Vets for Franken

by Matt Martin | 52 Comments

Getting around to some old items, here is a great video from the Vets for Franken Rally.

Check out the Vets for Franken site. There are 5 other videos there from the rally featuring Senator Bob Kerrey, Dr. Bob Meaders, Steve Sarvi, Jim Bootz, and State Senator Steve Murphy. Check ‘em out!

November 27, 2007, 10:39 am | Category: MN 2008: Senate | Tags: .

52 Responses to “Vets for Franken”

Feed for this Entry Trackback Address
  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 11:00 am

    Franken is pretty lousy, but at least he didn’t use any F-bombs.

    Seriously, how can any Democrat think this clown can get elected?

  • Michael B. Brodkorb
    November 27, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Matt:

    Here’s what I wrote on November 13:

    “According to sources who attended Team Franken’s veteran’s rally with former Senator Bob Kerry, the event was highly scripted and Team Franken may have filmed the event for use in a campaign advertisement.

    Was the goal to have an actual veteran’s rally or was the goal to film a campaign advertisement?”

    I now know the answer. The goal was to film campaign advertisements.

  • Michael B. Brodkorb
    November 27, 2007 at 11:29 am

    Also Matt, I guess the goal of this event wasn’t just to salute our Veterans, but to film campaign advertisements.

    You tried to claim this was an event just meant “to be a salute to our Veterans”:

    “Again, this was just meant to be a salute to our Veterans but if the partisan Republicans want to try to make it out to be a partisan stunt, well, they should look in the mirror first.”

    Oops.

  • purpleblogdog
    November 27, 2007 at 11:50 am

    I’m sure he will be at the Game Fair this fall too. Blaze orange and all. What a poser.

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 11:53 am

    Wow the hate that some of you guys spew is too much. Yes I am for Franken and against Ciresi but I never would use such hateful language against a fellow democrat trying to advance our principles. Rather than tear someone down, why not try to build someone up.

  • Sean
    November 27, 2007 at 11:57 am

    Michael — 

    Norm Coleman — who I can only assume is your future paymaster (if he isn’t already this cycle, lord knows you don’t admit to getting paid until you absolutely have to) — has hired and continues to employ Scott Howell, who aside from being a race baiting sleazebag Mr. Howell ran an ad against Max Cleland putting his picture next to that of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.

    Max Cleland was awarded the Silver and Bronze Star and he is a recipient of the Purple Heart.

    But let me guess, since you have to work with someone so odious, so contemptible we won’t see that up on your blog?

    Hmm… probably not. But lemme guess, you’re gonna get, 5 maybe 6 posts out of this video?

    Sean

  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 11:57 am

    Because Franken isn’t advancing Democratic principles - he is just advancing his own ego. If he was interesting in advancing Democratic principles, he wouldn’t be running for Senate. Coleman should lose this race, but he will win it if Al Franken is the Democratic nominee. Maybe the hateful language came from listening to Al Franken call people “butt boys” and “shameless dicks.”

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    As a gay man who would usually be offended by the term butt boys, I am an ardent support of Al Franken. Unlike Ciresi, Franken is for marriage equality. As someone who wants to one day get married, this is at the top of my list of issues I care about. In fact because Al is for marriage equality he has won the support of a number of important people in the GLBT community, including Senator Scott Dibble, Ambassador Jim Hormel and Elizabeth Birch, the former head of of HRC. It is time for the Democratic Party to embrace full equality for the GLBT community. I say God Bless people like Al Franken who are leading the way.

  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 12:12 pm

    It really doesn’t matter what Al Franken is for or against (although his enthusiastic support for the Iraq war sure doesn’t do much for me) because he won’t get elected. By supporting Franken, you are basically endorsing Norm Coleman’s views on marriage equality.

  • Izzy
    November 27, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Jake,

    Where do you get that Ciresi isn’t for marriage equality?
    I have heard him twice now talk about this and is very much for giving gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered couples the same rights as heterosexual couples - so, I am just curious where you got this notion.

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Well politics is the art of the possible. I guess I just see different possibilities both for Al Franken and for the future of our party. Invariably when talking about civil rights there are always people who say too soon. Well I think the time has come for Minnesota to embrace marriage equality and I will put my support behind candidates who share that vision. I wish you’d join me.

