Elected Delegates
Madia - 52.5
Bonoff - 31
Uncommitted - 3
Superdelegates
Madia - 2
Bonoff - 15
Uncommitted - 2
Total
Madia - 54.5
Bonoff - 46
Uncommitted - 5
Delegates Remaining: 53
95.5 delegates needed to win the endorsement (60%). It is almost impossible for either candidate to win enough delegates to win the endorsement on the first ballot (though, again, delegates could change their minds). The key questions then become: 1. Who has the most support on the first ballot? 2. Which way do the delegates move (even if its a small move) on the second ballot? Obviously, there is no way to answer the 2nd question ahead of time. To have a majority of the delegates on the first ballot, however, Madia would need to win all of the uncommitteds and 39% of the delegates next week. Bonoff would need all of the uncommitteds and 55%. Thats a tall order, but not impossible. More analysis tomorrow.
SD 32 - Corcoran/Maple Grove/Osseo
Total Attendees - appx 350
Bonoff - 4
Hovland - 0
Madia - 11.5
Uncommitted - 0
SD 43 - Minnetonka/Plymouth
Total Attendees - appx 585
Bonoff - 10
Hovland - 0
Madia - 8
Uncommitted - 1
SD 46 - Brooklyn Center/Brooklyn Park
Bonoff - 4
Hovland - 0
Madia - 10
Uncommitted - 0
SD 47 - Brooklyn Park/Champlin/Coon Rapids
Bonoff - 5
Hovland - 0
Madia - 11
Uncommitted - 0
SD 63 - Bloomington/Richfield
Bonoff - 1
Hovland - 0
Madia - 4
Uncommitted - 0
Totals (includes SD 42 results from last week)
Bonoff - 20
Hovland - 0
Madia - 44.5
Uncommitted - 3
Number of delegates required to win the endorsement - 95.5
UPDATE - For those of you who love inside baseball, AFSCME guru of gurus Jim Niland is working the floor for AFSCME endorsees Bonoff and Franken up in SD 46. Also, numbers should be coming from SD 32 in the near future.
UPDATE 2 - OK, this isn’t a CD 3 update, but there are over 900 people at SD 64’s convention in St. Paul. That’s a large turnout, even for St. Paul.
UPDATE 3 - Grace Baltich is now the DFL endorsed candidate to take on Joyce Peppin. Lee Carlson is now the DFL endorsed candidate to take on Kurt Zellers. SD 32 took a break for lunch. Sub-caucusing should begin shortly.
UPDATE 4 - Unofficial results/rumors: Bonoff gets a 60/40 split in 43. Madia up big in 32. Madia gets a 2 to 1 win in 46 (that’s per Joe Bodell)
UPDATE 5 - My numbers in 46 and 47 are preliminary and subject to change. The numbers in 32 are final.
UPDATE 6 - Michael reports that Ron Erhardt and Neil Peterson lost the Republican endorsement today. We’ll have more on this later, but the first question on my mind is: will Ron Erhardt run in the Republican primary or will he run as an independent?
UPDATE 7 - Numbers in 46 and 63 are confirmed by both campaigns and final. Numbers should be coming shortly in 43.
UPDATE 8 - Sill waiting for final confirmation of the SD 47 numbers (I am confirming everything with both campaigns before I say its final). Joe Bodell reports that there are at least 7 Madia delegates coming out of SD 43. That would be out of 19 total delegates. A 7 - 12 split (which looks to be the worst possible result for Madia at this point) would result in a 19.5 delegate lead (not including superdelegates) for Madia.
UPDATE 9 - The one uncommitted from 43 is still be elected as I write this, which means she/he could be in either
SD 32 Results
Bonoff - 1
Madia - 1
Hovland - 3
Ditka - 213,954
SD 43 Results
Bonoff - 2
Madia - 0
Hovland - 17
Ditka 295,877
I love it
I’ve heard Jim Niland compared to Karl Rove. How does Niland answer questions about Franken and his work comp insurance problems.
So let me get this straight:
For DFLers, a union endorsement is a good thing, unless it is the AFSCME and comes with this Niland guy (who I’ve never heard of). But some other unions are OK, some are relevant, some aren’t….
Confusing. I didn’t think the work of union support had so many shades of gray.
I’m not a DFLer. In DFL circles, I’d think an AFSCME endorsement would help. It is worth noting that Niland helped AFSCME support Mark Stenglein over DFLer Greg Gray for county commissioner. This particular endorsement made no sense. The word was that Stenglein had traded a County Board vote in return for AFSCME endorsement.
Franken has run the table on Union Endorsements, and it appears that Madia and Bonoff have split union endorsements. Niland is going to be more concerned about getting Bonoff through (to protect the worth of the AFSCME endorsement), than Franken - who is much more ahead.
“Niland is going to be more concerned about getting Bonoff through (to protect the worth of the AFSCME endorsement)”
OK, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
As i stated yesterday watch out for Plymouth. There is going to be a whole lot of something going on. Because Bonoff could well be defeated at her own home district.
The word is that Madia has scored a shutout in SD 32. He’s up in 47, tied in 46. Any other info?
I know people at 43 and 63. Couldn’t chat long, but both were saying strong Bonoff but no shutouts.
And is the info on Madia’s shutout in SD 32 accurate. If so Madia will probably emerge with a 15 delegate or so lead today!
The person I spoke with at 63 said they had some buzz indicating 32 was not a Madia shutout. But nothing firm.
I would add that 63 sounded like we should have some firm numbers coming our way soon. They got an early start.
Wow, it looks like Ashwin will emerge with about a 15 delegate lead at least. Do you think Bonoff bows out?
Bonoff’s people feel very good about next week’s conventions.
They also felt good about this week’s conventions. This race seems over. There is no way that Bonoff can make up a 15 or so delegate deficit. There is no way she’ll do better in next week’s conventions than she did in her home district. So, even if they all go 60-40 for her, she’ll still be down going into the convention
Congratulations Captain Madia.
Remember the Bonoff crowd told us they had a “commanding lead” of delegates. If she can barely beat him in her own district its time for her to bow out.
Why should she bow out? Let it go to the convention. Heck, let it go to the primary if its close. Let the people speak.
Zack, do you have any reason to believe Bonoff would be stronger next week?
She may not have a choice Dan. You extrapolate the rest of the far suburban vote even for next week and it does not look good for her.
She will not get a hung convention. The supers will jump, because the margins are so huge.
Count that an almost 21 delegate lead.
I agree with RM. This race is over. Madia will not even need the superdelegates. He’ll have well over 50% just on elected delegates, even if she wins every other convention next week — which she won’t.
I’d love to hear from a Bonoff supporter whether she will concede graciously, recognize Madia kicked her ass, or whether she will continue to tilt at windmills and continue.
Maybe the people should get a chance to speak. The fact of the matter is the Hovland would either be 1st or a close 2nd if this was a primary. I’m a bit new to following these conventions, but it has a kingmaker feel to it.
All the machinations of the opposition and the establishment has been overshadowed by Captain Madias brilliance. Hats off buddy. You will bring Dems out in droves come fall.
Because the 3rd is full of Democrats.
rm - I was trying to push your buttons on the “let the people speak” post. I know this is how candidates are picked. Hats off to you for not taking the bait.
DantheMan -
Hovland would not be 1st or a close 2nd. I have no idea on what basis you make that statement, but there is just no evidence to support that conclusion.
Let’s Get Real -
No, I have no reason to believe that next week will be better for Bonoff other than that they say it will be. I just wrote that to indicate that it is very unlikely that Bonoff drops out.
Moreover, as a neutral observer, there is no reason for Bonoff to get out now. There are still so many delegates to be chosen. The convention is less than a month away, no reason to try to shut this down before then.
Actually I like Hovland, so i did not want to criticize him.
My response, but not to be posted
, was going to be “If the election was held in the Edina Country Club”
Will someone from the Bonoff camp answer whether she plans to drop? Or are they so disillusioned that there is no one left to defend her?
Let’s get real -
It takes 60% to endorse
Yeah, but there is always an endorsement, and the endorsement goes to the person who has more than 50% going into the convention. That person historically always gets it on future ballots.
So, zack is there anyway she gets over 50
Sure. There are enough delegates outstanding that it is entirely possible that she’ll get over 50%. I am not predicting that she will, but it is possible.
How is it possible given she barely won her home district, and Madia has won every other district? I just don’t see where she picks up delegates if she can’t do so significantly in her home district.
I attended SD47 convention. Half the room was wearing Madia blue. Read the details at:
MN03: Big day for Ashwin Madia
It is looking good for the Brave Captain.
We don’t know how much Bonoff won 43 by yet. They are still subcaucusing as I write this.
She will do better than her home district in the SLP convention. Thats all.
How do you think the Bonoff campaign will spin this? Is there any reason to believe she will win any caucus in this campaign, save SD 43 , her home district.
Blah Blah Blah what are the numbers in 43?
Yes, she will win the one in SLP.
let’s get real -
I have no reason she’ll win anything outside 43, and I have no reason to believe that Madia will win anything next week. We don’t know what next week will look like.
Also, this is not a Presidential race. The impact of one convention upon another is minimal, if not non-existant. This race is almost over (CD 3 convention less than a month away) there is no reason to try to force Bonoff from the race.
But, next week’s conventions do you think she wins delegates or loses delegates?
I don’t have any basis to make that prediction either way at this point. I’m going to digest these results, talk to both campaigns and I’ll let you know what I come up with tomorrow.
Any word on when we get numbers/solid predicts from 43?
soon
Zack, I see you are backtracking as today’s results become more apparent. You started out by saying that Bonoff’s people feel “very good” about next week. Now, you are saying you have no idea whether they will even win a single convention next week.
There simply is no reason to believe that she will be stronger next week. These districts, geographically, were much better for her than next week’s districts.
I am not backtracking. Bonoff’s people do feel “very good” about next week. I personally have no data or rationale to support or oppose that feeling. These statements are not mutualy exclusive.
Zack, that is a fair point, and I concede it. Let me ask you this: In your conversations with Bonoff’s folks, did they feel more confident about next week than this week? That would be interesting. If they themselves knew that this week would be tough for them, and had more confidence in next week…
Just as i predicted yesterday. Watch for Plymouth. There will be a whole lot of something going on out there. And there is.
Madia has at least 7 delegates in SD 43! Looks like he may win it!
How mnay total delegates in SD43 ?
lgr - win what? SD 43, or CD3?
19
Yes. Bonoff’s people feel that next week will be more kind to them than this week.
Zack -
I respect your professionalism in not speculating before you have data. That is the sign of a good blogger.
I too respect your professionalism Zack. So, Bonoff’s people believe that they can make up the delegate deficit next week, I suppose. I guess that’s the only theory for staying in the race.
She’ll win delegates at next weeks conventions (she won’t ‘lose’ delegates), and it’s also worth noting that there are going to be undecided delegates who the candidates can work on in the month between next weeks conventions and the CD convention.
This race is going to be very very close.
Sean
Realize this isn’t CD3, but might be interesting nonetheless. Just got back from the SD62 Convention. Results are:
14 - Franken
9 - JNP
4 - Uncommitted
1 - Ciresi
Keep in mind this is JNP’s home district. I was part of the Franken team and we seemed to be more organized than JNP. Our district leader Hassan Mian did a great job.
Here ‘theory for staying in the race’ is that uncommiteds will be needed to put a candidate over the threshold, and a lot can happen in a run-up to and during a MN DFL Congressional District Convention. She also has a some pretty elite people to do groundwork for it.
SD 43 rumor:
10 Bonoff
8 Madia
1 Franken uncommitted
I respect Sean and Zack trying hard to be nuetral and objective. However this race is not close. Ashwin has trounced Bonoff, by any which way u can calculate it.
The only way this race will ever get close, is if all the super and uncommitted go for Bonoff.
John s — what do you mean that she has “some pretty elite” to do groundwork.
I forget to type in people, so I edited it in.
And by that I mean Klobuchar’s deputy campaign manager and some of her field crew, some of whom were with Klobuchar from pre-convention. You can talk to Ford Bell and Patty Wetterling for that groups skill in doing convention run-up work.
Still though, Madia’s got impressive numbers, but it ain’t over till the convention votes.
I agree with RM. This race is over. A 20 delegate deficit today is almost impossible to overcome. Even if she wins 4-5 delegates total next week — an optimistic scenario — she’s done. The supers will never overturn the will of the voters.
john s — if they were so good, they would not be losing so badly at every sd caucus!
I will make one of those rare posts were I pre-empt KH, but in agreement (but with more brevity and less bitterness). This ain’t the national party. This is the DFL. Party leadership can do a lot. A whole lot. And Bonoff has paid her dues, and been paying them a heck of a lot longer than Ash Madia has.
John S - that would be a huge mistake by the DFL leaders. This year’s strong turnout includes literally thousands of new DFL activists in the 3d. The best way to kill that growth is to squelch it by ignoring the groundswell for Madia.
Anyone thinks they will take this from Madia thru some backroom machinations is dreaming. I predict the various sub groups in the DFL will go ballistic and not support DFL candidates.
The biggest loss is not Madia, but Al Franken. Why, because he needs the Madia turnout in Plymouth, Brooklyn Park, and far west suburbs.
Wow, I am really shocked at how Madia is doing. I think he’s the best guy in the race by far, but it’s really sad that Bonoff has totally tanked. I know for a fact that she has really good former Klobuchar people working on her staff - if they, plus all the endorsements, can’t get her farther than these results show, that bodes really ill for her future in this race. I don’t know what Sean is talking about by saying she’s the most improved speaker - she still talks to folks like we’re fourth graders (and with that same level of sophistication).
