Eric Black has been writing for Minnesota Monitor and now his new site Eric Black Ink since he left the Star Tribune. He has an interesting new piece up today about how unfair it is to implicate or blame Bush policies for the bridge collapse, something I totally agree with him on. But the ending of the article is what really caught my eye:
Since most of the audience believes Bush’s misplaced spending priorities are undermining America, it’s easy (but misleading) to use the bridge as the latest example.
This is one reason that Gov. Pawlenty is serious danger of taking mortal political damage from the bridge collapse. Maintaining bridges in Minnesota is his responsibility. He has been a no-new-taxes Republican. He did veto two gas tax increases that would have raised money that could have been used for bridge maintenance. His bridge people did know about serious problems with this bridge. These facts create a chord that is very prepared to resonate to the idea that Pawlenty is responsible for the disaster.
The picture of the bridge and the cars and the people in the river strums that chord. The burden of proof in such cases may be very low.
Read the whole article here.
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It is true that Pawlenty could have signed a gas tax increase that could have been used for bridge maintenance. A key word in that phrase is “could”. All I ask is that everybody who wants to blame ONLY Pawlenty and the lack of an gas tax increase is this. Do you real think the money would have gone to fix bridges? It seems that politicians on both sides were talking about traffic and that we needed to increase lane miles. Maybe some of the money would have eventually filtered down to such mundane things such as fixing bridges but it was no sure sure thing.
We should hold all of those who would rather spend money on new lanes or trains or buses accountable and make sure they prioritize maintenance over new capacity.
Both are necessary: Adding new lanes - & having a bridge there when you DO get that far, of course.
Which speaks to me for some mass transit. We can condemn everyone’s house & build nothing but lanes. So we can all commute from the ‘burbs.
Of course all those people moving to the burbs can’t live without bringing what they ran away from in the city - with them:
A convenience store, fast food & gas station on every corner.
When gas prices are high - its time to use the attention to get some of the infrastructure & mass transit done. Realize we no longer call $2.75 a gallon high anymore!
It would be time for a WPA-type of program, which puts people to work rebuilding infrastructure. Summer work, for those kids not to “privileged” in the ‘burbs? Of course summer is almost over…
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Yeah, Eric Black - always liked him on “The Daily Show!” ;-)
However capacity is added it will encourage sprawl. The only way to counter that is to increase the cost of transportation in whatever form it takes.
“It is true that Pawlenty could have signed a gas tax increase that could have been used for bridge maintenance. A key word in that phrase is “could”.”
Yeah, I caught that one right away as well. Eric certainly knows how to couch his fingerpointing.
Our roads and bridges will no doubt get the repair that they have been lacking for years now.
It’s just a shame that it had to come to this to get the Democrat party to keep their paws off the funds that are, and have been, allocated for that purpose all along.
It is constitutionally mandated that the gas tax goes 100% to roads and bridges. The DFLers in the State Legislature pushed for an increase in that tax (it hasn’t been increased since 1988) and T-Paw vetoed it.
Matt,
I never say money from the gas wouldn’t go to roads and bridges. just that it most likely would have gone to increase the capacity with little left to maintenance. It is also true that the legislature could have used money allocated to other parts of the budget to increase the amount spent on transportation. Gas taxes do not have to be the only source of funding for roads.
So true Matt - the gas tax is not the only way to go…it makes sense because it IS constitutionally dedicated to roads and bridges. But it is also a regressive tax..it should be part of a revenue package. Our sales tax is fairly narrow - how about a higher tax on luxury goods? Clothing over $100.00, energy-sucking plasma screen T.Vs, a tax on highly processed and highly-packaged food.. Perhaps raise the tab fees on luxury cars…raise the sales tax on luxury cars…. Close corporate tax loop-holes..slap a higher income tax on people earning over $300,000.00 a year..
If we’re examining the bridge blame game, why aren’t we examining why the bridge collapsed?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/us/09cnd-bridge.html?ei=5065&en=dfa3aa04d82c27f4&ex=1187236800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
The New York Times is reporting that there was a design defect from 40 years ago that is the leading theory as to why the bridge collapsed. That has nothing to do with the gas tax or highway funding.
The notion that we need to go out and raise taxes to fix all our problems, when we don’t even know what our problems are for sure, is ridiculous.
Chris O’Reilly,
Examining “The Blame Game” is important. It is like examining why trolls like you behave like they do.
What makes you obsessively, relentlessly pursue a negative agenda of constantly trying to disprove Liberals here?
Do you have some sort of noble cause?
Is it perhaps telling off those damned moonbats what really makes you happy in your life? You sure spend a lot of time doing just that.
Why are there so many people on line like you? How does this behavior reflect on your Party leadership? Shouldn’t leaders be discouraging such retarded behavior?
Tell, me, please.
Explain to me who George Soros is, and why hating him is important? I have no idea, I have heard the name enough times but only on line from you trolls, and your ilk seems to know an awful lot about him.