    In the words of a great civil rights hero, Congressman John Lewis, “the time is always right to do right.”

  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 12:23 pm

    Enjoy six more years of Norm Coleman, Jake.

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 12:27 pm

    Izzy — Ciresi is for civil unions with many of the same benefits of marriage but he has never voiced support for marriage equality. In fact he has said in a debate that he was specifically not for marriage equality. In the almanac debate he stated, “”in terms of marriage I am not in favor of imposing that on religious denominations.” A statement which frankly made no sense as civil marriage rights have no barring on religious institutions.

    I don’t know how familiar you are with the fight for gay and lesbian civil rights, but I am a long time gay activist. Civil Unions are simply not the same as civil marriage. As we have learned from American history separate is inherently unequal. Gay and lesbian Americans will only realize their full equality when they too have the right to get married. In order to reach that day we (members of the Democratic Party) need to support candidates who support marriage equality. There are many in Minnesota who are willing to stand up in support of marriage equality. The mayors of Minneapolis and St. Paul do, Congressman Tim Walz does, and Al Franken does.

    As a gay man I will work for those who work for me.

  • Izzy
    November 27, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    Jake,

    I am well aware of the issues facing the GLBT community - was part of HRC for a while.
    Here is how I see Ciresi’s remarks - the only thing he would have control over is the civil union part of marriage and he is all for giving everyone the same rights under the law - which is the only thing an elected official can do - they have no control over whether a religious institution will let them get “married” - so, let’s change the thing we can - civil unions.

    I think the only problem with Ciresi is he is not understanding the correct framing of the issue. Have you talked to him personally about this - I have and he is absolutely in favor of getting equal rights for all couples - whether they be heterosaexual or homosexual

  • Kerosene Hat
    November 27, 2007 at 1:42 pm

    Sean,

    Remember this quote? At least Michael calls his blog what it is.

    “Sean Nov 20th, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    Actually Kerosene Hat, one of our members is working for Al Franken in IT (but I’m sure you knew that, you were just trying to hide it under that snazzy veneer of being a smartass).

    But, in response to asking about our connections to the different candidates, its an straw man and a waste of our time. If I had to tell you every acquaintance and friend that was working for a DFL campaign in Minnesota I’d have a hard time writing anything else.

    You repeatedly hint (this isn’t the first time) that we’re biased because JD works for the Franken camp. Shit, we may be. And, lets be honest here, it’s not like anyone doesn’t know. But I’ll tell you what I’ve told every other campaign that’s asked, I’ll happily post anything thats positive for a Democrat in the state.

    But in the future you can either accuse us of being biased or continue with the passive aggressive approach you’ve taken so far.

    And finally it’s not my responsibility to “provide an evenhanded look at the candidates positions and let people decide for themselves.” If you think it is, then maybe you’re looking at the wrong blog.

    Sean”

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Yes Izzy I have talked about this issue with Mike Ciresi.

    And while your post is well intentioned, you are confusing the difference between civil marriage and civil unions. There is and always has been in America an institution of civil marriage. In all fifty states, heterosexual couples can go to city hall and get a “marriage licence” not a “civil unions” licence. What Ciresi is proposing is that gay people would go to city hall and get a document with a different name than heterosexuals.

    This is what currently happens in Vermont, California and New Jersey, each which have “civil unions” for gay couples. What Franken and those who support marriage equality support is that gay couples and straight couples would both be able to go to city hall and receive a marriage licence. This is currently what takes place in Massachusetts — which at present is the only state in the United States which allows marriage equality.

    To understand this different please visit http://www.FreedomtoMarry.org or visit the Human Rights Campaign at http://www.HRC.org. Both organizations make clear the different between a civil union and marriage equality. At the end of the day Al Franken supports marriage equality, Mike Ciresi does not.

    I understand that you want Ciresi to be the same as Franken on this issue (so do I), but he is not and we need to acknowledge the facts. Believe me as soon as Ciresi states, “I support marriage equality.” I will be the first to sing his praises.

    To understand the difference, please read this article: http://www.freedomtomarry.org/images/pdfs/marriage_makes_a_word_of_difference.pdf

  • Charley
    November 27, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    Jake,
    I hear exactly what you are saying regarding civil unions versus actual marriage. My church does same-gender marriages, although they are not recognized by the state. A number of churches are now deciding not to do any marriages at all, until the state recognizes the rights of committed same-gender couples. I also think it is an important distinction for anyone who believes in marriage.

