Now, I’m sure this is something that several legislators among both parties did (though its perhaps a little bit worse if you claim to be a fiscal conservative). Demmer gets extra credit, however, becausehe also collected per diem on days when he was in Washington, D.C. at “candidate school”. That doesn’t pass the smell test.
To be clear, this is not illegal, just unethical.
One interesting sidenote: Demmer collected more from the taxpayer in “extra compensation” ($23k) than he did from individual contributors in the 3rd Quarter (17k). Yuck.
Cheap shot. I’ll go through the list and post all the DFL legislators who took per diem on Sundays, MLK Day, and Easter.
A much higher percentage of Democrats are “full time legislators” or “community activists” than Republicans. We have private sector jobs. Democrats legislators - for the most part - don’t.
By the way, I’m still trying to figure out how Walz’s fundraising amount is so good while “high priestess of evil” Michelle Bachmann’s fundraising is not newsworthy. Doesn’t matter…both will be easily re-elected.
Though taking per diem on Sundays and holidays is kinda shady, what I thought was unethical was his taking per diem during candidate school, perhaps I should make the post more clear.
Once again, like Larry Craig, it’s not so much about the action as the hypocrisy: ‘We need to cut government, but give me my share first!’
I’ll be waiting for that list strange.
(In my best Andy Rooney voice)
You ever notice how when Republicans get caught with their hands in the cookie jar they NEVER EVER step up and take responsibility first?
They will first deny.
Then they will try to burn the messenger.
Then they say “but the Democrats…”
Then they run for office again on personal responsibility, family values and cutting government. The very three things they are incapable of stepping up to the plate on.
Think I’m exaggerating? Just venture over to MDE or Residual Forces for a read.
Claiming per diem, especially among rural members who have to travel, is not unusual and it definitely transcends both sides of the aisle. From an AP article that ran earlier this month on this very topic:
Rep. Bernie Lieder, DFL-Crookston, claimed $35,320.68 in alternate compensation through Oct. 1, putting him at the top of his House colleagues.
The top Senate recipient through Sept. 17 was Sen. Tom Bakk, DFL-Cook, with $40,878.08.
Sen. Tarryl Clark, DFL-St. Cloud, the assistant majority leader. Clark claimed $26,894.29 in reimbursements so far this year.
Rep. Mary Ellen Otremba, DFL-Long Prairie, who claimed $31,039.69
Yes - but none of them say ‘government is evil, government is evil’ while they do it. Again, its the blatant hypocrisy that we are objected to, not per diem. He wants to take it, thats fine by me. But I (and the other dems here) will comment when people who have a problem with the taxpayer forking for a a few hundred dollars a month to a mother with sick kids takes 23k at the taxpayer’s expense.
I like these posts that throw a little light on the corrupt people that represent most of the legislature. The part worse than the per diem is the housing allowance that some people use to “rent” space from friends and family for an amount that happens to be the maximum allowable. The fact that they can all take the per diem and not show actual expenses is an another big factor. I won’t even go into how “full time legislators” like Rukavina and others make a living when being a state rep is their only job.
If they legislature believes they need to be paid more they should have the courage to say so and vote on it. Instead they all hide these things from the public they say they serve.
I too am tired of hypocrisy, especially by those who state global warming is a dire situation that needs to be addressed, but have no problem continuing to drive cars, use their electricity-consuming computers to post snarky comments on blogs, refuse to not open their mouths when they know hot air is going to come out, fart, etc.
So the hypocrisy of a Democrat that wants to spend money to help sick kids but takes the money for themselves is somehow better than that of the Republican who doesn’t want to give money for sick kids? At least the Republican was right about government being corrupt even if they are among the corrupted.
So, if I want limited government, the argument is I must not got paid if I work for the government? That advocating for limited growth in government while collecting a salary from the government, is hypocritical?
Now that is strange….
Democrats want a bigger government that does more things. Republicans (generally speaking) don’t. Saying Republicans shouldn’t get paid for per diem because they oppose giving Minnesota the highest income tax rate in the nation…..
Now that is dumb.
You guys are still missing the boat. Siefert, for example, railed against the per diem increase and then took it. That is blatent hypocricy.
I don’t know if Demmer was for or against the per diem increase (but I’d bet a whole lot of money he was against it) but can’t you admit that its wrong for a legislator to take per diem when he is at “candidate school”????
strange-
When opposition to everything - money for infrastructure repair, money for children’s health insurance, money for pre-school - is taken to the level of vicious intensity that has characterized the Republican party these last few years, it looks odd when one of those champions of small government takes a lower-income person yearly salary worth of perks. Look quite strange.