Just some rich guy who donates money. Liberals can’t be funded?
Anyway, your story is a little bit pre-emptive, don’t you think? The bodies aren’t even out of the water yet.
Nitro,
Examining the blame game is important in that it is important to call out people like Melissa Hortmann saying crazy and unfounded theories about why the bridge collapse and who is to blame. Did you even read the New York Times article? I suspect you didn’t. People should not be pointing the finger at the governor or at the legislature or at one party or the other right now. I’m glad you’re concerned about the bodies that are still in the water. I just wish that concern would have led you to yell at Hortmann to have a little more decorum before spouting off on something she clearly knows nothing about.
I don’t know what George Soros has to do with the bridge collapse. But I can tell you why I don’t agree with George Soros and what he is doing. First of all, he is someone who runs a hedge fund that has bankrupted countries - Soros nearly collapsed the British Pound Sterling in the 1980s. He’s been convicted of insider trading in France. He funnels millions and millions of dollars into liberal front groups and none of that money is ever reported to any campaign finance committee. He has radical views about population control, the U.S. and Israel and other topics.
Nitro, you have a negative agenda of pushing one party rule and one ideology rule, You hate everyone and anyone who disagrees with you. You’ve called me and Kerosene Hat and every other conservative names. You don’t come back with ideas - just vitriol. Quite frankly, Nitro, I don’t even read half of what you write anymore because there is no substance. Counter what I wrote about the bridge if you can. Come up with an idea we can talk about. But I don’t think you’re in this to talk. You’re in this to hear everyone that agrees with you and to lash out at anyone who disagrees with you. That’s your game, Nitro.
Chris,
OK I’ll come up with something we can talk about….
Do you have some sort of noble cause?
Is it perhaps telling off those damned moonbats what really makes you happy in your life? You sure spend a lot of time doing just that.
Why are there so many people on line like you? How does this behavior reflect on your Party leadership? Shouldn’t leaders be discouraging such retarded behavior?
Tell, me, please.
Chris,
It’s pointless to try to have a civil, reasoned discussion with Nitro because Nitro’s modus operandi is ad hominem attacks.
But, to the point of the post, I agree with you, Chris, that those who wish to engage in the blame game at this point are treading on thin ice. Hopefully the investigation of the bridge collapse will reveal how and why the bridge collapsed. Based on comments in the newspaper and on one’s own intuition, one would surmise the bridge collapsed from a confluence of factors, both long- and short-term. But for Eric Black to suggest the political ramifications of the bridge collapse will redound to Pawlenty and his governance of the state in a fiscally responsible manner in a negative manner is lame and unfounded.
The bridge was built in 1967. Over the last 40 years, Governors and legislative majorities of both parties have governed this state and were in a position to rectify this problem if, in fact, the consulting firms who inspected the bridge advised those in charge to do so. Of the stories I have read, concerns about the structure’s soundness were first raised in the mid-90s, when the DFL controlled the Legislature and the Governor was a Republican. Interestingly, in 2001 DFLer El Tinklenburg commissioned an inspection by the U of M (in addition to a regular inspection) to double-check the soundness of the bridge, which the U inspection confirmed.
Pawlenty has been Governor for four years. A disaster of this magnitude usually doesn’t happen that quickly, so to blame Pawlenty for problems that have accumulated over forty years seems unseemly and unfounded.
wtm,
I agree with the substance of your comments. However, if it was a design defect going back 40 years, you really can’t blame the governor or the legislature. The leading theory right now is that it was a design defect and the weight of all of the construction vehicles and activity combined with all of the cars going over the bridge was the trigger for the collapse. If there was negligence in any inspection, that will be an issue. However, deisgn defects are often not discovered until such a tragedy occurs, in which case there isn’t anyone really to blame except for the original design firm.
Wow - it’s so weird that lack of funds is not part of the dialog…but then it appears some fail to grasp that when you have billions of dollars of shortfall every single year for roads and repair infrastructure will deteriorate. Of course ignoring infrastructure is the easy way to go…just let things slide and hope the public doesn’t notice… Both sides of the aisle have done this with transportation.
Why would Pawlenty take damage from this? He has convinced the people of Minnesota, through two elections, that there is a bottemless pit of money being wasted in state government, and that they can have all the services and tax cuts they want. Big government being efficient will pay for it all.
Pawlenty will tell the people that they can have safe bridges, without another dime of taxes. And the people, when told they can have their cake and eat it to, will believe it.
John,
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Chris,
You are spinning again and now telling lies. I don’t have time for this.
The NYT article you quote NEVER STATES: “that is the leading theory as to why the bridge collapsed.”
The strongest statement in the article is: Still, in making public their suspicion about a flaw, the investigators were signaling they consider it a potentially crucial discovery and also a safety concern for other bridges around the country.”