    In any case, I think you would be very pleasantly surprised to hear Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer’s views on marriage equality.

    But why not ask the question directly yourself? There is a forum/debate at Roosevelt HS, 4029 - 28th Ave South, Minneapolis between 7 and 9 p.m. Franken, Ciresi, Cohen and Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer will all be there. Plus the event will be moderated by state DFL chair Brian Melendez. (It’s co-sponsored by CD 5 and SD 62.)

    It’s all coming up tonight, Tuesday, November 27. Check it out.

    My guess is that this will be the best debate so far, and I believe it is the last debate before the February 5 precinct caucuses. (Rumor has it that Franken is in re-runs until the writers’ strike gets settled. Sorry; couldn’t resist.)

  • Zack
    November 27, 2007 at 2:56 pm

    “(Rumor has it that Franken is in re-runs until the writers’ strike gets settled. Sorry; couldn’t resist.)”

    I love it.

  • Izzy
    November 27, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    Jake,

    Thank you so much for the links - although it did take me while to actually find what the legal difference are between civil union and civil marriage. Which may be why it is so very confusing - the difference is so nuanced, that to the average person, the issue gets easily confused. But, as with most societal changes, it takes a long time to educate

    First and foremost - let me state that I am all for civil marriage, civil unions - whatever you want to call it. I absolutely believe that everyone, no matter their sexual orientation, should have all the same rights and benefits.

    That being said - I am also a pragmatist and understand that trying to make a huge shift and one that is of a social nature (which just makes it harder) - I understand that this sometimes needs to be done in incremental steps - our society does not do well in making large leaps.

    Lastly - please don’t put intentions in my head “you may want Ciresi and Franken to be the same” = absolutely not. I think if we want to beat Norm Coleman - it would be disastrous to have two candidates like Franken and I absolutely believe, no, I know that Ciresi could be properly educated on this issue - he is mostly there - just is not understanding the framing.

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 3:20 pm

    Charley — Yes I know JNP is for marriage equality too and God bless him! If he were the nominee I would be happy too. I have committed to Franken and will support him strongly through the primary. But at the end of the day I want a progressive as our nominee. I think Al and JNP are both progressives and they are both right on when it comes to marriage equality. As to your call Izzy to take “incremental steps” I repeat what I said earlier — - the time is always right to do right. Let us, as a Democratic Party, do right by the GLBT community and select a nominee who is for full equality. I for one am tired of waiting.

  • John
    November 27, 2007 at 3:53 pm

    Jake, as another gay man thank you for your activism. On this issue though I think you are really mistaken about who and what has had an impact for the LGBT community. The notion that Mike Ciresi is somehow worse than Al Franken is hard to swallow. We are talking about the head of one of the best employers for LGBT people in the state, which has been that way for years. We are talking about the man in charge of a law firm that represented one of the first Don’t Ask Don’t Tell cases pro-bono, back before it was cool. The same law firm just represented and won the Sage case pro-bono, and has been a major sponsor to HRC for over a decade.

    Then let’s talk about ENDA. Mike was one of the first corporate heads in the nation to sign on to support ENDA. Even Clear Channel also is now listed as a supporter. Air America is not. Franken told people he “lobbied Congress” in support of ENDA. Well, that was news to HRC and I have news for you: unlike marriage equality, ENDA affects every single LGBT person in the country. Marriage equality is important, but it only affects those who choose to be married, and who are lucky enough to find a life partner. ENDA is an actual piece of federal legislation. Marriage equality will never be voted upon by federal office holders.

    When you actually take a look at who has done something for LGBT people in this state and this nation, Mike Ciresi has a truly stellar record. It makes Al Franken’s lip service almost laughable and it shows the notion that Franken is better than Mike for the community is totally ridiculous.

    It shouldn’t be surprising that a Franken supporter is using bullying and anger to make his point, since that’s how Franken made his name. But it is counter-productive for our community when a good man who has stood up for gay rights in Minnesota for years is attacked. Aren’t you in divinity school? Where’s the tolerance and respect that Christ taught?

  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Wow. I don’t think that is our usual John.

    Franken supporters have drunk so much of their own kool-aid, they aren’t interested in the actual facts.