Winning in SLP? What’s to win - 3 delegates max?
RM: Do you mean Saint Louis Park when you say SLP?
I’ll agree the Saint Louis Park convention, SD44, is next weekend.
[SD44 also includes Golden Valley and Hopkins]
I think most all of the delegates are to CD5, and very few to CD3.
I think only the very western portion of Hopkins is in CD3, and I think it equates to 3 delegates.
Even if Bonoff wins 10 delegates in SD43, I don’t see 3 delegates from SD44 getting her out of the hole.
It seems that Madia’s people are also quite good, and it seems to be an insurgent’s sort of year this year.
Thank you John S for acknowledging reality — that this race is over, and Madia has won. It is an insurgent year. Bonoff should do the graceful thing and exit.
VS - Thanks for the update. I was not aware of the CD3/CD5 split. Then she is true toast. It will be interesting to see what happens next, because I wont rule anything out.
Bonoff has support from Senator Ron Latz (SD44), and representative Steve Simon (SD44A), along with former senator Steve Kelley (as listed on her website), but her long list of supporters and endorsers does not seem to be pulling in the delegates right now.
I can’t stop praising up , but at least once more. Can anyone tell me of a bigger take down in DFL politics than this ? All from a 30 year old with no money and no endorsements.
For gods sake from the Vice President, to Speaker , to House Majority everyone endorsed Bonoff and she got a lesser % of the vote today than a homeless guy who ran for mayor in Burnsville.
RM — I couldn’t agree with you more. At this point, the DFL bigwigs should endorse Ashwin tomorrow to save face. This race is over. Bonoff got creamed. Ashwin has this in the bag. And the DFL bigwigs can either see the writing on the wall, or be further humiliated at the convention.
More complete and confirmed SD 43 results:
19 delegates selected:
Senate: Franken — 11, Uncommitted — 3, Ciresi — 3, Pallmeyer — 2
CD 3: Bonoff — 10, Madia — 8, Uncommitted — 1
I just got home from SD 43! This was an awesome day for Ashwin Madia! He took 8 of the 19 possible delegates in Bonoff’s home turf!
If that uncommitted delegate goes Madia then Ash can claim almost 50% in Terri’s own district. That is on top of Madia winning in every other convention today, some by a 3 to 1 margin!
The big question floating around that high school this afternoon was when is Terri going to bow out gracefully. Time will tell.
Perhaps, she will bow out tomorrow once the party leadership sees these results and starts back Ash Madia. This campaign is over, baby! Bring on Paulsen.
CD 4 has 1 delegate
Didn’t get Bonoff get two in SD63?
If is over for anyone it looks like it is over for Jim Hovland. No points on the board is not a good sign at all.
This thing is going down to the CD3 convention, there is no dropping out. There is also no need to for anybody to drop out, they are not waging an expensive and nasty campaign. They are phone banking delegates and having debates tops.
Let the process work, it will all be fine, we are in no hurry.
Does anybody know if numbers are out for CD6 yet?
The gap between the popular vote and the superdelegates is quite remarkable. At some point, they need to start swinging to Madia or the party is going to be severely damaged, no different than if the superdelegates swung the national election.
“Can anyone tell me of a bigger take down in DFL politics than this ? All from a 30 year old with no money and no endorsements.”
Actually, the DFL has a long history of doing this kind of thing - nominating someone through their idiotic endorsement process who has no prayer of winning the general election.
Meanwhile over on the GOP side, Neil Peterson and Ron Erhardt were denied endorsement.
Big day for Madia. He knows how to play this game.
pix from CD32 at
http://www.gavinsullivan.com
So, will Bonoff drop — that’s the rumor going on in SD 43. She knows that the writing is on the wall.
This guy Sanguin is a joke. After getting crushed today, he has the audacity to put out a release saying Bonoff will have more delegates by the time of the convention. If I were Bonoff, I’d fire someone who was so delusional about the state of the campaign. Are the Bonoff folk’s living in an alternative universe. Do they not see this campaign is over, and their candidate lost??!??
Ken Sanguin, Campaign Manager for Terri Bonoff, emailed the following press release to me:
“Just past the midway point until the 3rd Congressional District endorsing convention, the battle to replace Jim Ramstad in Congress is closer than ever. After six Senate District Conventions, with another six left to go, Terri Bonoff and Ashwin Madia are within a few percentage points in the total delegate count with more than enough undeclared delegates to make up the margin. Next Saturday 53 additional delegates will be elected to the Congressional convention and our campaign is focused on convincing the majority of those delegates that Terri Bonoff is the candidate who can beat Erik Paulsen in November, bring change to Washington and deliver results for the people of Minnesota. This is a tight race, no doubt about it, but we are confident that we will have the most delegates and be best prepared going into the 3rd District convention on April 12th.”
After the first six endorsing conventions, the delegate count, including auto-delegates, shows Terri Bonoff with 46 delegates, Ashwin Madia with 51.5 delegates and 8 undeclared delegates.
”***Does anybody know if numbers are out for CD6 yet?”***
Demrock6, link here:
***
There’s A Race, In The Sixth!
View Edit Track
Submitted by TwoPuttTommy on March 9, 2008 - 12:19am.
I had a funny feeling the race in CD3 was about over, so I thought I’d go up to Stillwater to see if they still had a race. And do they ever have a race! But before I did that, I wanted to see how the local GOPers were spending their time.
***
http://www.mnblue.com/node/1260
Unfortunately for Team Bonoff there aren’t enough SuperD’s left to pull this out for her. There are only 2 more uncommitted SuperD’s left. Madia knew that she had sewed up those SuperD’s prior to his getting into the race. But….they are only committed to the first ballot. Right?
How could Sanguin send out an email openly stating the truth? He couldn’t very well put an email to his supporters telling them that they got their butts kicked in 4 conventions, squeeked one out in her own living room and only salvaged the results by using SuperD’s, could he? He’s paid to spin positively for her. The rest of us need to read through the spin.
The people are speaking - loudly. Ash Madia is doing exceptionally well in this race and will do wonderfully against Paulsen this fall. Let’s juse wait to see how the GOP tries to make him out like a DFL’er wimp on national security and ignorant about Iraq. You could sell tickets to see Madia take him down in a debate. I’d like to see Paulsen call Madia a wimp. Not too many Marines would take that sitting down. I don’t think Madia will either. He’s someone many GOP’ers can vote for comfortably because he understands the national security issues near and dear to the hearts of the GOP.
Let’s get this endorsement over and let’s get started on Paulsen!
Super D’s have a history of not showing up! no one should count chickens before they hatch. Bonoff went after the old time party faithful, and Madia went after the people he wants to represent. The people are speaking loud and clear and I would say that is the endorsement that really matters!
It’s time for us all to unite behind our Democratic candidate and move forward to the real battle!
Ashwin Madia is ready for the general election, and will do very well against Paulsen!
I don’t think Bonoff has given up, at least she isn’t showing it if she has. I actually saw her wondering about after SD43 finished up. She clearly looked frustrated, but, was trying to rally some troops for next week.
But, she lost SD43 because Madia just commands the room. In my subcaucus, more than a third of the people had not even really heard of Madia before the morning but were blown away by the energy of the Madia supporters.
At this point, its a snowball rolling down the hill that she can’t stop.
This primary has laid bare the crony system of endorsements that exists in the DFL. My cronies endorsing your crony, and your crony endorsing my cronies.
Sure my posts are uncomfortable. But the truth hurts. We were all told how superior and wonderful Terri Bonoff was as a candidate and how she was this electoral giant. Unfortunately for them this election was not limited to the Sun Sailor ed. pages, where once again, your cronies call my cronies a wunderkid and genious, and my cronies return the favor.
What we saw is a sitting state Senator that can, quite frankly, debate and present her “views” at an 10th grade level. And Zack and Sean call that an improvement !!!.
So what happenned to all this so called “executive business” experience. Well my friends as I have stated from Day 1, any man or woman who actually makes a living in the private sector could tell u in an instant, it was never there. It was the open display of the result of a crony system that has egg on their face.
To be fair to Bonoff, I think she’s a good candidate, and, speaks to a lot of the people she needs to speak to and win. I also think that in almost any other DFL election, she would have rolled through.
Her problem is that there just are only so many middle aged women in red blazers that are willing to show up for an entire Saturday and caucus for them. And, those middle aged woman just are not nearly as infectious of advocates for their candidate as the mass of blue shirted, young and ethnically diverse crowd. The few women that were trying to swing undecideds for Bonoff were, in fact, sometimes off-putting. I can think of one in particular.
Madia’s ground swell translates well in a caucus system (case in point, Obama) but who knows how it translates into a general election. In that sense, the crony system of a caucus system wherein only the hardcore political nuts are willing to show up, may have HURT Bonoff. She may have faired better in a primary.
Bonoff just hit a buzz saw in Madia. She was good, but not nearly as good as Madia when it came to speaking and the ground game. The superdelegates just didn’t take the time to look at all of the candidates before jumping on the presumptive nominee.
What we have is Jigar Ashwin Madia bringing every person he would get in a general election to conventions as delegates. The reality is Jigar Ashwin Madia cannot win a GE in the 3rd.
If you look at the Madia delegates they do not represent the 3rd district but a few people that support him in the district.
What Jigar Ashwin Madia has failed to realize is that without the base of the party and with all his dirty tricks he will not be our nominee nor will he be welcomed as a new democrat.
Yes, the democratic party is the party of inclusion but we stand for a lot of issues. Including union jobs and union wages.
Jigar Ashwin Madia and his inability to embrace the DFL ideology came clear this Saturday when it was revealed their campaign purchased foreign made T-Shirts from Honduras.
Anyone who has been in the party knows this is a NO NO!!!!
He will not get any “Union Support” with this and like it or not… labor is a big force in the DFL.
A hard-core republican may get the republican endorsement but one who pretends to now be a democrat will not get the DFL endorsement!
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/1996/11/04/1935
WFINH
I really feel sorry for you. YOu obviously haven’t looked around yourself lately. The people representing the 3rd look exactly like the delegates at our conventions supporting Jigar Ashwin Madia.
I’m thrilled to use his full name if that makes you happy. Nothing else seems to.
WFE, TCF Bank is open on Sundays I think. Go cash your trolling pay check. That way u can buy whats on sale at CUB today. The Bonoff campaign will fold really soon, so i were u i would not waste time, because after next week the check may bounce. Get going buddy.
AS a Union family, I am here to tell you that We have no problem with t shirts that are printed on a union shop by union paid employees.
We fully endorse Jigar Ashwin Madia! His family values are our family values. Where are your family values? We see a family that loves all of it’s members and openly supports them.
Again, Terri Bonoff drives around in an Audi. She thinks outsourcing is good for companies. How does that square with Unions?
I don’t get a dime for this fun! Again, I volunteer for many campaigns and all I get is crackers and cookies laid out for the public. So I am given no more than the Madia women who stopped by to take crackers, granola bars and bottles water in Eden Prairie. Maybe the Madia women are trolls for Bonoff… your insults are funny!!!! Can you not come up with some educated debate!
I have a family and that is why I support Senator Terri Bonoff. She understands what it means to raise a family and have a mortgage. I have children and a home and am an educated professional… so your “republican-like” attacks are old. Bonoff supporters were more diverse.
I say Jigar Ashwin Madia because that is his name. I understand his father is Ashwin and the boys all have Ashwin as a middle name.
So if I say “Ashwin” then who am I referring to. Why did Jigar change his name? In college he went by Jigar!
Is he trying to hide his republican past?
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/1996/11/04/1935
If you have ever attended a DFL convention or know anything about the DFL party you know “L” stands for LABOR!
Not T-Shirts made in Honduras.
As to cars, there is no car manufactured 100% in the USA.
Jiagar Ashwin Madia is unelectable! He is a spoiler who only wishes to further his own career and himself.
Communicating at a tenth grade level is a great improvement if the fourth grade level was the starting point. This achievement in less than a year would be something for the ‘No Child Left Behind’ folks to really crow about.
Plymouth: ” … those middle aged woman just are not nearly as infectious of advocates for their candidate as the mass of blue shirted, young and ethnically diverse crowd. The few women that were trying to swing undecideds for Bonoff were, in fact, sometimes off-putting.”
This seems a bad case of stereotyping. The diversity of the Team Madia includes plenty of middle aged - and senior - women - in addition to young. And who’s to say that age or gender makes anyone less effective as an advocate for their candidate that might be of a lesser age and different gender.
Au contraire, those middle aged or senior women might just be more effective in persuading other middle aged and senior women to vote for Madia. The DFL diversity includes many in that demographic, and isn’t that what microtargeting is about?
I like Terri Bonoff, too! She’s never changed her name. And she’s always lived in our district, because she’s never traveled (which is good). And she’s never reconsidered her political beliefs and admitted she needed to change them. And her supporters have never taken cookies from the table of another candidate! And she’s white! Yay!
OK! Home work time.
Everyone go to your closet and check your tee shirts, and report back what brand name is made in the U.S.A.
And I don’t want to hear about the shirt you got in Disney World in 1976.
I want you to check the ones you got in 2008.
Yes, this is an exercise in awareness of the global marketplace.
Cutest thing yesterday….Team Bonoff’s little scheduler - you know - the pouty little young thing in her Bonoff t-shirt crabbing about the Madia t-shirts being made in Honduras….wearing her designer Joe’s Jeans made in Malaysia.
