the fall. Two, Fitzgerald saw what was going to happen and if he brought charges and got convictions, Bush would pardon or commute sentences. Three, Fitzgerald has set up the evidence and when there is a less partisan justice department, charges will be brought and there will be no salvation from a friendly president. I am very likely, completely wrong but, this is very important. There has been terrible damage done to the Intelligence gathering community because of this episode. Regardless of the legal defination of covert, why was Plame’s name brought into this? She had no role in Wilson being sent to Niger. This was pure political payback and our national security was damaged as a result. Defending a traitor is not something I thought Republicans were about. It’s hard to keep up with what depths these fascists will sink to.
Sally, guess what. You are not mean spirited, you are normal. The GOPbot can’t come up with anything else so he claims to get the vapors over someone saying something he can construe as being, oh my stars and garters, mean. All the while the GOPbot supports an illegal war that has resulted in the deaths of over a half of million innocent men, women and children. He supports an illegal war that has claimed the lives of nearly 4000 US service people and maimed 10’s of thousands more. Let me help and take some of the pressure off, if I ever find myself at the gravesite of Atwater and/or Reagan and/or Nixon, since I’m really not that good of a dancer, I hope I have an extremely full bladder.
I’ll be there pissing with you Richard! hahahahaha If being mean is telling the truth even when it hurts the righties feelings, so be it.
I just learned that Laura Bush is planning to run for US Senate in 2010! Karl Rove will run the campaign! I know how bad you all feel that george and Karl are splitting up, but hang in there. Laura might be in the White House again in Jan 2013.
Chris = tool
Swiftee = permanent ignore
Thanks for the support, guys! I’ve been doing some more thinking and realized I need to probably take my statement back about Rove being good at what he does. He did a good job getting Bush into office, no doubt - but he has failed miserably pushing the Bush agenda since then (read: spending that political capital) by failing to push through Social Security privatization (remember that?), the Katrina debacle, the disastrous Iraq War (mission NOT accomplished), the failed Harriet Meiers nomination, and more. He’s good at getting into power but not too good at wielding it.
Swiftee
Speaking of puppets…
“It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.” Rumsfeld Feb. 7 2003.
The righties definately believed that one.
“The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator.” Wolfowitz March 11, 2003.
“I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators… . I think it will go relatively quickly, … (in) weeks rather than months.” He predicted that regular Iraqi soldiers would not “put up such a struggle” and that even “significant elements of the Republican Guard … are likely to step aside.”
Cheney on Meet The Press March 16, 2003.
The righties definately parroted the “greeted as liberators” talking point over and over and over again, as you all smashed french wine bottles.
“So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. ” Bush on Osama Bin Laden, March 13, 2002.
You righties ignored that one. 6 months after 9/11 Bush doesn’t spend that much time on Osama? I’m sure you can spin it.
“”We do know that there have been shipments going … into Iraq … of aluminum tubes that really are only suited to — high-quality aluminum tools [sic] that are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs.” Ms. Rice Sept 9, 2002
Did you believe that one, Swiftee? Of course you did.
There’s thousands of examples of the American people being told things, the righties, like you, Swiftee, unquestionably repeating these things, then we find out down the road they were either lies or half truths, and have been complete disasters. The housing bubble is another good example.
The irony is, Swiftee, you and your blowhard, hubris filled talking point repeaters are the true, loyal puppets of the right wing political machine.
You being a puppet master because you can piss people off? That kinda pales in comparison, pally.
Richard,
I see you got your law degree from a Cracker Jack box. Whether or not Richard Armitage should be charged is separate from Libby’s case. Richard Armitage definitely leaked the name of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak. If Plame were covert under the law, a conviction of Armitage would have been easy. The fact is that Fitzgerald did not pursue Armitage — Armitage even bragged to people that he didn’t need an attorney. The rest of what you wrote about obstrution and pardons or commutations is equally absurd. If Fitzgerald were concerned about a pardon or commutation, why did he pursue Libby in the first place?
You’re just a DFLbot spewing the same talking points you’ve read on the Daily Kos and elsewhere. You’re as much a legal scholar as you are a gentleman, Richard — and that ain’t much.
Sally,
You’re a typical bully feigning beinig picked on and needing defending from the rest of the children on the schoolyard. I’d be embarassed if I wished other people terminal cancer. You don’t even know these people, Sally. You’re just another mean spirited hyperpartisan hack — you can sure dish it out but cry when someone challenges your pettiness.
OK, Chris. I won’t wish ‘em dead anymore (not that I ever did). I’ll go pee on their graves along with Richard and Anonymous 35. I notice you didn’t come after them for being ‘mean’. You’re only upset when the little lady doesn’t behave and is ‘mean’. How sexist can you get.
Heh, you’re too funny. And so easy to bait. Bwahahahahah.
That’s not true, Sally. I’ve said that Richard and Anonymous are mean spirited hyperpartisans a number of times. Even so, Richard and Anonymous never said they were glad Lee Atwater died of terrible brain cancer. And anyone who calls someone sexist to cover up their own vile words is just pathetic. Just to remind you of what you said about Lee Atwater:
As I recall, Lee Atwater was the idiot Republican wonk who played guitar and died of brain cancer. I thank God for calling him Home.
You thank God for calling him home and then you said you never wished him dead. What kind of a fool are you, lady?
Like I said, so easy to bait. Bye, Chris.
Sally,
I hope you don’t get brain cancer and die a horrible death. I’ve heard mean spirited people often get sick with terrible diseases. I hope that doesn’t happen to you.
I hope everyone else has abandoned this drivel thread and nobody is reading it. I’m embarrassed for both of us.
Although it’s really too much fun picking on Chris to let it go.
That said, when I’m sick with a terrible disease and am dying a horrible death, I hope God calls me home a.s.a.p. Too bad you see that as a bad thing. As a Christian, I believe it’s the best thing that could happen.
Sally,
The last paragraph is something we both can agree on!
Chris O’Lielly,
I hope you don’t get brain cancer and die a horrible death. I’ve heard mean spirited people often get sick with terrible diseases. I hope that doesn’t happen to you.
My Nitro puppet pops off:
“There’s thousands of examples of the American people being told things, the righties, like you, Swiftee, unquestionably repeating these things.”
See? That’s what happens when you try to dance off your string, my little puppet..you get your lit-tle wooden head all tangled up with your ass.
I was against attacking Iraq, and posted my objections in 2004, and many times since.
But now that we are there, I refuse to do anything to de-moralize our troops or bolster our opponents…that is what we keep lefties around for.
Now back in the box li’l fella, ‘till we need a laugh again.
I refuse to do anything to de-moralize our troops or bolster our opponents…
It’s a good thing I have strong control over my gag reflex. If you really want to support our troops, write little normy and tell him to demand our troops come home immediately. But you won’t do that because you’re a Bush supporter of the Global War on Terror. If you were so against the invasion of Iraq, then you won’t mind when Bush is shipped off to the Netherlands to stand trial for war crimes.
Osama sends his blessings Richard, and says that if you continue to be so helpful he’s going to you in for the “rightous infidel” dispensation which comes with a nice 22 virgin stipend.
BTW Richard, congratulations on your gag reflex control; I’m sure that must be very profitable for you.
If you really wanted to support the troops, tell norm to demand that they come home immediately. If you don’t want to support the troops, that’s your business.