  • Jake
    November 27, 2007 at 4:10 pm

    John, all I am doing is pointing out an important and signficant policy different between Al and Mike, which has direct barring on my life.

    If you look way back up to the top on how this whole post got started, I began by saying that we ought not tear others down, but rather build those we support up. I am glad you are doing so with your statements regarding Mike.

    The only statement I have made critical of Mike is in terms of his stance on marriage equality — - I think it is more than fair for me to point out this difference as marriage is very important to me. The act of doing so does not make me intolerant nor disrespectful.

    When Mike does come out in support of marriage equality I will be the first to sing his praise.

    Finally, how did you know I was in divinity school? The answer is yes I am at Harvard — I am enjoying my time out here but I miss Minnesota everyday.

  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    “If you look way back up to the top on how this whole post got started, I began by saying that we ought not tear others down, but rather build those we support up.”

    Yet, you are supporting Al Franken, who has made a career of name-calling. Again, calling your political opponents “shameless dicks” and “buttboys” doesn’t really enhance the quality of the political discourse.

  • Kollege Kid
    November 27, 2007 at 4:15 pm

    Ya know, after watching this video, seeing Franken in person, and looking at his issues, I think Franken might be the best thing to happen to the state since Paul Wellstone, and is the one best suited to carry on Sen. Wellstone’s legacy. I think he can generate a wide range of support throughout Minnesota, and, if Micheal’s comments are any indicator, the republican’s are a little worried about watching Franken give their candidate a good electoral thrashing. Of course, its not like he stands a snowball’s chance in hell anyways…

  • Jim
    November 27, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    I think comparing Franken to Wellstone is insulting to Paul. I think Michael is trying to get DFLers to rally around the Franken candidacy and, sadly, it appears that strategy is working.

  • Kollege Kid
    November 27, 2007 at 4:31 pm

    I don’t think its insulting. Franken is attempting to repeat Wellstone’s campaign strategy and is showing himself to be an honest and open representative to the people of Minnesota.
    And your giving Micheal way too much credit; I doubt his game is as deep as that.

  • Dan
    November 27, 2007 at 4:53 pm

    Um, let’s see:

    Paul Wellstone: only Senator up for election to vote against Iraq war resolution.

    Al Franken: ignored evidence and enthusiastically supported Iraq war. Continues to lie about his ever-evolving war position.

    I agree that Brodkorb’s game isn’t that deep. Franken is the greatest gift the Republicans could ask for and they should be thankful he has come to Minnesota to save Coleman. I think Brodkorb just can’t help himself, though. Or may he assumes that the DFL is so incredibly stupid that they actually would nominate a jerkoff like Franken.

  • Kerosene Hat
    November 27, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    Franken didn’t listen to Wellstone on the war, he listened to Bush. Franken is a fraud that changes his tune to fit the audience.

  • Izzy
    November 27, 2007 at 5:22 pm

    I did not see Jake being intolerant anywhere - he was doing a very fine job of articulating his point without getting nasty - which I greatly appreciated.
    He also provided some great links for better information on the issue he was defending.

    Thank you to John for sharing your information on how Mike Ciresi has been a great defender of the GLBT community on many fronts - not just a single issue. I, do, however think, on this particular issue he could be even better and I am sure, with better information he would be.

    So, given the information provided by John - does ENDA not affect you Jake? Only Civil Marriage? Please take this as a legitimate question - I am not trying to be pissy, nasty or condescending in anyway. I am truly curious.
    Given John’s remarks and the work that Mike Ciresi has done for the GLBT commmunity over many years and that he puts those words into action at his own company - I would hope you wouldn’t be a one-issue voter (please don’t get me wrong, it is an important issue and needs to be addressed).

  • Jacob Reitan
    November 27, 2007 at 6:01 pm

    Izzy — yes I care a great deal about ENDA. In fact I watched the entire U.S. House debate (6 hours of it on CSPAN) and applauded when it was passed. Al is also a strong supporter of ENDA, as well as Hate Crimes and the Perminant Partner Immigartion ACT.

    Both Al and Mike agree on a lot when it comes to most GLBT issues — they just don’t share the same view on marriage equality.