Let’s discuss the views on outsourcing….Terri believes outsourcing is good. She said so in the Brooklyn Center debate. Check the transcripts. So, why is her campaign having a cow over t-shirts?
Let’s discuss the ethnic diversity of the 3rd. Please. It’s not all white middle aged women - but there are lots of them supporting Ash, or Jigar, or whatever you want to call him.
My hubby did exactly what he did with his name. He and his dad share a name….they chose to split the names and one goes by the first, one by the middle…..for the most mundane reasons….magazine subscriptions getting doubled and canceled because they couldn’t be kept straight. Guess when this happened? After college. It’s just a non-issue.
Winning the middle aged housewife vote isn’t going to win the 3rd…..not these days. Ash is doing very well with that demographic, too, by the way.
“What we have is Jigar Ashwin Madia bringing every person he would get in a general election to conventions as delegates.”
Yes. That is how you win an endorsement. He is very good at working the endorsement.
Whoever the Democratic candidate is will have national money pumping into this race. Regardless of who the candidate is or what their message is, Democrats nationwide have ID’d this race as a priority. Money will flow. It will have nothing to do with the candidate and everything to do with this being a targeted seat in the beltway.
The winner of the endorsement instantly becomes part of a Democratic machine. No more grassroots theme — they will actually have many advantages.
I have major concerns about Ashwin Madia which I will not re-hash again. However, I give him full credit for getting his followers to the conventions en masse. That is how you win an endorsement.
I’m not sure my comments should be read as saying the Madia crowd was devoid of middle aged women. That wasn’t the point. But, the group was clearly more diverse, and, as a whole, younger than the Bonoff supporters. That group was clearly more energized and more effective at swinging others into their camp (at least at SD43). My point was that there are only so many soccer moms as Bonoff put it who are willing to dedicate a whole day to caucus. If that’s your only demographic you seem to be targeting, its a losing strategy come caucus time, at least when you have someone like Madia in the field.
WFIMH, doesn’t Madia have a number of union endorsements? I also think the consensus was that Madia won the labor debate here in Plymouth. You seem to be grasping at straws — and, are the type of Bonoff supporter that were so off-putting at SD43.
If you did a statistical demographic analysis of the delgation for each, Senator Terri Bonoff’s was more representational of the 3rd.
I am not sure “those middle aged woman” is politically correct terminology.
It is a reality that women aged 40 and above will decide if a democrat wins the 3rd.
“This primary has laid bare the crony system of endorsements that exists in the DFL. My cronies endorsing your crony, and your crony endorsing my cronies.”
Madia is about to become one of those cronies, if he gets the endorsement. He’ll have money flowing in from thousands of people who have never heard of him. He will become part of the machine that you all have been railing against.
And all this talk of Bonoff exiting the race — why should she? Or why should Hovland for that matter? They have every right to stay in. You Madia folks who are suggesting he should now automitically get the endorsement are sounding like the very insider kingmakers who you have been whining about in reference to Bonoff. You realize that, don’t you?
WF,
I wonder what part of the 3rd you live in? Have you actually been to all points of the 3rd? Do you really honestly believe that Terri’s demographics were representational? If so, we obviously do not live in the same congressional district. FYI…..I am a long time resident of SD42…..decades. The 3rd has changed and it’s just wonderful!
The soccer moms aren’t a large enough demographic - nor were Terri’s “persuaders” very nice yesterday. Their goal should have been to actually speak to Madia supporters - not just glare and be cold to them - and to get them to take off their t-shirts and put on a Bonoff button. Didn’t happen. I wasn’t there for Madia. I was there for Franken so I was a bystander who could watch the interplay. It was obvious the Madia people were there to win supporters and the Bonoff people were there offended that they didn’t have a coronation instead. Very different dynamic. Same last week in 42. The sense of entitlement by Bonoff’s team was offputting to say the least.
Persuading it to grow the group - not insult others for not choosing it.
And, yes, Ash (or Jigar, if you wish) has union endorsements and won the labor debate.
Any speculation on when Terri drops out and decides to salvage her senate seat before the GOP decides she is damaged goods and can be picked off?
WFIMH,
I’m not sure I agree with you or Bonoff that soccer moms will decide this election. There are clearly a lot of first timers coming out, willing to spend an entire day to caucus, and energized by not only the CD3 candidates, but, the national and state candidates as well.
The voting demographic I think is going to look a lot different this cycle. Madia clearly has an ability to bring people into his camp. There were a lot of people that entered that building without blue shirts leave with them. More importantly, there were a lot of people in Madia caucuses that had no blue shirts but who were either persuaded by his supporters or the candidates spending time on the floor.
My guess is that in a traditional race, soccer moms might decide the election. This year, its about capturing the excitement of the democratic party and leveraging the new comers and getting them out to vote. I don’t think anyone can argue that Madia has shown some success in the grass-roots efforts.
Funny!
I personally took a Madia shirt off someone you thought you had. We now have it! And the labor unions will get a good look at it.
Soccer mom’s are the decider’s in the 3rd. They not only vote more heavily DFL, but they are the ones to get their leaning republican husbands to switch. I witnessed it first hand in helping elect Amy Klobuchar. A friend’s republican husband voted for Amy.
My sister lives in Eden Prairie and I have lived in MN my entire life. Don’t insult me.
Jigar Ashwin Madia is a spoiler who cannot win!
Karl Rove in Our Hearts -
I am sorry when people like you have to lower the level of the debate.
Wellstone in my heart forever -
I say this as a neutral observer to this race. It is very unWellstonian of you to repeatedly refer to Ash Madia as Jigar Ashwin Madia. You would not do this if his name was Robert John Smith and he went by John Smith. I understand your rationale that Madia went by a different name when he was in college, when he was a Republican. If you want to criticize him for this, fine, but there is no reason to continue this Jigar Ashwin Madia nonsense. Its unbecoming for you and your candidate and I’d like it if you stopped.
I’ve obviously not been a Madia groupie, but I even agree: Call the man by the name that he introduces himself as.
WIMH
You could have had a t-shirt any time….they only cost $5. There was no need to try to act like it was a difficult act to acquire one.
Also, I just re-read all of the posts above….who did you feel insulted you? No one said anything insulting to you. You have been the only one with a chip the size of a 2x4 on your shoulder. As I said, I do feel sorry for you. You seem so incredibly angry.
My question to you….if Ash or Jim win the endorsement, does that mean you will be out there doorknocking for Erik Paulsen because they were both formerly Republicans and have seen the light? Is there, after all, a DFL litmus test? I genuinely hope not. I was always under the impression that this was the party of the big tent and that we could be as open minded as the GOP for accepting Normie when he changed parties…..just wondering if it’s just your anger at your candidate’s implosion.
“I personally took a Madia shirt off someone you thought you had. We now have it! And the labor unions will get a good look at it.”
Should we go through the closets of every DFLer and see where all our clothes or shoes come from? Do we check the labels everytime we make a purchase?
Stop this nonsense right now and talk about real issues. This is not going to get us (DFLers) anywhere.
WFIMH-
Get over it. If the Bonoff camp wishes to tout such a non issue over T-shirt manufacturers, we know that her campaign is grasping for short straws to look like they’re a still viable!
You’re sounding like a whiny little baby, saying “Nanner, nanner, boo, boo” because you have one of Madia’s shirts.
We all know that T-shirts for the most part are imported from overseas, even the Hains, with Michael Jordan’s names are.
I just looked at a Target Merona sweater, and it came from Hong Kong.
Ruth, just get over it.
My husband does not go by his formal first name! No one can spell it correctly! Ruth, you are really a racist, and now everyone knows it.
If you were to show up at my husband’s union hall with that shirt, they would laugh you out of the building, and my husband says that he will make sure everyone there knows all about you.
By the way, his HANES undershirts were made in Haiti, and his JOCKEY shorts came from Honduras. So get over the t shirt issue, and start focusing on how you are going to support our Democratic Endorsed Candidate.
Or have you forgotten that we are all Democrats?!
Thank you DemGuy! As someone new to Minnesota and just begining to meet those involved in DFL politics I am happy to know the name of WFIMH so that I can avoid interactions with her. I find her comments racist and extremely culturally incensitive.
To WFIMH - you should be ashamed of yourself.
I’ve re-read many of the posts (not all) and would certainly not conclude that WFIMH is a racist. I think that is taking it a little too far.
What WFIMH is saying, I believe, is that 1) A typical Bonoff supporter is more reflective of who will be voting in November, and 2) she can’t ignore the fact that Madia was a Republican going by Jigar at one time.
WFIMH - I’d recommend calling him Ashwin. Anything else appears too Karl Rovish and petty, Frankly.
Madia supporters - I’d recommend not appearing like circling hyenas when you sense someone disagrees with you.
How about just asking that cute little Bonoff employee at SD43 yesterday where her jeans were made that she was wearing under her Bonoff t-shirt? Joe’s Jeans are not made in the USA…..is everyone who wears something other than Wrangler a GOP’er and unworthy of the Dem label? I sure hope not. Most people I know shop at Target and Costco and very little is made in the USA…..with this economy, very few of us can afford that litmus test.
I hope we can all agree with are all Dems….seems to be a missing point in the Bonoff camp. Terri is a good state senator. She represents her district well and seems well liked there. That’s good for her and she should concentrate on that seat while the endorsement for the congressional seat goes to Madia (whatever it is you wish to call him) so that we can concentrate on WINNING and not complaining about t-shirts. sigh.
Let’s be honest….many people choose which name to go by when they grow up. How many people were Bobby and Billy and chose to go by their middle names when they outgrew their nicknames? Tons….my hubby did. If you look at papers published in his name when he was in college….they have a different name, too. Names just aren’t that big of a deal.
Madia was a former Republican. So? Jim Hovland is one, too. I must admit I fail to see why that is such a huge ordeal for you. Maybe it’s because I live in a very red district that is just now trending blue. Many people we see daily are Republicans and Indies. We won’t win without them and we certainly won’t win by insulting them. That is the goal, right? Winning in November?
I just called Madia’s campaign office, and surprise surprise, there were people there hard at work.
Those t-shirts were ordered and purchased from a union. 7 Corners Union I believe.
Ruth, you still haven’t answered my question:
When Ashwin gets the endorsement, would you support him? Or is his preferred middle name just TOO much for you?
While I have heard many from the Madia camp state that while they hope their guy gets the nod they will vote for the DEMOCRAT in November, the only thing ever said by Bonoff people is that it will be Terri or else disaster will strike. DTM, you need to remember who went and continues to be negative here.
Many of us were republicans before, and many of us have family members who still are republicans. Didn’t know there was a litmus test. The Democratic party would be pretty small if only “lifelong members need apply”.
Being a good party member means following Bill Clinton’s advice: campaign for your candidate, and then get in line behind the endorsement.
Somehow I don’t see the sky falling because Terri will be staying in the state senate. She does a good job there, and her district needs her to continue to work hard for them there. Besides, I never heard that there was anyone waiting in the wings to go after her job, so it might be a blessing in disguise. How would SD43 feel with Judy Johnson instead?! I bet then there would be some whine and cheese!
Bottom line, Ashwin Madia will do just fine in a general election. All of those “sky is falling folks” need to remember that he took down a Minnesota State Senator with the party machine behind her in 4 months time. And he did it by focusing on the issues and staying positive. Erik Paulsen doesn’t stand a chance!
So, instead of continuing to complain, how about learning how to work together and help us achieve our goal of winning this seat in November?!
WFIMH aka Ruth,
I’m curious.
Since you’re making much tado over Jigar Ashwin Madia’s name, what are your thoughts about Sen. Barak Obama?
Senator Barak Obama, as a youth in Chicago, used to go by Barry. What are your bigoted thoughts about that?
Senator Terri Bonoff is an Obama supporter. Terri isn’t a bigot or a racist.
Poor Senator Bonoff, I guess one just can’t pick and choose your supporters.
Let’s get real-
I in no way said the race is over, I said that Madia has proved he was a credible candidate whose shown he had more, much more, than just a nod from the Kos and the internet. And you can go ask Mark Kennedy as to what kind of ‘joke’ Ken Sanguin is.
We’ve seen some real ugliness in the last sixty or so posts, ugliness relating to Madia’s heritage. Sadly, I don’t think those are outliers for CD3. While no-one who has ever met Bonoff’s staffers could sanely accuse them of sharing those ugly views, politics is politics, and if it brings more people out to support Bonoff, they’ll know what to do with them.
Frankly, I think next week is going to answer a lot of questions about the CD3 political scene. A young, underdog candidate catching fire can bring a lot of people out who wouldn’t otherwise get involved. However, the prospect of a young, not-white congress-person in the mind of a white suburban voter could do much the same thing.
I’ll remind people of Keith’s endorsement in CD5 in 2006, when we got to see just where a lot of liberal Minneapolis residents liberalism ended. So far, CD3 has been an exciting, fun race to watch. Let’s pray it doesn’t turn ugly.
John S,
Couldn’t agree more with your comments on latent rascism in the voting population. We’ll see how things play out. I hope that those who are rethinking what they want in a candidate to go up against Paulsen will come down on the side of Ashwin Madia. He’s not just some minority candidate that has been talking into running. His US Marine Corp background, his law degree, his experience and respect from other attorneys at RKMC and his experience in Okinawa and Baghdad will stand him in good stead in the general population. People like young people who are idealistic, strong, energetic and articulate.
Hopefully some of those who have had to rethink their personal biases have already done so with the Obama/Clinton discussions right now.
I’m willing to work hard to make it happen. Our country deserves good leadership - no matter the color of the skin.
