Comments on: The Case for Obama http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/ Tracking Minnesota Politics Since 2005 Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:31:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Interesting Obama Stat » The Deets - Ed Kohler's Blog http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9932 Interesting Obama Stat » The Deets - Ed Kohler's Blog Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:47:12 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9932 [...] The Case for Obama at MNpublius.com Andrew Sullivan's points about Obama's potential bipartisan appeal are especially salient today as Zogby's recent polling becomes a topic of national conversation. The short story: Zogby's head-to-heads show Hillary losing to every single Republican candidate for President. How does Obama fare? He wins against every single Republican candidate for President. (Edwards is somewhere in between) [...] […] The Case for Obama at MNpublius.com Andrew Sullivan’s points about Obama’s potential bipartisan appeal are especially salient today as Zogby’s recent polling becomes a topic of national conversation. The short story: Zogby’s head-to-heads show Hillary losing to every single Republican candidate for President. How does Obama fare? He wins against every single Republican candidate for President. (Edwards is somewhere in between) […]

]]> By: Archer Dem http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9946 Archer Dem Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:59:27 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9946 One article in the Atlantic Monthly isn't going to change the mind of someone who has been following Senator Obama's career since he was elected and has paid careful attention to his campaign. I guess I'm just not drawn in by his talk of abstract concepts like "hope". One article in the Atlantic Monthly isn’t going to change the mind of someone who has been following Senator Obama’s career since he was elected and has paid careful attention to his campaign. I guess I’m just not drawn in by his talk of abstract concepts like “hope”.

]]> By: Diana http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9945 Diana Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:16:54 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9945 Forget about the polls - read the full Atlantic Monthly article - and while you're at it, check out "The Relaunch [of Obama]" in this past week's New Yorker. Then come back and comment on what you read. Forget about the polls - read the full Atlantic Monthly article - and while you’re at it, check out “The Relaunch [of Obama]” in this past week’s New Yorker.

Then come back and comment on what you read.

]]> By: Archer Dem http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9944 Archer Dem Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:12:07 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9944 Matt, I still don't think you've addressed the point I was making. I know it is common practice in all forms of media to use only the facts that fit the narrative, but I was hoping you would go beyond that. Instead this post shows you shilling for a candidate by using misleading numbers. Yes, the analysis that followed it was correct IF the numbers themselves are any good. Analysis has shown Zogby to have twice the error of other polling outfits. Solid analysis doesn't mean much if the premise upon which it is all based is about as sturdy as a rotting board. To be clear, I have no problem with a blog endorsing a candidate for President. If I had someone I was convinced was the answer and I was a blogger, I'd definitely make a public endorsement. I just disagree with your use of polls that you know to be suspect to make your point, especially when a more reliable poll with a different conclusion was released the same day. I believe Obama probably would do even better than Gallup has him simply because he has a relatively low (compared to Clinton) name recognition, so his numbers would probably go up as more people get to know him. He is, after all, a likable guy. I'd have no problem if that was the point that was made. I would find it valid and convincing. Matt,
I still don’t think you’ve addressed the point I was making. I know it is common practice in all forms of media to use only the facts that fit the narrative, but I was hoping you would go beyond that. Instead this post shows you shilling for a candidate by using misleading numbers. Yes, the analysis that followed it was correct IF the numbers themselves are any good. Analysis has shown Zogby to have twice the error of other polling outfits. Solid analysis doesn’t mean much if the premise upon which it is all based is about as sturdy as a rotting board.

To be clear, I have no problem with a blog endorsing a candidate for President. If I had someone I was convinced was the answer and I was a blogger, I’d definitely make a public endorsement. I just disagree with your use of polls that you know to be suspect to make your point, especially when a more reliable poll with a different conclusion was released the same day. I believe Obama probably would do even better than Gallup has him simply because he has a relatively low (compared to Clinton) name recognition, so his numbers would probably go up as more people get to know him. He is, after all, a likable guy. I’d have no problem if that was the point that was made. I would find it valid and convincing.

]]> By: john http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9943 john Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:13:46 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9943 Hillary has it locked up, spending time on Obama is an excersize in futility Hillary has it locked up, spending time on Obama is an excersize in futility

]]> By: Matt http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9942 Matt Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:18:38 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9942 Archer Dem: "garbage" was too strong for me to use. I do think they are of some use, Zack and Sean may disagree with me. And I do think that my analysis follows from the polls despite those polls somewhat suspect methodology. This is why I said this in the post: "Look, I'll fully admit that putting too much stock in polls like this at this point is somewhat foolish; especially when the margins are so close." Archer Dem: “garbage” was too strong for me to use. I do think they are of some use, Zack and Sean may disagree with me. And I do think that my analysis follows from the polls despite those polls somewhat suspect methodology. This is why I said this in the post: “Look, I’ll fully admit that putting too much stock in polls like this at this point is somewhat foolish; especially when the margins are so close.”