    As I see it marriage equality has become the last hurddle for many candidates to cross in becoming full supporters of the GLBT community. For instance Hillary, Barack and Edwards are each not as of yet in favor of marriage equality but like Al and Mike they are supporters of ENDA, Hate Crimes, etc…

    So as far as I am concerned it is ones stance on marriage equality that really makes a candidate stand out to me. Moreover, considering Minnesota has never had a DFL statewide candidate for marriage equality (Franken would be the first) it makes his position on this issue as brave for him as it is important for our state.

    Speaking of ENDA take a look at this video of Congressman John Lewis talking about his support of ENDA on the House floor — I find it powerful: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SEp_nsTmr7A

    For the record, Congressman Lewis is also a strong supporter of marriage equality.

  • Kollege Kid
    November 27, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    Dan:

    He believed the leaders of the free and democratic world wouldn’t lie about sending 150,000 of our young men and women into mortal danger. Did you know they were lying? I sure as hell didn’t.

    And I wasn’t saying that Franken and Wellstone would stand in the same place on every issue. I am saying that they are of the same mold, one that is unique in politics today, one that demands that they take the stand that must be taken, and can stand up before Minnesota and say “This is where I stand.” without a thousand and one polls telling them that’s where they should stand. Franken is passionate; you can see that on the campaign trail, in his books, and in talking to him. Thats the kind of Senator we need, and the only kind that can not only beat Norm Coleman, but one that makes it a win long after the election.

  • Nitro
    November 27, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    Dan,

    I think you are a shameless dick and a buttboy.

    You are a righty, aren’t you? That’s proof enough for me.

    Thank you.

  • HCDFL
    November 27, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    Kollege Kid,
    You and the other 1st time voters are the reason they are so afraid of Al. He’s not a cookie cutter copy of the current Senate and this is appealing to younger voters (The ones who would make the sacrifice of spending next 10 or 20 years in the Middle East). Is he perfect no, who is. Al is an Minnesotan/American who got pissed off and said enough is enough. He knows that things need to change and he wants to be there to help change them. My kind of guy.

  • Jim
    November 27, 2007 at 8:24 pm

    “He believed the leaders of the free and democratic world wouldn’t lie about sending 150,000 of our young men and women into mortal danger. Did you know they were lying? I sure as hell didn’t.”

    I didn’t believe them, but more importantly, Paul Wellstone didn’t believe them and said so on the floor of the United States Senate. If Al Franken was in the Senate at that time, he would not have made that speech.

    I knew Paul Wellstone, Paul Wellstone was a friend of mine and Al Franken is no Paul Wellstone.

  • Charley
    November 28, 2007 at 1:27 am

    I am just back from the DFL Senate candidate forum over at Roosevelt HS. I Don’t Hate America did a live blog, if you want a wider variety of details. But I will report specifically on the GLBT question.

    Both Franken and JNP came out unambiguously if favor of GLBT marriage rights…and calling it marriage. Both Cohen and Ciresi spoke strongly about equal rights. Ciresi said he didn’t really care what it was called, marriage or civil union or domestic partnership. Cohen’s answer was a bit more difficult to follow, but he used the Connecticut example (where he used to live) and I believe he called it domestic partnership.

    For me, Jack’s answer to the question was the best by any candidate to any question. He talked about how Republicans cannot possibly run on their record, so they use the politics of fear to divide us from each other. He said that Republicans will try to use sexual orientation, religion (e.g. trying to pit Christians against Muslims) and immigration.

    It is one of the things I like best about Jack. He sees the issues under the issues. His answer about Iran was like that as well. He talked about how bellicose threats against Iran end up solidifying hard line positions within that country, and about how the invasion of Iraq has made several other countries wonder if nuclear weapons wouldn’t have made Iraq safer against attack by the U.S. So our very saber-rattling ends up making nuclear proliferation more likely, and thus the world becomes more dangerous.

  • Kollege Kid
    November 28, 2007 at 3:19 am

    Jim:

    No he may not be a carbon copy of Wellstone, but I think he is a politician of the same mold. And 60% of Minnesotans thought military action in Iraq was a good idea, but most of them now think it was a terrible choice. He can speak to that, and demand a change of course is in order.

    HCDFL:

    Not only does he appeal to young voters, but every Minnesotan who is tired of the same old do nothing senate and the uninspiring politicians. He can appeal to the guy who doesn’t follow party politics and the gal who only watches desperate housewives and the 10 o’clock news.