Let’s also tamp down accusations of racism and personal assaults. We have two great candidates who both have great staffs. Ken Sanguin is a top operative in Minnesota - anyone who worked on Amy Klobuchar’s campaign knows this is true. Moreover, I think its insulting to Madia to insinuate that his success is due to Sanguin’s incompetence. Here is the truth: staff make a difference, but candidates make a bigger difference. Terri Bonoff has proven to be a capable candidate (and she has improved since she started). Ashwin Madia has proven to be a great candidate. That, by the way, is not an endorsement of Madia or Bonoff. Just the thoughts of a neutral observer.
WestMD-
Those are some of the reasons I think Madia would make an excellent candidate in the general. He’s a moderate, and he’s former military, which means I think he can hang tough on national security questions far, far more effectively than Bonoff. Madia’s energy, youth, and heritage, allows a lot of the more committed liberal voters, the Wendy Wilde types who for better or worse provide the volunteer base in CD3, to get excited about a moderate ex-Republican who wore a uniform.
I mean, its easy for Republicans to talk and look tough next to Democrats. Put a guy who was in uniform in Iraq, and it turns the lights on. Your ‘tough’ ‘knows what it takes’ Republican just gets shown off as an overweight, balding stock broker/lawyer/other suburbanite who’s never heard a shot fired in anger, despite the extensive and self-compensatory gun collection. It closes a weak point a Democrat will always have in the suburbs.
All in all though, its a sign of the year. We have highly capable candidates. Over the past eight years, so many capable operatives have won their spurs on our side that a nomination race for a suburban, Republican leaning district, has attracted A-grade talent to both sides. We’d be g-d-mn fools to rip into each other too much.
John S,
Agreed 100%. Campaign staff do make a difference but there is only so much they can do. (Been there, done that, still do it occasionally.)
Military? Those credentials do make a difference in the GE with GOP and Indies. No one tells a Marine he doesn’t have a clue. Trust me. He has a clue - and more. Veterans are willing to listen to other veterans more than anyone else.
We can’t trash our candidates over stupid things - like first names, ethnic heritage, age, former political lives, etc.
We need to focus on the important things in this race - positions, issues, solutions.
Why are these people asking for our votes? What issues do we agree with them on or disagree with them on? These are the things that matter.
How is calling Jigar Ashwin Madia being a racist. That is his name. Please explain.
compliments to madia for a good day. he’s certainly the favorite at this point for the endorsement. i do think that bonoff has the profile that suburban republican leaning voters prefer (woman, moderate, business background, family) and madia has a profile that rarely wins in any congressional race in the country (single, under 30, no electoral experience). but maybe this is the year…
suggestions that terri drop out are silly. this race began a month ago and will be over in another month and if you value the dfl process, you value the right of candidates to make their cases at the convention.
i do think zack and john just made great points. for proud madia supporters to piss on terri bonoff and her staff and volunteers is political suicide. this is at best a purple district and we dflers need to stick together and show respect to the work that others have done. senator bonoff may not be the candidate for the 3rd D. but she and her supporters are not evil or incompetent and madia will need, if not every one, at least a whole lot of them. if madia wants to be the leader for the dfl in the 3rd D, he and his folks will need to show humility and grace to build bridges. it sucks to be a sore loser, it’s even worse to be a sore winner.
I refer to Jigar Ashwin Madia for clarity. His father is named Ashwin. His legal name is Jigar Ashwin Madia. I have heard Virat is Virat Ashwin Madia. Correct me if I am wrong.
Jigar Ashwin Madia is not a Jr. so one can not say Ashwin Jr.
To say Ashwin Madia, you could be speaking about his father.
What is racist about that?
Maybe it’s because of your post up above
“Is he trying to hide his republican past?
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/1996/11/04/1935“….
The only reason you bring up his first name that he used growing up was because he used it in college and you wanted to tie his college writings to him now.
There is no disrespect toward political operatives in these posts as far as I’m concerned. They are doing what they are expected to earn their paychecks. It’s the nature of the employment. Someone pays you, you do your best for them. Same in most lines of work.
Ken Sanguin is a genuinely nice guy. He’s doing a good job. Who said he isn’t?
I do believe whomever wins this endorsement will need everyone to band together to win the seat. It’s interesting that the only supporters disinterested in supporting all candidates are the Bonoff supporters. Hovland and Madia supporters are out to win the seat.
This next weekend should be very interesting.
You don’t gain the support of others by insulting them. I really do not understand why you feel it necessary to defend someone who insults people to their face.
I did not know it was a requirement to be paid to post here. You seem to make that assumption a lot. Perhaps when someone insults another, they inspire a person to respond.
I did not like Jigar Ashwin Madia and his campaign manager Cam breaking the Rules in Eden Prairie by entering a sub-caucus illegally.
I also did not like Cam insulting me. Perhaps you spoke to Cam to find out who pulled him out of the Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer sub-caucus and who he insulted and that is how you think you know who I am.
I am glad you speak to your bosses.
Me, I just get crackers… I have never asked to get paid. I generally spend more than I receive in crackers.
I volunteer every election day to get the vote out. I take the day off of work. I was in Mpls the year Wellstone died to get the vote out. We knocked on the doors in low-income neighborhoods. We drove them to the polls if they asked. I never asked for money for gas or time. I didn’t care what the color of their skin was when we brought them to the polls. These were people who had rights. I never asked them who they were voting for either.
We were outraged when the polling places ran out of ballots in these neighborhoods and worked to make sure people voted and stayed at the polls. The state had a republican Secretary of State and was disenfranchising the people of Mpls just as had been done in Florida. Many of these people were persons of color and diversity, huge DFL population. Don’t lecture me about what it means to be a democrat. You only insult yourself.
Nice try!
I hope race doesn’t become an issue in this campaign, and I think it applies to both sides. I’ve lived in the 3rd for a while and know that this district is better than that.
A skeptic of Madia can write that they question his history in and contribution to the 3rd district. I’ve seen his supporters on these and other blogs take that too far and imply that the poster wants a lifelong Minnesotan elected. As a state, 50% of our elected officials were born out of state, including our own Jim Ramstad. Don’t confuse the lack of a track record in the 3rd to voters wanting a stereotypical scandinavian minnesotan. Two different things. I stand by my comments that they only thing we’ve witnessed Madia contribute to the 3rd District of Minnesota is his own run for office.
A skeptic can write that it doesn’t sit well with them that he was making a home in Minneapolis until this Congressional opportunity came up. I’ve seen his supporters then run with that point and assert that the poster is intolerant of someone who is outside the norm of your typical Minnetonka soccer mom. No - we just like people who actually lived in the district when this seat opened up. It is a fact worth examining, not some desparate red herring. Please realize that.
A skeptic can write that Madia seems to have done an image makeover (preferred name, ideology, etc.) since we last heard of him at the U. His supporters then run with that and make all kinds of assertions of racism and inflexibility in ideas. I think part of this is that we (in the middle) saw Norm Coleman go from left to right, and then get royally disowned and insulted by those on the left. He has never had a chance with them, even though he is one of the more moderate Senate Republicans in Congress (go check his voting rankings). That tolerance you preach needs to go both ways, when you receive a promising candidate as well as when one defects.
All in all, I think Zack’s post from about an hour ago sums up what the ground rules should be. We have plenty to debate on the issues without making these points into ugly ones.
WIMHF aka Ruth-
Ashwin Madia’s father isn’t running for congress. There is no clarification needed, for all of us here. Only you, who feels that one cannot grow and change your views as you mature in life.
You’re being condescending with your comments and you need to straighten up. Get over it.
I think the Madia people need to stop insulting people. Perhaps if they acted like democrats we might believe they are.
Jigar Ashwin Madia worked on the McCain campaign before. Who does he support for the GE?
Who said that I’m a Madia supporter?
You’re condescending remarks and bigoted comments are unsavory in the Democratic Party. We don’t like your kind.
I don’t like bigots or racists, and I will call it where I see it.
End of story.
My own mother has voted Republican for every year of her mature life….but just voted for Hillary Clinton in her primary. I’ll take her vote any day.
Read the rest of the commentary about the party and how he changed his views. Read Hovland’s. They are inspiring and enlightening. There isn’t a time constraint on how long you’ve been a Dem to run for office. If so, Jim Hovland would be the one whom you would be pursuing in your personal war.
This just isn’t an issue with me now and it won’t be with the GE voter either.
I don’t think Bonoff’s staff has much to be shamed for. I don’t think anyone truly could gauge the ground swell for Madia until last week. The problem with Terri is not that her staff didn’t react, it just was in the position of reacting too slowly.
Things turned after the DFL labor debate. Ashwin came out of nowhere, and throttled the other candidates as more prepared, more articulate, and more polished. Terri and her staff worked on her debate skills in reaction and, quote honestly, looked a lot better by the SD42 debate. The problem was, there was too much buzz and it was too late.
Ashwin then surprised everyone last week with his grass roots network and getting his supporters to the caucus. Terri reacted after SD 42 to broaden her appeal. She put up the claymation video, released the upbeat polished video of SD42, and tried to appeal to a broader call. Once again, she was just two late.
My guess is that they are coming up with a good strategy today to attack this last week. However, after the results yesterday I suspect it will also be too late.
Her campaign just seems a week or two behind where it needs to be. I don’t think her staff can get too much of the blame for essentially getting ambushed by a grass roots movement (unless her internal polling showed this coming and she and her staff just put their head in the sand and thought she’d ride it out). She had happen to her what Hillary experienced last month. The presumptive nominee got ambushed by the non-presumptive, first-time, electorate.
“I refer to Jigar Ashwin Madia for clarity. His father is named Ashwin. His legal name is Jigar Ashwin Madia. I have heard Virat is Virat Ashwin Madia. Correct me if I am wrong.
Jigar Ashwin Madia is not a Jr. so one can not say Ashwin Jr.
To say Ashwin Madia, you could be speaking about his father.”
I’m sorry, but that is simply absurd. No one is talking about Ashwin Madia’s father. He is not at issue. There is no confusion on this thread about whether you are talking about Ashwin Madia or his father.
Do not insult my intelligence.
You are not trying to provide clarity. If anything, your ham handed explanation only further reveals your motives. You think, for whatever reason, that referring to him as Jigar Ashwin Madia benefits Terri Bonoff politically. I’m saying that this is unbecoming behavior that reflects poorly upon you and thereby on the candidate you support.
Moreover, as an owner of this blog, I am asking you to stop referring to him as Jigar Ashwin Madia on this blog. Please feel free to continue to criticize him for his t-shirts, his political history and whatever else you might have issue with. Also please feel free to support Bonoff in the comments. But I will not tolerate the name game.
Thank you for reading and contributing.
Norm Coleman has a ranking of about 92% voting with Bush, of course when it does not make a difference his party leadership allows him to go against party line. They recognize that he is in a tough re-election campaign and are smart enough to allow the issusion that he is moderate. Don’t just look at recent ranking, go back a bit.
As for Madia supporters, we are very tired of RESPONDING to crap and then being accused of being insulting. Perhaps the real frustration is that some of us are not willing to roll over and play dead.
And a real Democrat does not trash fellow democrats in Paul Wellstones name. I spoke to Cam about the “incident” you are so upset about. It was a misunderstanding, apologies were given and accepted, and the Bonoff camp is NOT upset about it! You seem to be the only one with a problem. Maybe you need to get over it and move on!
Your attempt to label me is insulting. I am a die hard tree hugging liberal! Your attempt to paint me as a bigot and racist is ridiculous.
I have worked with low-income people and families for many years of my life. I really do not give a rats petunia what race a person is.
I have dear friends who come from India and Madia’s heritage has no bearing on my opinion of him. I don’t like his campaign insulting people and breaking Rules. I doubt he is truly a democrat!
Can we stop trying to change the subject and talk about Madia’s lack of political experience, lack of work experience, lack of commitment to the DFL party, and rude behavior.
Oh, and the fact he is a spoiler!
“She had happen to her what Hillary experienced last month. The presumptive nominee got ambushed by the non-presumptive, first-time, electorate.”
Now that the presumptive nominee has changed, I wonder if that helps Bonoff get supporters out this weekend?
I agree Madia has been a step ahead. Again, support him or not, his campaign has been very effective. You don’t just give up a Saturday as a first-time convention goer unless there is excellent organization behind it all.
WFIMH,
I think the reason people saw you comments as racist is for the same reason the Barrack HUSSEIN Obama comments were seen as such a few weeks back. Yes, it’s his legal name, but, its also an ethnic name. When you combine that with you energy claiming that white, soccer moms are what this district is and who’s important in this district — people see a darker motive in saying things like here we have a Jigar Ashwin Madia.
I find it hard to believe that you only motive was to ensure no one knew you were talking about his father (a fantastic guy, by the way, who I had the chance to meet at SD43) or his brother (also great). No one has confused statements about “Bonoff” as statements about her husband or her parents who are also on the campaign trail and seem like fabulous people.
Norm Coleman is the 5th most liberal voter out of the 48 Republican Senators. He actually votes with conservative Democrats much more often than conservative Republicans.
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=con_composite&o2=desc#results
My point is, when a Democrat defects to the other side and becomes a Senator, he is shunned and the witchhunt begins. When a Republican goes over to your side, he is embraced with open arms. “Past? What past” Come here, candidate!”
swd - “Don’t just look at recent ranking, go back a bit.” How far back am I “allowed” to go? Because I know in Madia’s case, we can’t go back 7 years to his college writings. So can I go back 6 years to Norm’s first year in office? Where is that magical statute of limitations?