I don’t hear a Republican party against everything. I hear a Republican party that opposes
- giving in-state tuiton to illegal immigrants
- forcing Minnesotans to pay the highest income tax rate in the nation
- increasing the metro area sales tax to 7%
- forcing all school district employees into the same health insurance pool
I hear a Republican party that says….
- A state budget of over $17 billion dollars with an increase of 9% should be enough to take care of “infrastructure repair, money for children’s health insurance, money for pre-school”
- Instead of paying for more money for “infrastructure repair, money for children’s health insurance, money for pre-school” with tax increases, we’d like more money for schools paid for by reducing our obese welfare system.
But, I suppose it is just easier to try and raise taxes. Democrat campaigns are funded by those who want to grow government. Not a shock when they deliver for their contributors.
Bullcrap!
It was a Republican-controlled house that allowed the metro sales tax to be raised. Just because you passed the buck doesn’t mean that you all, as well as the Hennepin county authorities, don’t share in the blame.
You are the ones who called inflation increase a surplus, and vetoed the money to pay for infrastructure. There is no state welfare system - so your polite version of ‘cut it out of the black people’ won’t fly here.
This isn’t MDE - we demand more research the GOP press releases.
Party of personal responsibility? You raise someone else’s taxes to pay for your stadium, you veto money for infrastructure repair and say its not your fault when roads and bridges fail, and you talk about the wonders of private-industry jobs as your people embezzle what some people call a yearly salary out of the state.
Well heck, Zack, Matt - here’s something unrelated, but its on ‘family values’ and ‘personal responsibility’
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071017/NEWS01/710170858
Short version: how Mitch McConnel had Republican style ‘family values’ (bullying small children), and then displayed Republican style ‘personal responsibility’ (he lied about doing it).
Because if strange here makes some half truths and lies examples of Republican ‘responsibility’, I’ll give him some more!
The hypocrisy of a Republican abusing per diem when they talk about wanting smaller government is no different than the hypocrisy of a Democrat abusing per diem and complaining about how there is not enough money to pay for programs. Anybody who thinks that Democrats don’t do this every bit as much as Republicans has their head in the sand. The truth is our system attracts corrupt hypocrites like flies to shit and all those who continue to support both parties either know it or are incredibly stupid.
Kerosene Hat -
Again, you are missing the true hypocrisy here. Republicans railed against DFLers for raising per diem, and then took the money. Broader philisophical points are irrelevant.
Zack,
There is enough hypocrisy to go around. You can pretend you are offended by hypocrisy as you hold Republicans to one standard and Democrats to another but of course that would make you a …
KH,
I have one standard. Show me a DFLer who critisized the per diem and then took it, and I’ll critisize them.
Ok, I’ll give you the sales tax increase on Hennepin County. Those who supported that will have to explain themselves.
I’m not following the per diem logic here.
Given your logic, every Democrat legislator who voted against the state income tax cuts on 1999 and 2000 should still be paying income taxes at a higher rate, right?
Or Democrats who voted against the Bush tax cuts of 2002 should still be paying federal income taxes at a higher rate, right?
I’m not following your logic here. Explain to me why I’m wrong.
Just to prove how I like to roast both sides….why isn’t anyone talking about how Republican campaign contributors are suing to delay the 35W project?
Sayer, M. Scott
Sullivan (Brian) for Governor 02-26-2002 $2000
Sullivan (Brian) for Governor 12-31-2001 $249.5
Phillippi, W A
(Tim) Pawlenty for Governor Committee 02-06-2006 $2000
(Tim) Pawlenty for Governor Committee 03-29-2005 $250
(Tim) Pawlenty for Governor Committee 06-29-2004 $500
Patricia Anderson for State Auditor 06-04-2002 $250
You have one standard as long as you narrow your field of reference beyond any meaning. It would be just as valid to say “Show me one Democrat that claims to support open government and the democratic process and then avoided the public reaction to giving themselves a pay raise by increasing their more hidden sources of income such as housing and per diem without requiring them to show how it is spent.”
Choosing to arbitrarily frame the matter so only the hypocrisy of others is presented is not honest. The fact that you would call out a Republican for doing what you did is what makes it hypocritical.
KH -
I disagree. Raising per diem was not an affront to open government. It was done in an open meeting that was scheduled in advance and widely covered in the press. No one was hiding anything.
Moreover, taking a position that is at odds with a broader philosophical point that you advocate is not the same as doing something that you specifically have condemned. For example, it is one thing to say “Its wrong to break the law” and then jaywalk. Its another thing to say “Its wrong to jaywalk” and then jaywalk. If you can show me a DFLer who says that the per diem system is an affront to open governemtn (a point that I disagree with) but took the money anyway, I’ll critisize them. We’re all guilty of hypocricy at some level. Blatant hypocricy, like saying it was wrong to raise per diem and then taking the money, takes it to a different level.
Zack - You dodged by question.