  • Kerosene Hat
    November 28, 2007 at 7:37 am

    Anybody who thinks Franken is anything like Wellstone didn’t understand Wellstone. Franken believed Bush over Wellstone and the fact that 60% thought military action was called for only means that Franken is to stupid or afraid to make the tough decisions when he has to go against the current. The opposite of Wellstone. The fact he says the war was a mistake now is meaningless. Could he say anything else while running for the DFL nomination?

    It is funny how nobody is ever able to articulate why they prefer Franken to the other candidates in any meaningful way. Almost everybody seems to prefer another candidate, usually JNP, but back Franken anyway. I can only assume it is because they are somehow enthralled, like a majority of Americans, with celebrity and a shiny personality over substance and they hope that will help him get elected. Just another example of the race to the political bottom.

  • John
    November 28, 2007 at 10:05 am

    I don’t think Minnesota has ever had a state wide office holder who has done more for LGBT rights as a private citizen than Mike Ciresi. Jake, as John Lewis and you both know well, it doesn’t just matter what you say. It matters what you do. The fact that Mike has done tangible things for the LGBT community for years in this state makes me truly excited about what he could accomplish as an advocate in Congress on this and a host of other issues. There is no denying that Mike and Al are very close on these issues on paper. As Izzy pointed out, they are almost indistinguishable. But when you look at their records not just on the basis of what they have said, but what they have done, I think Mike’s record of accomplishment is very powerful and tips the scales for me. And we’re just talking about LGBT issues here, not to mention the a litany of other incredible things he has already accomplished.

  • Jake
    November 28, 2007 at 10:18 am

    This is what the live blogger at last nights debate wrote about the candidates answers to the GLBT question. I thought you each might like to read it.

    8:31 p.m.: Next question is about GLBT issues. Franken says they
    should have the right to marry which gets applause. He says hes been
    married for 32 years and its the best thing thats happened to him and doesn’t think others should be denied that right. Says we used to have laws against whites marrying Philipinos and blacks. Hopes we can look back and think that preventing gays marrying was that ridiculous. Talks about how Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate which shows it isn’t a threat.

    8:33 p.m.: JNP can’t fathom how we are discriminatory against certain groups of people. Says he is concerned that because the Republicans can’t run on their record, they will run on this issue. Says he laments the use of religion to discriminate. Says they will also run on the politics of fear relating to terror, and the politics of fear relating to immigrants.

    8:35 p.m.: Cohen says love is love is love. Says marriage is just a
    divisional word. Supports total non-discrimination against gays. Says we need to make sure there is no discrimination and we need to take action against it. Says he supports civil unions, but would support marriages as well. Says we should fight for love in all parts of our community, which gets his biggest applause of the night.

    8:37 p.m.: Ciresi says there shouldn’t be a constitutional amendment
    for or against gay marriage. Talks of his all inclusive support for
    ENDA. Thinks the main wedge issue will be immigration. Says it is
    unbelievable we have not passed an immigration bill in a land of
    immigrants. Totally blew off the question, wow!

    Here is the blog webpage:
     http://idonthateamerica.com/2007/11/27/nov-27-roosevelt-high-school-dfl-us-senate-debate-liveblog/

  • Kerosene Hat
    November 28, 2007 at 10:47 am

    Why don’t those advocating marriage equality do the right thing and try to get government out of our bedrooms rather than using government to codify there particular lifestyle. Why don’t we remove the term marriage from any state documents and simple give the right to enter into domestic contracts (written to suit the signing parties) to everybody and than simply enforce the contracts. People can call it marriage or whatever they want and have whatever church or social club they belong to hold a ceremony if they think is is an important thing to do.

    Why try and solve the problem of discrimination by joining those able to discriminant rather than fight the root of the problem?

  • Dan
    November 28, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    Kollege Kid, I did think Bush was lying. And the reason I thought so is because if there was plenty of evidence that Bush was lying. Franken ignored that evidence. And if you go back and look at news stories and polls prior to the beginning of the war, there was plenty of skepticism. A lot of the support for the war was qualified. Your problem is that you are getting your information about what was going at the time from Al Franken, and Al Franken is lying. That is what really sets Franken apart from Wellstone. Wellstone was about as honest a politician as there has ever been. Franken is nothing of the sort.