Wellstone -
We certainly can talk about those things, and I hope you do. Also, I never called you a racist or a bigot. I simply think repeatedly referring to Madia as Jigar Ashwin Madia is not appropriate.
I don’t think that Bill Clinton is a racist, but I thought comparing him to Jesse Jackson was inappropriate.
I hope that you can continue to advocate for your candidate (and criticize Madia) without doing that in the future.
Sage: ” … Madia has a profile that rarely wins in any congressional race in the country (single, under 30, no electoral experience). but maybe this is the year…”
Well, a special election in 2004 was such a year in our neighboring state.
Stephanie Herseth [born 1970] was a young 30s lawyer with no previous elected experience, who won a special election in South Dakota.
So is her district different than MN3? Well, yes it is. We can’t call it suburban because SD1 is the entire state of South Dakota.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Herseth_Sandlin
WFIMH seems obsessed with calling Madia a ‘spoiler’ and posting the URL below on two threads on this blog, also indicating an obsession with 1996 history.
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/1996/xxx . . .
Interesting that Hovland is not focusing on his history in 1996, but Bonoff does use history in her videos to inform us, without using a lot of chronology, that she was probably a single mother in 1996.
Does Bonoff’s experience as a single mother make her a better candidate for Congress than a candidate that is currently single?
Please point out my use of the phrase “white, soccer moms” ?
I do believe I gave three “Terri Bonoff for Congress” buttons to 3 African American women at the lunch rally. They were not “white” and I have no idea if their kids played soccer. Not a term I use, being as my kids never played soccer. It is rather a sexist term in my view besides. Again, nice try!
I spoke about women 40 and older, trying to clarify a better way to speak of women in this group than as the poster who called them “middle aged women” … I believe to say women over 40 is not offensive to anyone. demographically speaking they are a high percentage of DFL voters. They like Bonoff because Bonoff is a working mother and has worked for family values.
Does the Madia campaign have a problem with women over 40?
I didn’t know Ashwin was a non-ethnic name, actually never met anyone with either name before so I do not understand how Jigar is racist and Ashwin is any different. I really do not know how names have anything to do with racism. I did not learn this in my diversity classes in college. Perhaps you could explain if Ashwin is not a native name to India.
I know people from India and they are my friends. I can’t say their names are American sounding and it is fine with me. Nice people and nice family. I really don’t understand where you are going with the name thing.
Jigar’s name is Jigar. If he legally changed his name I will be happy to speak of him with his legal name.
Again, does the Madia campaign have a problem with women over 40?
Once again, my bristling at Madia’s candidacy comes from my reactions to his supporters at this site. Such venom — trying to “out” a poster and label her racist and to be avoided? Is this a witch hunt to find out who disagrees with you and then shun them? You are allienating your base. A very dangerous move if you think you could get the endorsement. You would be left with the job of beating Paulsen (big job in the 3rd for someone who has never held public office) along with swaying skeptical Bonoff supporters who you continue to insult with your rude posts.
I’m signing off of this and future cd3 endorsement threads. Maybe I’ll start lurking again when you have a candidate in April. There is nothing more I can add, and frankly as someone who is probably voting Paulsen in November, I’m not sure if you need my input. I’ll let you all duke it out, with one final thought:
I think you guys are nuts to not put Hovland up against Paulsen in the general.
Thank-you voter! I agree!
I support Senator Terri Bonoff because I believe she is the strongest candidate to win. I have always supported the person who will win first, and strengthen the party. We may disagree with whom that person might be but in the end, we need to not insult our own. I really do not like the posts I have made. I would prefer if the Madia campaign had not broken the Rules in Eden Prairie and not insulted me and other Bonoff volunteers.
It came to my attention that the Madia people were spreading false rumors about the volunteers for Terri and I got upset. We don’t grow as a party with lies. People tell me we need the new blood that Madia is bringing to the party. Yes, all people are welcome in 43, the 3rd and in the DFL. We have new people who moved from Michigan who came to a private party after the convention and they are awesome people. The DFL wants new people and they welcome volunteers. Why would we not want more help?
It must be understood though that winning by insulting people gets you no where. They believe getting the endorsement is everything. It is not.
My passions are to work for those who cannot help themselves. I have given food to the homeless and worked on homes of the poor. I was born a DFLer and will die one.
I don’t know what the Madia campaign does or doesn’t have a problem with since I am neither a staffer (paid or otherwise) or volunteer. But, I fail to see the logical connection between saying soccer moms are not the ONLY demographic that matters in November and somehow concluding that Madia doesn’t care about women over 40. Clearly Madia has lots of 40 and older women wearing blue shirts in SD43. The reason he’s been successful to date is that he has a lot of other people wearing them as well.
voter
lets not pretend that Terri Bonoff was some angle in this race. Need i remind you that she went around calling Ashwin Madia an “unemployed laywer” who never held a job.
need i remind u that suggestions pointing Ashwins ethinictiy came directly from her campaign bloggers .
need i remind u that suggestions about his domicile came directly from her campaign bloggers.
need i remind u that suggestions regarding “rumours” about Ashwin.
wfe - quit your self serving piety. You came on to this blog and insinuated about Ashwins ethnicity. If u did not support the guy so be it, but don’t pretend that u are some arc angel of Wellstonism.
WFIMH
Wellstone must be turning over in his grave if he’s listening to your comments.
Lets get back to the issues. That’s what this over-40 voter prefers that elections be about.
Ashwin has the experience, training and intelligence to deal with the national problems facing Congress today. His record in the marine corps proves he can win the legal battles and gives the DFL a candidate with a military background that cannot be attacked by his opponents.
A winning combination.
Oh, and if you would just listen to him, you would realize the passion he has for understanding all the issues, the people they affect and the thinking he has given to finding ways to begin to address problems.
The candidate I vote for will care enough to work to solve the big issues facing us today. From listening to the debates and discourse, Ashwin Madia is that candidate.
Ya know if these conventions represent Democracy in action this is pretty sad. I heard at the Richfield convention the organizers actually allowed campaign operatives into the area where the delegates were to help them with the process!
Then there is the T-shirt factor - with so many delegates donning the T-shirts of a specific candidate it makes it really difficult for one to believe people can come together and debate who the best candidate is fairly. When people go to vote they can’t enter into the polls with buttons or promotional t-shirts. Shouldn’t conventions be similar? It’s not about positions, or qualifications, it’s about who the best event organizer happens to be.
“I would prefer if the Madia campaign had not broken the Rules in Eden Prairie and not insulted me and other Bonoff volunteers.
It came to my attention that the Madia people were spreading false rumors about the volunteers for Terri and I got upset.”
Either elaborate on these accusations or stop making them.
My convention is next week, and I am looking forward to the debate and what candidates have to say about their experience and commitment to serving the district.
I’m not formally decided but am leaning Bonoff. I can tell you that the intellectual dialogue on Saturday morning will be my deciding factor - not how many blue t-shirts there are or where I feel the momentum is.
I vote for a public servant, not a campaign.
I was at the SD43 convention yesterday and there was a surprising amount of people supporting Madia. As a committed DFLer and a progressive, I don’t understand this. Would someone comment back to this and clue me in to what I am missing here. This is the difference in the candidates as I see it, and I am not a staffer on any campaign. I will be volunteering for Terri.
Bonoff did not promote Bob Dole in 1996 in the MN Daily Newspaper. Madia did.
Bonoff did not work on the John McCain campaign in 2000. Madia did.
Bonoff did not wait until 2002 to quit the Republican Party. Madia did.
Bonoff has owned a house in the district and has lived here, paid a mortgage, taxes, raised children and worked in the schools - Madia? No.
Bonoff has won two campaigns in this competitive district. Madia? No.
Bonoff has held high level positions in the private sector for years. Madia? No.
Bonoff spent more than 6 months at her job in the private sector. Madia? No.
Bonoff has high visibility having won the State Senate seat in a surprising upset. Madia? No.
Honestly, I believe that Ashwin Madia might make a good candidate, after:
• Working in the private sector longer to gain credibility.
• Running and winning a campaign on a more local level before trying for a Federal office.
• Showing the DFL that he is as progressive as he says he is, given his conservative history.
Finally, if being a veteran was an election winning issue, then John Kerry would be President right now. It is not the swaying persuasion point that the Madia campaign is selling.
This is such a clear cut difference to me that I can not see how he has gained the support that he has. What is it that I don’t understand? And, I mean this in a very respectful, thoughtful, but passionate DFL tone. I am a delegate and I take this very seriously.
“I personally took a Madia shirt off someone you thought you had.”
You can get a Madia shirt but I am ashamed to see “someone you thought you had” and you preach about breaking rules.
Integrity is the most important virtue.
Shame on you and that someone else for being underhanded.
It’s not helping your cause at all.
Tonka DFLer:
Here’s an explanation of what you might be missing:
http://www.mnblue.com/mn-03_why_our_brave_captain_is_winning
With a title of “Why Our Brave Captain is Winning”, is it really an unbiased answer to Tonka DFLers serious question?
you mean Tonka DFLers serious question was unbiased ?
I think the point he makes in the post is that Madia is winning because of his message.
Tonka DFLer is right that on paper Terri’s the far better candidate. But Madia’s got a better message and that’s what’s put him in the spot he’s in.
Whoa, rm. Chill out. I’m just trying to gather information here.
Is it the message, or the organization? From reading several DFL-oriented blogs, there is no doubt Bonoff and Madia’s messages are different. One message may resonate with one, and the other with someone else.
It seems where Madia has excelled is his campaigns ability to stack conventions with bodies. I’m not saying that in a bad way — that is how the system is set up. Madia’s campaign deserves full credit for understanding the system, right?
Does anyone know if that last debate (the Eden Prairie one) is on a video clip anywhere? Thanks.
Wellstonian
Madia did not stack the convention. He convinced people to come and spend a day with him. His daddy was no big politician that he could pick up the phone and hurl bodies at the convention.
His antagonists like tonka-dfler have a sense of entitlement, that people like Captain Madia have to “wait in line” until the party elite decide when its time for him to run.
I have a message for them. Wake up. The world is changing. Our country is a land of opportunity and Captain Madia made use of those opportunities to make himself an outstanding citizen and leader. And guess what, the people have decided he is one. In America, you are not entitled to a post. You earn it.
People have seen thru the smoke screen about Terri Bonoffs claim that she was some high powered executive, when she never was except at a company of her family friend.
“Bonoff did not promote Bob Dole in 1996 in the MN Daily Newspaper. Madia did.”
Bonoff is taking money from Republicans. Care to check her campaign finance report.
“Bonoff did not work on the John McCain campaign in 2000. Madia did.”
John Kerry asked McCain to become his VP in 2000. Did u vote for Kerry.
Bonoff did not wait until 2002 to quit the Republican Party. Madia did.
Why is Bonoff taking money from Republicans. What next a donation from Rush Limbaugh
Bonoff has owned a house in the district and has lived here, paid a mortgage, taxes, raised children and worked in the schools - Madia? No.
Madias family own a house and raised their kids here. Got a problem that they had to move around to make a living.
Bonoff has won two campaigns in this competitive district. Madia? No.
The district in which she almost got beat, is 10% of the entire CD3.
Bonoff has held high level positions in the private sector for years. Madia? No.
AS I HAVE POSTED ABOUT A THOUSAND TIMES ON THIS BLOG. THIS IS ABSOLUTE BALONEY. She was never a high-level executive in Tonka Toys and joined Navarre, a company run by a family friend, as a PR lady.
Bonoff spent more than 6 months at her job in the private sector. Madia? No.
Madia spend four years putting his life on the line as a Marine. Bonoff ?
Bonoff has high visibility having won the State Senate seat in a surprising upset. Madia? No.
Visibility for what? When was the coronation that we all missed.
We don’t really want to start talking about Terri Bonoff’s private sector experience, do we? Bonoff supporters might want to check what’s in that closet before opening it.
“Finally, if being a veteran was an election winning issue, then John Kerry would be President right now. It is not the swaying persuasion point that the Madia campaign is selling.”
If hanging around politicians at the state house is an election winning issue, Roger Moe would be Governor for Life and Steve Kelley would be Attorney General for life.
Why can’t u guys just figure out that Captain Madia is a smart and able citizen. And 75% of Sundays delegates agreed. Are they all so naieve that they were all duped and only Terri and u know the real truth.
“We don’t really want to start talking about Terri Bonoff’s private sector experience, do we?”
You mean that “Senior Level Executive Business Experience” !!!!. It was on full display during the debates !!!!!!!
Thanks, rm, for your point of view. I’ll consider it as I gather all the fact. Anyone else?
Was the final debate televised? Is it online anywhere?
Thanks.
I can only find clips of it online: http://www.mncampaignreport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1137
björnkram:
If you did not hear in an earlier post, the Rules violation happened in Eden Prairie. I was in the back of the convention near the candidate tables, and US Congressional candidate Jigar Ashwin Madia and his campaign manager Cam Winton and another man briskly walked past. I went after them to see what the rush was. I watched the three men enter the Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer sub-caucus which had moved up a short flight of stairs while the floor was frozen and they were getting ready to elect delegates to the state and congressional conventions. They spoke to several delegates in the frozen sub-caucus with Madia shirts on.
I got another person and we pulled them out of the sub-caucus. I told them they were in serious violation of convention Rules by entering a sub-caucus like that. Madia said he didn’t know it was against the Rules and I said, you know better, you know what the Rules are. This is when Cam began insulting me.
Jigar Ashwin Madia is a lawyer and his family were Rules Committee members. If he was unaware of the Rules, he is not ready to be in Congress. The other possibility is he lied.