And, I’m sure you’ve seen this from MPR:
Focus on gusset plates called ‘overblown’ http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/08/09/gussetfolo/
Tim,
We won’t know for some time what led to the bridge collapsing. I said it was the leading theory, nobody is reporting that 90 degree weather may have caused the bridge to collapse.
P.S. Tim,
If you’re going to call me a liar, you had better tell me where I lied.
Chris O’Reilly,
You said..”The New York Times is reporting that there was a design defect from 40 years ago that is the leading theory as to why the bridge collapsed.”
Nowhere in the article you linked to mentions the term “leading theory”. It hardly hints at that. That would be a lie that you told.
There’s a lot of theory’s flying around right now. You’ve said many times to (what a rightie would call) “win” an argument that we should find out the real reasons why the bridge collapsed.
I have a leading theory in my house that is not a lie. You are a troll.
Nitro,
How many theories about the bridge collapse are being reported by the New York Times and other major newspapers in America? I know of none. There are unsubstantiated theories (you know, the ones you know a great deal about) and then there are educated theories that are being reported by major newspapers. Right now, the current leading theory as reported by the New York Times is the design defect.
I’ve said all along, you ignorant moron, that we won’t know for sure what caused the bridge to collapse for some time. One thing we can take to the bank is that a few 90 degree days will have nothing to do with the cause.
Chris O’Reilly,
“Leading Theory” is your opinion, and your opinions are quite skewed to the right. Any theory that fits your “noble cause” is the leading theory, like your leading theory about Soros, for example.
“One thing we can take to the bank is that a few 90 degree days will have nothing to do with the cause.”
No, you can’t take that to the bank. There have been more than a few 90 degree days, and they HAVEN’T FOUND OUT THE CAUSE OF THE COLLAPSE YET.
You are a troll, and keep proving that with your weak arguments. You argue to condemn Liberals and Democrats, and reason goes out the window if that is your goal here, troll.
Of course, trolls do know their bridges.
Nitro,
Funny how engineering is skewed to the right. Read the f-ing New York Times, you idiot. In no newspaper has the thought of a few 90 degree days been reported as a possible cause for the collapse. You’re just defending Hortman because she’s a DFLer. Seriously, I’ve never seen anyone who thinks everything is political. You are a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance and quite frankly a drain on anything constructive.
Ahh, that’s just the opinion of a right wing troll, Chris O’Reilly.
Not worth very much at this point…just a voice from the echo chamber. I don’t even care who the hell Hortmann is. I do care that a fucking troll thinks he can look down his petty nose here at people and constantly poison the well with bullshit, obsessively, again and again and again.
Nitro,
Did you read the article? Clearly you didn’t because you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/us/09cnd-bridge.html?ei=5065&en=dfa3aa04d82c27f4&ex=1187236800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
Until you can write something intelligent, you’re back to permanent ignore status. And since you’re calling me names again, you’re the biggest fucking moron I’ve ever come across. You talk about poisoning the well, you’re just plain poison.
Chris O’Reilly,
The article makes it sound like everyones still pretty confused about the cause.
Investigators have found what may be a design flaw in the bridge~
~Gary Peterson, the state’s assistant bridge engineer, said he knew of no questions that had ever been raised about the gusset plates, no unique qualities to distinguish them from those on other bridges, no inkling of any problem during decades of inspections of the bridge.
“I don’t know what this could be,” Mr. Peterson said. “I’m frankly surprised at this point. I can’t even begin to speculate.”
Is it a theory, sure. Is the article interesting, sure. But for you to use that to pick a fight here shows me that you’re more interested in starting shit with people here than having consrtuctive conversation. It’s pretty weak, that’s what I’m saying, Chris.
Very very troll-like behavior.
Chris,
Did you read this?
Damn, I hate when I do that.
Focus on gusset plates called ‘overblown’ http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/08/09/gussetfolo/
Not a problem, Tim. Yes, I did read the article. It said they were investigating the combination of the gussets and the weight on the bridge. It said they have not reached any conclusions. It did not say that the bridge collapsed because of warm temperatures or because Pawlenty vetoed the gas tax increase or because his agency conducted improper inspections.
P.S. Tim,
I’m not saying that the gussets will be the final conclusion for the bridge collapse. There may be something else discovered. That said, I think the likelihood of a design defect or something related to the construction activity being causes of the collapse are logically more probable than something having to do with temperatures or other negligence, etc. But I’m certainly not taking wagers on anything yet.
K-hat,
Tell me something which will not further sprawl.
Developers go in, get theirs & get out.
Cities never allocate land well.
I guess the bridge going down - also prevents sprawl, because it is now harder for people to get to work across town, or from the ‘burbs.
So we shouldn’t replace the bridge? Ludicrous - yes, but its a similar argument, isn’t it?
Mockingbird,
You are right that the bridge will encourage sprawl. My main point is that we have to take care of what we have before we add capacity.