]]> By: Archer Dem http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9941 Archer Dem Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:14:07 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9941 "yeah, yeah, yeah, we all agree that these polls are garbage but I was using it to make a larger point." If the point was to mislead the readers of your blog then mission accomplished. If you knew the numbers were BS, then I think morally you should either omit them or put a disclaimer. Better yet, also cite the Gallup's (more reliable) numbers from the same day showing Clinton winning against every Republican by margins larger than Obama's. “yeah, yeah, yeah, we all agree that these polls are garbage but I was using it to make a larger point.”

If the point was to mislead the readers of your blog then mission accomplished. If you knew the numbers were BS, then I think morally you should either omit them or put a disclaimer. Better yet, also cite the Gallup’s (more reliable) numbers from the same day showing Clinton winning against every Republican by margins larger than Obama’s.

]]> By: Archer Dem http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9940 Archer Dem Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:10:41 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9940 On a policy level I see very little difference between Obama and Clinton. On the leadership level in the Senate on important issues, I see very little difference. On electability, I see very little difference. Obama has the ability to give a good speech, but that's all I've seen from him. The one time I saw him in person, he wasn't impressive. I went and saw Clinton 10 minutes later and thought she was better. People say they can't trust Clinton. I have that problem with both her and Obama. Obama has been in DC for 3 years now, and already he has become one of the biggest insiders there. Look at his campaign staff. They are all old-guard anti-progressive democrats that are part of the entrenched machine, just like Hillary's. I won't support a non-progressive candidate in the primary, so both Obama and Clinton are out for me. On a policy level I see very little difference between Obama and Clinton. On the leadership level in the Senate on important issues, I see very little difference. On electability, I see very little difference. Obama has the ability to give a good speech, but that’s all I’ve seen from him. The one time I saw him in person, he wasn’t impressive. I went and saw Clinton 10 minutes later and thought she was better.

People say they can’t trust Clinton. I have that problem with both her and Obama. Obama has been in DC for 3 years now, and already he has become one of the biggest insiders there. Look at his campaign staff. They are all old-guard anti-progressive democrats that are part of the entrenched machine, just like Hillary’s.

I won’t support a non-progressive candidate in the primary, so both Obama and Clinton are out for me.

]]> By: Big Kahuna http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9939 Big Kahuna Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:33:29 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9939 What the point is - Clinton already SAID she will be the democRat choice with Katie C. :) Anyone here want to bet against Hillary? The democRats will put on a show like the nomination is open but the fact of the matter is Hillary already bought this one. :) What the point is - Clinton already SAID she will be the democRat choice with Katie C. :)
Anyone here want to bet against Hillary? The democRats will put on a show like the nomination is open but the fact of the matter is Hillary already bought this one. :)

]]> By: Matt http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9938 Matt Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:48:16 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9938 yeah, yeah, yeah, we all agree that these polls are garbage but I was using it to make a larger point. yeah, yeah, yeah, we all agree that these polls are garbage but I was using it to make a larger point.

]]> By: HCDFL http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9937 HCDFL Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:39:20 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9937 Check out the Daily Kos blog "Zogby "interactive" polls are junk" Check out the Daily Kos blog “Zogby “interactive” polls are junk”

]]> By: Zack http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9936 Zack Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:29:36 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9936 It doesn't really matter though. Obama is the better candidate. He has the opportunity to do great things for this country, and Clinton just doesn't have the same potential. It doesn’t really matter though. Obama is the better candidate. He has the opportunity to do great things for this country, and Clinton just doesn’t have the same potential.

]]> By: Dan http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9935 Dan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:20:57 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9935 I like Obama, but those Zogby interactive polls are complete shit. I like Obama, but those Zogby interactive polls are complete shit.

]]> By: SeanH http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9934 SeanH Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:15:20 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9934 That Zogby poll is worthless. They do two types-phone polls and interactive online polls. Guess which one is completely inaccurate? Guess which type got the Hillary results? That Zogby poll is worthless. They do two types-phone polls and interactive online polls. Guess which one is completely inaccurate? Guess which type got the Hillary results?

]]> By: Zack http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9933 Zack Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:11:27 +0000 http://s23139.gridserver.com/2007/11/the-case-for-obama/#comment-9933 I agree with Matt, but I don't trust Zogby polls. I agree with Matt, but I don’t trust Zogby polls.

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