After they were pulled out, Cam went up the stairway and approached the sub-caucus from the stairway. He pointed and gestured to the group trying to get them to look and follow his lead.
I got a woman who has been with the DFL and is a party leader and super-delegate to the National Convention to get him out this time.
He again, insulted me.
The never left the JNP sub-caucus alone. They had 6-9 Madia volunteers circling them the entire time until they were done voting.
I heard rumors, that the Madia sub-caucus in Eden Prairie would not allow their delegates to vote on state and congressional delegates but slated the delegates and then had them vote on alternates who will not be allowed to sit I am sure. This came out as many complained.
Fist of all, I am a Terri Supporter so of course I am biased. But, I listened to both of them speak about the issues, and carefully considered what each candidate brings to the campaign before I decided to support Terri. And, I completely support the idea of grassroots organizing. If Madia wins because his campaign works harder than Bonoff’s, good for them.
Steve Kelley ran a good campaign and the vote went about 7 ballots at the State convention, I was there. Hatch lost the general election because he was a terrible campaigner and his running mate didn’t know much about ethanol. Moe was worse, I didn’t even vote for Moe.
This is a serious conversation, and extremes like “coronation” don’t really serve the discussion. I have paid attention, met them in person, talked to them on the phone, been to their web sites and read their positions. After all of that and given Madia’s conservative history, I cannot see how progressives can support him.
Also, the demographic in SD43 is economically and socially diverse and is a good reference point to the entire CD. Plymouth is more conservative and Minnetonka is moderate.
Finally, Obama is drawing support from all political groups. Why wouldn’t Bonoff want to do the same thing? If Republicans are giving to Terri, what does that say? If you look at the fundraising data for any major candidate from the FEC, you will always see donations to both candidates from people with money. Hedging a bet either way is very common. Sure, It looks weird but it is not remarkable in the slightest.
I will go to that post and read it to become enlightened.
Thanks, bjornkram!
I’m going to email the campaigns tomorrow to get more background on a couple questions. Before I do, can anyone here save me the trouble? Here is what I have:
?? for Madia:
- What was his exact role as a Marine attorney? Was he part of a supporting team defending the “don’t ask don’t tell” case, or the lead guy? Any more info around his exact role, or was more of an associate attorney-type (comparing to private sector)?
- Did he show any signs at all of involvement / participation in 3rd CD politics (local involvement, DFL activism) before this run? The past year? High school? Or is his first foray into grassroots politics as a Congressional candidate?
?? for Bonoff:
- Has she had any involvement in federal issues? For example, in her role, does she interact with Ramstad currently on policy discussions?
- What was she doing at the time of her election to Senate? Full-time Mom or was she working (rm - you don’t need to remind me here about your personal questions regarding her work experience).
?? for Hovland:
- What can he show us that Edina made strides that would appeal to Democrats during his tenure as Mayor?
Wellstonian
I’m sorry my post, the second half of my post should have been directed to tonka-dfler
tonka-dfler
You claim u want a serious conversation, and then post a bunch of Bonoffs talking points.
You seem to have a big issue that Madia was a Republican, while brush aside the fact that Bonoff is taking money from Republicans. If you wonder how progressives will support Madia, you may also want to wonder how progressives will support Bonoff when she is taking money from people like Hubbard of Hubbard Broadcasting (A.k.a - Right wing radio).
I repeat, there is a sense of entitlement on the part of some Bonoff supporters, that she was entitled to this seat. For gods sake, she came in with every possible endorsement in the state, more money, more recognition, and still got beat. That must count for something.
It’s not the experience that matters. If experience was the key, then Cheney and Rumsfeld would have been great for me. What matters is what informs their decisions and their judgement. Terri is middle of the road, I wish she were slightly more left. However, I know how she has voted and why. That is a good indicator of how she will perform in Congress. We discussed the transportation constitutional amendment last year, and she was able to explain her vote, how it mattered, and what the compromise was. I was glad to hear her point of view and was satisfied by her explanation. I don’t like constitutional amendments and direct democracy (or super delegates) for that matter. But, politics is complex and not nearly as neat or simple as most would like to believe. I understand that even if I don’t always like it.
The point is, it has nothing to do with federal experience. Madia has shown alliances to candidates and campaigns that I do not support. It should not be surprising that I do not trust how he would represent me on progressive issues. I know where Terri stands. I may not agree with every vote, but her decision making process is sophisticated and sound.
That is what counts for me. Others will make their decision based on something else. I am trying to get a feel for what that is because I want to understand it. What is wrong with that?
And, those aren’t talking points. I wrote that to a friend of mine that became a Madia delegate. And, Hubbard was also at the big DNC party when MN was in the running for the convention. Odd, as I said. Wealthy people have their hands in both pies. It is what it is and it has no bearing whatsoever on the Bonoff candidacy.
Terri Bonoff has taken money from rapid right wing republicans like the Hubbards. Not some moderate middle of the road Republicans.
She has repeatedly fibbed about her “executive business experience”, fibbed on her campaign mailings and lied to delegates in her calls to them.
To me that shows that she will do anything and say anything to acheive power. She feels she is entitled to it. And thankfully the common folks in the district see thru it. How can anyone trust her ?
Whats wrong with me questiong Terri Bonoffs candor and honesty either?
Those are nothing but Bonoff talking points. Which fortunately have not worked. Bonoff has had 5 debates to prove her so called experience. Its not like they just picked a date and called an election. She could not. That says something.
Taking money from people like Hubbards has a huge bearing. If she claims that she is a true democrat and is talking money from right wing radio stations, I question that. And i am sure a lot of people question that. What is her judgement ? Who next ? A donation from Rush Limbaugh is OK ?
“He (Mike Hatch) criticized Hubbard because campaign finance reports show the media owner contributed $10,000 to the group, A Stronger America-Minnesota, which is running negative ads against Hatch.”
So its ok for Terri Bonoff to take money from people who actively swift-boated a DFL guberinatorial candidate ???
I have never heard of anything like what I found out on Saturday at sd47 the convention about Bonoff PAYING young, college dems to show up at conventions for her “presence.”
I was chatting with a cute JNP volunteer girl (or staff member??) who was clearly not impressed by me because she was checking out this “hot” (her words) guy in a red T-shirt. For whatever reason, I thought it was Bonoff’s son (saw his picture on Bonoff website a while ago). It was not.
She kept talking about wanting to talk to him, so for whatever reason (maybe this is why I never get the girls- I’m too nice) I went over, and asked him if he was Terri’s son. He said “No- not her son… just here for presence”. After some friendly chatting he told me that he was being paid by Bonoff to be there “for presence”.
He said “don’t say anything, please but…” and went on to tell me that Bonoff went to some College Dem meeting and told the group that if they “wanted to make a few bucks” they could come to these events and wear Bonoff flair and be her presence.
He continued to tell me that it was an easy way for him to make some cash, so he wasn’t really a supporter. He even commented on my Madia button and said something along the lines of- “That guy is amazing.” He said at least three times not to “say anything” to anyone, so part of me feels bad for writing this, but I will not include his name. I only got his first name anyway.
I find it very interesting that Bonoff has to PAY people- young, attractive college kids- to come to conventions and wear Bonoff buttons and shirts. It doesn’t seem honest.
City Pages - Nov3 - 2004
“The Hubbard family has done more than their share to ensure that George W. Bush and his Republican allies remain in power. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, in the last two years patriarch Stanley S. Hubbard and other family members have doled out at least $143,000 in political contributions, primarily to Republican candidates. ”
And, dear progressive DFLers, Terri Bonoff has no problem take money from the Hubbards.
I have known Terri since 2005, and I have never once sensed a feeling of entitlement from her or any of her supporters. I know many of them. Committed? passionate? Sure! Entitled? Not slightly. Just nice people. In my experience, Terri has always been sincere, gracious and grateful for and to her supporters, that’s all I can say.
And, about the “talking points”. I don’t think a lot of people know that much about Madia’s past. I have been paying attention and I only found out about this on Thursday by chance, reading a blog. Imagine my surprise. If the Bonoff campaign was spreading this information, I would have heard about it. I worked on both of Terri’s campaigns but was still open minded when I met Ashwin. I still made my decision based on the strengths of the candidates. It seems to me that Ashwin is doing well because of the organization of his campaign. Laurie Pryor worked on the Kerry campaign and the Kelley campaign and she knows what she is doing when it comes to grassroots organizing.
I still don’t know what his convincing message is, that’s what I’m trying to get at.
Hey there Wellstonian,
I would be happy to respond to the question about actions Hovland has taken in Edina that would appeal to Democrats.
For starters he has been a huge supporter of environmental issues. He stepped up and signed on to the Mayors Climate agreement. He did receive some heat for that from some of the more conservative members of the community. But that didn’t stop him from continuing to stand up for energy/environmental issues. He created the Energy and Environment Commission and then signed on to ICLEI - and international organization that makes it possible for communities to measure their CO2 footprint and take steps to reduce it.
Hovland has belonged to the League of Women Voters Edina for several years (not just for men ya know). He is there for women’s reproductive rights. He is the ONLY candidate running in CD3 who supports single-payer universal health care. This is huge - Bonoff and Madia have policies that merely tinker with the status quo. The US is the only industrialized country in the world that doesn’t have a single-payer system. To date Representative Keith Ellison is the ONLY Minnesota elected official to Federal Office who has signed on to the single-payer health care legislation - we need another representative who gets this issue. Too many people can’t afford coverage. This is a big deal even in Edina - people don’t have insurance - or they have children or grandchildren who lack coverage.
Hovland is active at the State Capitol on transportation issues. He understands the need for investing in the basics and in transportation alternatives
As for style - Hovland has boosted transparency enormously during his tenure - before he took office City Council meetings and Planning Commission meetings were not broadcast - now they are. Hovland is known for reaching out to members of the community - opening up the process and getting people involved. There is a lot for DFLers to like. He would make a fabulous US Rep.
DemureOne
Could you tell me what Hovland did for low income and minorities in Edina ?
I know a lot about “A Stronger America” The lit pieces that were against Hatch used a picture that I took, they lifted it from Hatch’s web site. Anyone know a good IP attorney that will take my case?
Imagine how I feel about that one. You don’t have to - I’m NOT HAPPY!
tonka-dfler - “I have been paying attention and I only found out about this on Thursday by chance, reading a blog. Imagine my surprise”
Can u show me which blog you found these set of questions. I would be interested.
While Ash Madia only won 8 of the 18 (44%) committed Delegates at the SD43 election, that’s pretty good considering it is Terri’s home district.
If the numbers above are accurate, at the other 5 convention elections to date, 44.5 out of 65.5 committed Delegates (68%) are committed to Madia. If he wins that same fraction of the remaining 53 elected Delegates he would have a total of 90.5 Delegates. That is five Delegates away from the 60% needed for endorsement.
It would be truly remarkable if all the 15 out of 19 Superdelegates you show as committed to Bonoff disregard the votes we have experienced at our Senate District conventions. I would expect many would take this into consideration and move to Madia.
It would seem less likely for a large number of elected Madia Delegates to switch to Bonoff. At the end of the day, at least 60% of the Delegates will vote for one of our Candidates.
This contest is far from over, but the trend so far looks very favorable for Madia.
I wish I knew, I was surfing around looking for the delegate count for SD42 and I happened upon it. I really don’t know. It could have been MNcampaign report but I don’t look at too many blogs, I most likely searched ” delegate count SD42” or something similar.
tonka-dfler
you have these detailed set of talking points about Madia, you claim u found it on a blog, and now u claim u don’t know which blog you found it on. Wow !!!.
what a coincidence, I may be aware of some photographers in Minnetonka. They may help you with IP issues. Wait ? You may want to ask Terri Bonoff, she may know some photographers in Minnetonka area !!!!!!
Dude, it is what it is, ask my wife, ask other delegates that I would happy to provide a couple of names. I don’t work for the Bonoff campaign. I will be, but I haven’t done anything this year campaign wise other than become a delegate for Bonoff/Franken/Obama.
I have no motivation to deceive you and I am happy to see if it is still in my history. As I said, it was an easy search to find it.
Zack: “It is very unWellstonian of you to repeatedly refer to Ash Madia as Jigar Ashwin Madia. You would not do this if his name was Robert John Smith and he went by John Smith. I understand your rationale that Madia went by a different name when he was in college, when he was a Republican. If you want to criticize him for this, fine, but there is no reason to continue this Jigar Ashwin Madia nonsense. Its unbecoming for you and your candidate and I’d like it if you stopped.”
WFIMH appears to be good at pointing fingers at others for not abiding by rules, but chooses not to abide by them herself . . .
Regarding Wellstonian’s ?? for Madia:
Madia’s website gives a general explanation, I think, of what he did as a Marine Corps lawyer.
- What was his exact role as a Marine attorney? Was he part of a supporting team defending the “don’t ask don’t tell” case, or the lead guy? Any more info around his exact role, or was more of an associate attorney-type (comparing to private sector)?
The Manual of the Judge Advocate General (JAGMAN) provides for one officer to represent (defend) one service member before and Administrative Board, which is the body that reviews the case of a member being reviewed for retention or considered for recommendation for separation by reason of homosexuality. [The military does not have large numbers of lawyers at all the duty stations, so they don’t do things in a team approach like you may be accustomed to in civilian firms.]
The Administrative Board is typically three officers, who review the evidence and make a recommendation on retention (or separation) that goes to a Marine Corps office for final decision with endorsement of the member’s commanding officer (or the convening authority of the Administrative Board).