Given your logic, every Democrat legislator who voted against the state income tax cuts on 1999 and 2000 should still be paying income taxes at a higher rate, right?
Or Democrats who voted against the Bush tax cuts of 2002 should still be paying federal income taxes at a higher rate, right?
Same thing, they criticized a policy - a policy which financially benefited them - and then took advantage of the financial benefit they previously criticized.
Please explain…
I notice no reply to my questions. I will take the lack of any response as an acknowledgement that I’m right and Democrats are wrong.
Strange leads the DFL 1-0
What the heck is Demmer doing taking the per diem when he is in a Repbulican Training Camp? That’s Hypocrisy with a capital “H”.
Zack,
Your analogy is nonsensical. If you say you are against breaking the law and then jaywalk you are by definition a hypocrite since “breaking the law” specifically includes all law and therefore jaywalking.
If you really believe that how the Democrats increased their compensation was straight forward you are nuts. It was a calculated move to provide a maximum increase while minimizing the negative attention it would draw as they could deny in the coming election that they “increased their salaries”. I am sure you know full well the type of campaign literature that comes out during the elections and how those things get spun. The DFL was looking for plausible deniability pure and simple. Ask a few of the legislators you most trust to be honest while off the record, they will admit it.
I understand that as a partisan you have to ignore a lot of hypocrisy as partisans are by their nature hypocrites. If you ever have to wonder how both congress and the president can have approval ratings that together don’t add up to 40% you need look no further than this type of crap. Both sides hope to hide their own incompetence and corruption by pointing at the other sides incompetence and corruption.
Demmer is a bum.
But:
If your Moonbats want to rally around somebody taking money that they either didn’t earn or money that isn’t thier’s, lots of luck.
The DFL has habitually been the party of victimization and self-rightousness. After you clowns are done feeling sorry for yourselves, then you look for someone to blame.
Want to play the [Hillary Clinton] game of Robin Hood politics?
I’m all ears, Moonbats.
DFL
Deadbeat
Freeloading
Lunatics
…but the Democrats…
Never, ever expect the Republicans to take personal responsibility when caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
Three D’s folks will define their actions:
Deny
Distort
Distract
Right now, since they can’t deny the fact Demmer took the money, they distort the analogy of him being a hypocrite and then try to distract from him by pointing to some Democrats actions, leaving Zack to either defend the analogy or explain why its apples and oranges when they bring up the democratic stuff. Its working too but, not on me.
Demmer bitched about per-diems, and though he is not required to take them by law- as a matter of fact he had to fill out quite a bit of paperwork for it- he found a way not to only take what could be justified (travel and lodging during session) but to go over and rob the till for days he was clearly not involved in session work.
Hypocrite.
DJZ,
I agree completely that Demmer is a hypocrite. Those people that will only point out Republican hypocrisy while knowingly ignoring Democratic abuse of the system are hypocrites as well. I imagine at least 90% of both parties do the same or worse. My posts in no way denied or distorted anything and if pointing out further hypocrisy distracted you I apologizes. I will try and keep things simple for you next time.
Interesting take on Demmer’s Math problems by DJ Danielson…http://idonthateamerica.com/2007/10/17/demmer-takes-per-diem-to-attend-candidate-school-in-dc-misleads-public-about-votes-missed/
This Spring, Demmer tells the PB…Demmer had told Edward Felker of the Post Bulletin last spring about the day’s he missed work in St. Paul:
Demmer said that while he took a leave of absence from the state House during his trip, he said that he was not on any conference committees and that bills brought up for a vote those days were not final. “I missed two or three votes, and those bills are coming back around,” he said.
What gets me here is….
-Randy Demmer takes an absence to further his political ambitions. Then collects 2 days per diem while seeing to those ambitions that has nothing to do with the Minnesota Legislature. What he did was not illegal. But I do have to question his ethics in accepting money he should not have.
JohnS,
Your arguments that Republicans are against infrastructure repair, children’s education and health care are false. I remind you that the years 2006, 2005 and 2004 (in order) were record years of funding roads and bridges in Minnesota. We’ve had double digit increases in Health and Human Services in the recent biennium and education has received more money too. Although the problem with education funding is that 99% of the school districts don’t get the extra money because it gets tied to Minneapolis, St. Paul and Duluth in the form of extra compensation for teachers in only those districts courteousy of Education Minnesota.
I will not, however, argue with you that Randy Demmer is a hypocrite on this issue. I think Republicans in the First District would be disgusted about this kind of behavior - especially claiming per diem when he was at campaign school.
Chris you can’t point that kind of stuff out. You may as well say we’ve done more transportation projects in the last four years than the previous 12 combined.
As long as we’re talking about per diem, what’s Otremba need so much for? She’s not a player, not a key figure on any major committee. Almost as bad as Juhnke when he was a minority member. That guy made boatloads in perks.