    Nitro, I have voted exclusively for Democrats since Michael Dukakis ran for president in 1988. I donated nearly $3,000 to Democratic candidates in 2006, including Klobuchar and Hatch, Jim Webb, Jon Tester, Claire McKaskill and others. I very much want to see Norm Coleman lose. That simply is not going to happen if Al Franken is the nominee. If Al Franken is the nominee, Coleman can avoid talking about his own crappy record, and make the focus on Franken’s bad behavior.

  • HCDFL
    November 28, 2007 at 2:35 pm

    Does it really matter now who did and didn’t supported George’s folly in the beginning. What is needed is a way to fix it. If we can’t ever change our minds, don’t learn from our past, we certainly don’t have much hope for the future. Why, when someone has a differing opinion, like the choice to support Al,do you assume that they suddenly get tunnel vision and no longer keep an open mind. It must mean that you have the tunnel vision for who ever you support and only get your information from him. Oh, and by the way, when talking of our own “Flip Flopper” sounds better than liar.

  • Dan
    November 28, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    The reason that it matters is that past behavior is a pretty good predictor of future behavior. Al Franken is a guy who has demonstrated horrible judgment and an inability to evaluate evidence. He was also very slow to realize his mistake on the war, opposing withdrawal and “agreeing with Bush” as late as mid-2006. The worst part is that Franken lies about his positions on the war, both in overstating the support for the war and the state of the evidence in 2003, and also his own evolving positions. While Franken certainly is a flip-flopper as well, I use liar because Al Franken is a liar.

    The biggest problem with Franken is not his war positions (although it will be difficult to distinguish him from Coleman because of those) but his history of bad behavior. The TV is going to be full of clips of Franken swearing and screaming at people, and having all kinds of outrageous things he said pulled out of context. Coleman won’t have to defend his terrible record, because the campaign will be focused on Franken defending his.

  • HCDFL
    November 28, 2007 at 3:43 pm

    Al’s living was to make people laugh. So what. DeltaDental should not and will not get a free pass from the voters of Minnesota. Minnesotans are informed voters, we can tell the difference when someone who made their living being a comic said things for comic affect (I hope I picked the correct one) and when they didn’t. Most congressmen and Americans also “demonstrated horrible judgment and the inability to evaluate evidence”, why, because Bush lied. By the way what type of a job should a representative of the people of Minnesota have?

  • Kerosene Hat
    November 28, 2007 at 4:42 pm

    Because he went with Bush instead of the senator who once held the seat he is trying to fill. Plus even if you believed Bush about WMDs there was no reason to invade Iraq. Wellstone understood this and a few others in the house did as well. The fact that Franken did not is a valid reason to disqualify him from office in the same way it should be for Hillary, Edwards, Coleman etc.. Why would anybody support a candidate at this point in the process that made the wrong choice when they could support somebody who made the right choice on the most important issue of the last 30 plus years?

    The fact that Franken was a comedian isn’t the issue. It is the fact that many of the things he thought were funny happened to be bigoted.

  • Dan
    November 28, 2007 at 5:27 pm

    A lot of members of congress opposed the war resolution, and many of those who supported it agonized over the decision and wanted to give inspections more time. Al Franken, though, wanted to go to war and spoke at a pro-war rally. When Al Franken says that everyone was fooled and that everyone wanted war, he’s lying.

    And the question isn’t whether Minnesotans can figure out whether Franken is being satirical. Its whether Franken is really so arrogant that he thinks that Minnesotans will buy his lame “satire” excuse for all the stupid things he has said. The Republicans will spend the fall taking his “satire” out of context, and Franken will be explaining and defending himself. Al Franken made a living as a satirist, but the outrageous statements he made preclude him from being a viable candidate. Its the equivalent of the Republicans nominating Ann Coulter.

  • Nitro
    November 28, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    Dan,

    You’re not being a shameless dick and a buttboy, are you?

    You kinda sound like one.

  • Dan
    November 28, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    Nitro, the funny thing is that you are insulting me with the same language that Franken uses in his “satire.”

  • Nitro
    November 28, 2007 at 8:08 pm

    It is funny, isn’t it. I agree 100%.

    Great Job!

  • Dan
    November 28, 2007 at 9:15 pm

    You won’t be laughing when Norm Coleman coasts to an easy victory.

  • Nitro
    November 28, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    LOLOLS!!

    Thank you for believing exactly what I hope you people believe.

    Great Job!!

Leave a Reply