So I’d say the ‘Don’t Ask’ case was just one of several cases Madia would have been assigned during his career as a military lawyer. But it’s significant since separation is the usual result of Administrative Boards reviewing cases of members recommended for separation on the basis of homosexuality, so Madia was successful in defending his client.
Dude, the text search alogorithm of google is a reapeatable one. Somehow it does not find these talking points on any blog, neither did i come across them on any Minnesota politcal blog i am aware of. I wonder why ?
For low and middle income families Hovland supported and continues to support the work of the Edina Housing task force. And I hate to keep coming back to this but the fact that he supports Single-Payer Universal Health is a big deal for low and middle income people. Why can’t Bonoff and Madia step up in this area.
The thing about Hovland is he gets the connections between the issues. Global warming for Hovland is about social justice - as the environment declines so do peoples lives - one of the reasons why he supported the forum on Darfur that was held in Edina.
Demure One
And what did Hovland acheive with the Affordable Housing Task Force in Edina ? Did he build more affordable housing in Edina, Are more minority children represented in after-school activities in Edina. I would be interested in knowing.
I searched my history, Wednesday, March 5th, I did this google search:
sd42 convention results
— — — — — — — — — — -
Then, went to these two sites:
http://www.mnblue.com/mn-03_sd42_roundup
http://www.mncampaignreport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1142
I don’t see it on the front page so I must have linked into comments. If you search those sites, I am sure it is there.
I was still very suspicious because I don’t believe anything until I research it. I then searched: ashwin madia former republican
and then found a link to Emily’s list with this text:
http://www.emilyslist.org/candidates/terri_bonoff/
— — — — — — — — — — -
Besides Bonoff, the Democratic field includes two former Republicans: Ashwin Madia, an attorney and former Marine who volunteered for John McCain’s 2000 presidential bid; and Jim Hovland, mayor of Edina, who donated $1,000 to President George W. Bush’s campaign in 1999 and to former GOP Rep. Mark Kennedy in 2004. Bonoff, Madia, and Hovland will abide by the endorsement of Minnesota’s Democrat-Farmer-Labor Party, which will be made in April. Bonoff, as an accomplished Democratic legislator, is favored to get the DFL endorsement.
— — — — — — — — — —
Then, I searched: ashwin madia mccain republican
and found this page:
http://mnpublius.com/2007/11/madia-the-dfler/
— — — — — — — — — — -
Must I go on? is the great conspiracy over?
I am a dogged researcher, when I want to find something, I look. And look.
tonka-dfler - so you find this detailed list of Bonoff talking points while web searching. But somehow when u try the same search again you can’t find it. Do u know that Google keeps an indexed cache of scanned data, so what u claim is an impossibility in for such a search.
And now you post more Madia “the Republican” links.
If you ever wonder why Bonoff is loosing and so badly at that too, I think you have just answered it yourself.
Oh rm this is really frustrating because you don’t have a handle on basic processes inherent in the governmental action. Hovland supports actions necessary for change - and the changes he seeks are in line with the DFL platform. The Housing Task Force investigated the housing needs in Edina - as with other segments of the metropolitan area people are being priced out of their homes. Elderly individuals on fixed incomes are having a tough time maintaining solvency… People are seeing their children being unable to afford to raise families in the community where they grew up. Does support of the task force result in more minority children being represented in after-school activities? If you are asking me to substantiate a specific outcome from one factor I can’t. Edina is part of the NAACP action as are many suburbs - we have children from Minneapolis coming into the school district. We also have immigrant families moving into the community.
I hate to keep coming back to this but establishing single-payer health care would go a long way to leveling out the playing field for all population groups. Again why can’t Bonoff and Madia support this?
RM: I don’t know if I misunderstood your post. I found the information about Madia (and his response) on a blog. The “talking points” are mine and only mine. They are my opinion and not any representation for the Bonoff campaign. As I have said, that is what I have been thinking about, and am trying to better understand the obvious support for Madia. I wrote those points to a friend as a not-so subtle attempt to see if I could still sway her. The note also included jokes because I am only politics 98% of the time.
You asked me how I found this information. I have provided the exact searches that I performed and the results. I only did it because you asked me to because you didn’t believe me. If I wanted to get that information out, I would have looked for it in advance and just put it in my very first post.
I think you are completely missing my point.
Wellstonian,
I am glad you’ve focused the debate away from what really was devolving into useless personal attacks.
I can’t answer all of your questions, I am quite confident the campaigns will be more than willing to answer for you — they were when I was undecided. I can, however, tell you why I came out the way I did after considering all three of the candidates, I think, fairly closely. I listened to all of them give their stump speeches, was able to ask them all direct questions, attended both debates, and was at SD 43. For full disclosure — as I’ve said before, I now support Aswhin.
First, civil liberties. As I’ve mentioned previously, I’m an attorney. I care deeply about strengthening our justice system so that it can protect individual rights of both citizens and non-citizens. Ashwin is the only candidate, I feel, who has made an effort to put this at the forefront of his campaign. I suspect this has to do with his experience, for example having worked in Iraq as an attorney and on don’t ask don’t tell issues. I suspect this might be because he himself is a minority, from an immigrant family, and has a close connections to LGBT issues. It feels as though the other candidates might support civil liberties, but, that neither will really make an effort to fight for it on their own. I feel like it will be a priority of Ashwin to forward legislation on torture, unlaw detainment, discrimination, etc. I want someone fighting for these issues, not just supporting them.
Second, his delivery. All of the candidates have good messages, but, I feel like Ashwin has the power of persuasion to energize an entire room. I think Hovland is quirky and seems like a great guy to be a friend with. I feel like Bonoff speaks to a certain group of people, but, Ashwin is both a powerful speaker and has a powerful presence. When it comes to bringing out votes, I feel like Ashwin has the greatest ability to connect with new voters and energize the vote turnout. The reason there seems to be so many blue t-shirts at these events, I think, is because he’s able to get people excited. Perhaps its because I’m in the business of persuasion, but, even if the message is similar, I’m going to go with the one who can delivery it better.
Third, his profile is unique for a democrat. A marine captain who fights for LGBT issues (among others)? Let’s face it, the GOP always plays the military card. I honestly don’t know how the GOP goes after him without it backfiring. Are they going to say, you were a republican before? That won’t work. Are they going to say, you lack the experience to deal with issues that have a national importance? They can’t go there because he’ll cite his work in Iraq. He lacks legislative experience, but, he can always come back that he was out in Iraq building a government. And, I don’t think “I’ve been a politician longer than you” is ever persuasive to voters. Real life experience matters.
Fourth, he doesn’t waiver. Take his position on Iraq. It’s by far the most conservative among the DFL candidates. A lot of DFLers want out of Iraq and they want out NOW. It would probably get him votes to join the chorus. Instead, he sticks to his guns. Pull out, but do it sanely. Again, I think this is his military experience talking. Or, take his position on the tax rebates. It’s easy to say “I support giving you $1200.” Especially to voters that might be struggling economically right now. Yet, he sticks to his guns and says it’s a bad idea long term. For a first time politician to show the guts to not cave to what people want to hear is very powerful.
Fifth, he seems more prepared. I watched the debates and I’ve talked to each candidate. I don’t know if the other candidates are just being conservative, or just haven’t sat down and thought about the issues as much as Ashwin, but, Ashwin always seems to be more on top of the issues. He’s more studied. Ask him a question and he’ll give you five explicit prongs of attack to address that issue. A good example is his green economy plans. All of the candidates indicate that they support green tech. Ashwin has repeatedly demonstrated that he knows what technologies he wants to push, how he wants to do it, and what it means for Minnesota. Basically, I feel like he’s working harder (perhaps because he needs to since he was an unknown) to earn people’s respect and to convince people he knows what he is talking about.
I’m glad you are taking the time to study the issues. You are the type of voter that makes me excited to be in the DFL. I also think the Ashwin campaign is the one that is going to embrace that sort of voter the most. Ashwin seems to be the candidate that will spend as long as it takes to convince you that he’s your guy. I can speak to this personally since he came back to me over and over until he knew I was in his corner.
It’s that relentless pursuit of voters that, at the end of the day, sold me, and I think, several others.
No DO, i do understand govt pretty well. And you don;t have to explain affordable housing to me.
All i asked was what did Hovland directly accomplish. Because you told me he wsa this progressive mayor. So what u are saying is Hovland appointed a Task Force for affordable housing in Edina. Ok.
Next time someone wants affordable housing in Edina, I will tell them that the city appointed a Task Force and Edina si part of the NAACP action and to wait another 10 or so years.
Now regarding minority after school participation in Edina, I guess nothng was done either.
tonka-dfler
first you post talking points. then you claim there were found on a blog. then i ask u to show me where u found them. now u claim you wrote them up. Wow !!!
I don’t know why people are continuing to discuss the Bonoff candidacy. It’s over. They are down 5 delegates, and they will be down even more delegates after next week. They will lose even bigger next week because she doesn’t have any home district. Is there any reason to believe they won’t lose even more delegates.
And Madia doesn’t need Bonoff. He beat her without the Democratic establishment, and he’ll beat Paulsen without the establishment. He’s a young version of John F. Kennedy — charismatic, bold, and the future. And he will go straight to the voters, and doesn’t need the establishment. He’s that good, and he knows it. He thinks Bonoff is a joke, which she is compared to his skill and campaign.
This is over, and Bonoff should just accept reality.
I never claimed to find the “talking points” on a blog. Show me what you misunderstood to be that claim.
Let’s get real:
It’s not over. Bonoff is down but it takes a 60% majority vote to get endorsed at the CD convention. Without 60%, it can go all the way to a primary. We are a month away. That’s a long time in local politics.
It is over. Any time a candidate gets more than 50% they win on second-balloting. Name a time that a convention has decided on “no endorsement.” It will not happen here. The supers will go to Madia on a second ballot. There is no precedence for no endorsement.
If Madia goes in with a delegate lead — which he will — this is over. The only ray of hope for Bonoff is she wins big next week. But, it is impossible to see how she does that given that she has lost big in every single SD convention other than her home district.
Even Bonoff supporters acknowledge she’ll lose next week as well, and there is no reason to think she’ll be competitive.
This race is over. Ash supporters don’t need Bonoff. We beat the establishment once. We’ll beat them again with Paulsen. This is a movement, and people better stand out of the way. Ashwin is poised to make history, and there is no stopping him.
tonka-dfler - “I never claimed to find the “talking points” on a blog. ”
HERE ARE YOUR OWN RESPONSES.
tonka-dfler - “I have been paying attention and I only found out about this on Thursday by chance, reading a blog. Imagine my surprise”
rm - “Can u show me which blog you found these set of questions. I would be interested.”
tonka-dfler - “I wish I knew, I was surfing around looking for the delegate count for SD42 and I happened upon it. I really don’t know. It could have been MNcampaign report but I don’t look at too many blogs, I most likely searched ” delegate count SD42″ or something similar”
So now you claim you never stated that u found them on a web search.
Nordic,
Thank you for your articulation. You put forth an excellent summary for why you, and thousands of others including myself, support Ashwin.
Enough of these personal attacks. In the end, they are just splitting the party.
First and foremost, I support a Democrat. That Democrat is Ashwin Madia.
“I have been paying attention and I only found out about this on Thursday by chance, reading a blog. Imagine my surprise”
That is exactly what I said. That I found out about [this] “as in Ashwin Madia, a candidate that I have been watching for 4 months and considering supporting is a former Republican and I didn’t know it”
I did not say that I found those lines on a blog, I said found out about this (as a subject) on Thursday. I give in, it was Wednesday and I apologize for that. I hope we don’t get all Clinton/Starr here and argue about the word “this”. I think that my post was clear and did not claim that I found that text, only the subject.
Ash Madia is bigger than the party. This guy is a phenom. Talk to his supporters, and they know Congress is just a first step. He then will run for Senate in a few years. This guy is star, and Bonoff and others should clear the way. He’s on a roll, and there’s no stopping him. This is a movement. Bonoff should not stand in the way. It’s time for her to bow out. This race is over.
rm - “Can u show me which blog you found these set of questions. I would be interested.”
tonka-dfler - “I wish I knew, I was surfing around looking for the delegate count for SD42 and I happened upon it. I really don’t know. It could have been MNcampaign report but I don’t look at too many blogs, I most likely searched ” delegate count SD42″ or something similar”
So i ask you a direct question as to which blog u found them to which you respond and “I happened upon it” and now u claim you never stated that you found the questions on a blog.
You are dreamers if you believe the Bonoff delegates are going to vote for Jigar Ashwin Madia.
If it comes down to 50/50 on the vote or anything else.. Bonoff will never go for Madia. I have been to conventions many times and if the tide turns labor turns it… and we know which direction that goes. Bonoff has the support of the party.
Jigar gets his money from outside the state of MN and his treatment of Bonoff volunteers at conventions will not allow him to go anywhere. He has lost any hope with his campaign’s rude behavior.
“That Democrat is Ashwin Madia.” - not sure anything here is true. I do not believe he can win and I do not believe he is a democrat.
THE ENTIRE DEBATE IS TELEVISED AT DEMOCRATIC VISIONS, CHANNEL 15 in the cities of Edina, Eden Prairie, Hopkins, Minnetonka, and Richfield.
3/11 at 10pm
3/15 at 9:30pm
3/19 at 10:30pm
3/22 at 8:30am
3/22 at 9pm
3/23 at 10pm
The show is about 90 minutes. It does include the campaign videos that were supposed to have been shown on the 27th for the Bonoff and Madia campaigns. The Hovland video was not delivered until after the videos were given to Comcast.