Randy Demmer is a Candidate for the 1st CD currently held by Tim Walz. With the recent victory for a returning Minnesota National Guard Unit from 22 months in Iraq in recieving the benifits they are deserved and Tim bitching about it to high heaven straight to the Pentagon, Demmer is going to have to explain to voters how “Tim Walz is too Liberal for the District and is out of touch with voters” spiel.
Randy Demmer does not have a leg to stand on as far as being the one to gain the GOP nimination. His recent political flyer I recieved at my door last wekend says how he is so for “Family Values”. It is not a “Family Value” or a value in general to accept per diem while in Washington furthering his own political ambitions that had nothing to do with the business of the Minnesota Legislature.
If at all, this and several issues regarding Randy Demmer’s distain, will weigh heavily as to how long he thinks he will be in this Congressional race. Either way, the 1st CD will remain in Tim’s hand to nurture.
Kathy,
Are you capable of a thought that does not include Tim Walz?
KH,
Kathy thinks her Congressman is a religious figure instead of a politician. It’s funny how Kathy takes shots at Bachmann but conveniently forgets that Walz has a 93% voting record with Nancy Pelosi. That’s neither independent or moderate.
Still waiting for someone to tell me why a Republican against per diem is a hypocrite for taking it, but a Democrat who who is against tax cuts and accepts them…isn’t..
Still waiting…
Chris-
Again, this is not MDE - Ron Carey’s press releases don’t pass for gospel truth here, we don’t smack our heads on the ground in tribute when someone in Authority goes on and Makes An Announcement. We check facts here. That fact that the governor vetoed transportation revenue the last two sessions, and money for healthcare last session are one the public record. Even if the Leader says otherwise.
Years of record funding? I got a bridge that says your wrong. I got some crappy roads that say you are wrong. I have MnDOT desperately in debt that says your wrong. And I know, just because your governor vetoed the money, and your lieutenant governor has been running it into the ground - its still someone else’s fault. Your defense of your governor, in other words, is not structurally sound.
And its part of the same great hypocrisy - talking up personal responsibility, and how people shouldn’t rely on government, whilst pillaging it for you and yours.
As for transportation the truth is as usual not completely on the side of either party. Pawlenty vetoed new funding and the DFL voted the spending (from bonding) and both sided decided to spend money in areas less critical than transportation. Both sides played chicken and the public lost.
The DFL wanted to bond to pay off a parking ramp in Saint Paul as graft to their friend mayor Coleman rather than bond for bridge maintenance. So again, there is plenty of hypocrisy for partisans on both sides to take credit for.
“Kathy thinks her Congressman is a religious figure instead of a politician. It’s funny how Kathy takes shots at Bachmann but conveniently forgets that Walz has a 93% voting record with Nancy Pelosi. That’s neither independent or moderate.”
Rather than talk about me as if I did not exist, direct your pot shots at me, Chris.
I criticize Michele Bachmann for her lack of factual thinking before she spouts off fears on an issue like SCHIP. I am looking at her overall performance. As I stated, there are other jobs she can be doing effectively. Being a member of Congress is not one of them.
Tim Walz has voted the way he said he would when he ran for Congress. He makes no excuses, and has taken the heat when there had been objections. Gil Gutknecht, on the other hand, voted with Team Bush 94% of the time while he was in. He was no more an Independent or Moderate. Let’s be fair here.
Kathy,
I don’t have a problem with you supporting Walz, even if I don’t agree with you completely on his voting record, but the constant idolization seems a bit strange. Your “Fanboy” attitude and embellishments causes your comments to come across as naive and makes me question your ability to be critical the same way I would for those that faun over Bush, Wellstone, Jesus…
I trade a loss of Walz for a loss of Bachmann.
John,
I don’t know about you, but I have bills to pay and mouths to feed. The only “pillaging” going on around here is by you and your liberal buddies who continually pillage my wallet and the wallets of other Americans to feed what you consider to be your big, personal charity — government.
Kathy,
I’ve always responded to you directly, so I don’t know where that came from. You do think your Congressman is a religious figure. Walz claimed to be an independent voice when he ran for Congress. Remember that little slogan? Since then, he’s had a 93% voting record with Nancy Pelosi. That’s not independent. Gutknecht, on the other hand, never claimed to be something he wasn’t. I’ve lived in the First District my whole life. From Gil Gutknecht to Tim Penny to Arlen Erdahl to Al Quie, the First District has always been represented by pretty pragmatic and relatively conservative people — until now. Walz didn’t even join the Blue Dogs, Kathy. Walz is outside the mainstream of his district.
Then have then guts to tell that to his face directly Chris if you are so convinced of that. Outside the mainstream. B.S.!!!