Also, Eden Prairie News will be linking to the video and providing the broadcast schedule through their website, too.
Independant delegates will not hang the nomination for the sake of Terri Bonoff, who got beat, and handily at that too. The people have spoken and i don’t beleive it can be with a clearer voice. She will loose on the 2nd vote.
WF,
I do believe most Bonoff delegates will vote for Madia because they are Democrats and they want to win. None of them are interested in tilting at windmills. They’re not seriously going to vote for Erik Paulsen.
Ashwin, as Zach asked you above to call him, gets his money from national groups as well as all over Minnesota - just as Terri does. They are fundraising the same way.
I do feel sorry for you. You seem so incredibly bitter. It’s one thing to advocate for your candidate. It’s another to show this incredible hostility against another Democrat. Time in the party is not what makes one a Democrat. If that were the case, many wouldn’t pass your purity test. My Democratic party accepts all comers. Doesn’t yours? I could swear I listened to Howard Dean talk about the big tent, room for everyone, open to all comers. Did you miss that speech?
The campaign’s rude behavior that has been documented is the Bonoff campaign. You need to listen and not just pontificate.
WFIMH aka Ruth-
Get a life!
Not one volunteer from the Bonoff camp helped SD42 at Eden Prairie High School clean up from their well organized convention. It was all Hovland and Madia who had trash cans on wheels going from table to table helping out.
We even had to contact the campaign manager to tell him that his volunteers left signs outside of Eden Prairie High School, which should have been removed as they exited.
We had to urgently email the campaign manager that his volunteers didn’t clean up after the convention, like they should have.
Not very team orientated in my mind…
The last thing the state DFL will want to do is to become the laughing stock of a nation. Because that is exactly what will happen if they try to push aside a Marine Veteran; who beat a sitting state senator with almost every endorsement conceivable; and that too when he beat her in almost every district in the race.
WF,
You are bitter. Will you not acknowledge that Madia is a rising phenom, has ambitions and potential to be a Senator, and would be so much better to support than Bonoff. Bonoff will get crushed on a second ballot. The party recognizes Madia for the star that he is, and Madia knows how good he is and has huge ambitions. They will not let go of such a star. Bonoff is toast, and Madia doesn’t need her. He will win this by continuing to defy the establishment, and building the grassroots campaign. Madia is better than the whole establishment, and has his own following.
The Bonoff delegates will not vote for Jigar Madia. They do not like him and he cannot win.
He is a spoiler.
Bonoff delegates are hard-core democrats and they do not vote for pretenders.
His behavior will surely kill any chances of future runs for office.
Just what is he “spoiling” other than Terri’s coronation? Winning the seat for the DFL for the first time in almost 50 years isn’t a “spoiler” in my book. It’s a new congressman who will serve us well and ably for many years.
I’m quite sure that you are mistaken. Terri is a Democrat. She is a strong DFL’er. When she drops out, she will encourage the party to back the nominee - just as others would if she would be leading. Your bitterness is clouding your judgment.
Hard-core Democrats have not won the CD3 in almost 50 years. What makes you think they’re going to be the winners this time? This seat will go blue but only with the right candidate. Not a hard core Dem but someone who can actually speak to everyone - energize, excite and lead - to victory. Ash Madia is a strong advocate and spokesman for the 3rd CD. He’s a great candidate and will be a great congressman.
WFIMH aka Ruth-
You’re the spoiler, you’re the one with the chip on your shoulder.
Take deep cleansing breaths!
When is one a “pretender” and when has someone been in the party long enough to qualify as a true-blue DFL’er? What’s the line? Is it 2 years? Is it 5? Is it born into it? What’s the magical line?
This type of ideological purity test doesn’t work for way too many. The party could meet in a phone booth in the 3rd if you instill this type of purity test.
Again, Madia doesn’t need Bonoff. He can win this with his own grassroots base. The national party will jump on board. Bonoff’s supporters will realize that Madia is going to be a Senator one day, and is leading a movement, and will jump on board. Madia defied the establishment, and won. He will beat Paulsen with the same strategy. He is his own phenom, and his followers are passionate believers. He needs nothing other than his own charisma and volunteers.
WF, it doesn’t matter one bit that you or some hard core Bonoff folks won’t support him. He won’t care, and neither will his supporters.
Before I found out what I did on Wednesday, it came down to this for me: A candidate should consider strongly running for lower office and getting experience and build party support before running for a national office. That was my first problem. Next, he had a job at a prestigious law firm and left within a year to pursue being a Congressman. This to me shows a lack of commitment unlike his experience in the military, where I am sure he did a fine job.
You just don’t quit a job like that, that soon, and run for congress. It doesn’t make any sense no matter how passionate the candidate. I learned this from a former congressman that also lost his first race because he was not ready. I agree with that philosophy and that is why I initially could not support Madia.
What I am most excited about is that Madia will win this without being beholden to the party. He is bigger than the party and doesn’t need it. He is building his own party and will take over this district and the state.
WF, it will give me so much pleasure when Madia is a Congressman here despite not having Bonoff or her supporters. He will win by being a true grassroots candidate, and will not need nor solicit the establishment.
Again, this race is over, and let the general begin!
tonka-dfler - Say, did you “find” any more talking points about Madia.
Strange, isn’t it , your “tale of the talking points”.
First u tell us “u found them”. Then when I ask you where u “found” them u say u wrote them. Then when I remind u that u said u “found” them, then u claim u did not say u found them. This kind of reminds me of Bonoffs campaign at this moment. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.
Thanks for the info, Nordic, and others.
To say Madia is a phenom and bigger than the party is maybe a little ambitious. I’ve been researching and watching video clips. I wouldn’t yet put those kinds of labels on him. Plus, I actually don’t like candidates using my local offices as a stepping stone.
Hovland is impressive. To do what he has done in Edina — he probably has the most to go on of all three when it comes to verifiable results.
Oh, anyone have thoughts on the other questions I had asked?
Does Bonoff have an exposure to federal issues in her current work (most likely through Ramstad)?
Has Madia ever stepped foot in a DFL 3rd CD event or activity when we wasn’t trying to get elected to Congress?
Sigh…all of the hot-air exchanges mean people won’t discuss policy on this blog. Why, in this day and age, won’t Bonoff and Madia support single-payer universal health care?
Wellstonian,
I know Ashwin has worked on a number of campaigns (republican and democrat. but, most recently democrat) and I believe some of those are CD3. I would encourage you to give his office a call. I have no doubt Ashwin himself would answer all of your questions, and, as I previously said, I have no doubt he will stay on the phone as long as it takes to convince you that he is the right candidate for you — or, at a minimum, that you have all of the information you need to make an educated decision whether or not to support him.
I will add one other point to my above post. I have no doubt that Bonoff brings some great experience to the table — both legislatively and from the business world. I would be lying to myself, however, if I wasn’t at least partially concerned about the business side for Bonoff. As a parent of a young child, I felt somewhat betrayed by the toy industry (where Bonoff came from) and the consumer product safety commission. How lead, a substance that in any quantity destroys future intelligence in children, ends up in toys is perhaps one of the most shocking developments in recent history (perhaps I’m overly sensitive as a new parent.) I asked Bonooff about this directly when I had the chance. To be fair to her, she gave a reasonable answer as to where her loyalties would lie if faced with the inevitable question of increasing government regulation of her former industry, but, it wasn’t an answer that left me 100% sure.
I know where Madia would come out on this issue, and, its sufficiently important to me that I didn’t feel like it warranted taking a chance on where Bonoff might end up. Let’s face it, its tough sledding cracking down on your former employer/co-workers. Again, I guess it comes down to the type of experience between the two candidates (I’m not forgetting about Hovland, I just think it would be near impossible for him to come back into a competitive place in this race now.) Madia is younger and doesn’t have the legislative experience Bonoff has (unless you count his student body president experience at UMN). But, he has the experience that I feel prepares him for the position. As an advocate in both private and military service I think he is more than capable of advocating for CD3’s interests in Congress.
To answer a (zealous) Madia supporter above, I also don’t think he’s thinking Senate now. As an initial matter, he strikes me as fairly humbled by his success in this race. To the extent others have anointed him as the new Barack, I don’t think he’s buying it — at least not now.
It’s also not logical for him to be thinking short term about jumping office. At a minimum, he’d be 6 years away from the office since there is no viable election approaching. Given the way the party is swinging this year, it seems quite possible that both Senate seats will be held by DFLers meaning he’s nowhere near having even a shot at a senate seat (I think most DFLers will think, hopefully) He’ll be in CD3 for awhile if elected, and, I’ve seen no indication that there’s anywhere else he’d want to be.
Incidently, on this issue, only Hovland really has an edge over the other candidates. The reality is that Bonoff has only been in her SD43 seat for a couple of years. It too, would be mere stepping stone to a higher office. That said, I think all of the candidates aren’t thinking in terms of what’s next after a CD3 congressional seat.
I think they all three think they can (and would) do good things. I just have come to the conclusion that Ashwin is better tooled to make waves, get elected, and get things done. He also seems most inline with my, somewhat particular, ideology.
Have fun at your convention next weekend!
Nordic, great analysis again!
I would like to remind everyone that some of our greatest and strongest democrats used to be republicans!
Hillary Clinton was president of College Republicans!
Jim Webb served under the Reagan Admin!
I could go on, but I think you get the point. This is a complete non-issue and making it one is a desperate tactic.
WFE posted: “Jigar Ashwin Madia is a lawyer and his family were Rules Committee members. …. The other possibility is he lied.”
I’d like to point out I was on the Rules Committee for SD42, and, in fact, there were NO relatives of Captain Madia on that committee.
One possibility is that WFE was mistaken when WFE posted that; anyone want to take a stab at what another possibility might be?
Jigar Madia has no history of doing anything for the democratic party. Therefore he is a questionable candidate. Considering his behavior and the behavior of his people, he is not a democrat in my definition.
Democrats do not break Rules to get the endorsement. Jigar Ashwin Madia did that when he entered the frozen floor to instruct delegates on how to vote for their state and congressional delegates. This is a huge Rules violation. Your attempt to identify me shows you must have asked Jigar and Cam who pulled them out of the Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer sub-caucus in Eden Prairie.
So you have validated that Madia broke the Rules of the SD42 convention.
Hiding from your past does not change it. What a person needs to do is show they have changed. His experience in college taught him dirty tactics which I read was rampant during the Madia years.
If he made an effort to work for the issues and values that DFLers hold dear I may trust him. I voted for Judy Dutcher as a delegate. She proved to me she had changed, I have not heard anything from Madia to prove he is anything but a republican.
He claims he was raised republican and that is why he was a republican. His writings show he was very right wing. So now that he is running for congress the whole family are democrats and people have a right to question the validity.
Your argument is that Bonoff is the establishment and they do not allow new people in. That is pure garbage. New people enter the district all the time and take on leadership positions. I meet new people all the time. They are nice people, friendly, they share the values of DFLers, it is a breath of fresh air to get in a room of fellow DFLers.
My experience with the Madia campaign brings a feeling of tension and combative behavior. They are insulting and rude. They walk into people and act like nothing happened. They call non-Madia people names. In my 30 years of actively being a DFLer, I have never encountered a group with such negative energy.
Thanks all! I’m very much looking forward to it. I’m going to contact offices today, but will leave you with a few thoughts:
Someone said that Bonoff looked better on paper. Actually, Hovland looks the best on paper. I’m surprised he doesn’t have a better turnout.
Madia is an exciting new candidate. I, however, fall on the side of the fence of being a bit uncomfortable by the fact that he “just showed up” and we know nothing about him. Your point on Bonoff’s toy industry experience is a case in point — we can inspect her work history and find blemishes. When it comes to Madia, the points I really need to know about his history are either a) non-existent because it is so limited b) classified, or c) off-limits, because the campaign is telling us to not consider his U of M days. That just feels to abstract for me.
Bonoff is exciting as well. She doesn’t have the military delivery style to her speaking, but she does have passion. I’m only concerned that she is still getting her feet wet at the State level, and here she is going federal.
This will come down to Saturday morning for me. If I learn anything of general usefulness in my calls to the three campaigns, I’ll let the group know.
tpt - “One possibility is that WFE was mistaken when WFE posted that; anyone want to take a stab at what another possibility might be?”
Just as the Bonoff people are possibly paying “walking money”, could it be possible they must now be paying “talking money”.
you had “tonka-dfler” who first claimed he found “talking points” on the web, then could not find the web site he found them on, then said he wrote them himself, then said he never claimed fo have found them on the web.
AAh the last gasp of a crumbling campaign. The “kitchen sink” from the Bonoff campaign is coming hard and fast.
That kitchen sink is so unneccessary; I can’t stand a scorched earth finish to a campaign.
Gavin Sullian - as usual - has a great take on this race:
http://www.gavinsullivan.com/
“One possibility is that WFE was mistaken when WFE posted that; anyone want to take a stab at what another possibility might be?”
I think most of Ashwin’s family lives in Plymouth. At least, they all seemed to be delegates in SD43. I think WFE is as well. So, if his family was on the rules committee, it would be the SD43 rules committee, not SD42.
WFE, I’m also struggling to understand two of your arguments. The first is that labor only supports Terri and would only cut for Terri come convention time. How do you reconcile this with both candidates having an equal number of union endorsements? Having attended the labor debate here in Plymouth, I did not get any sense that the room was all Bonoff, or all Hovland, or all Madia. In fact, the people around me all seemed to walk out Madia supporters.
I’m also not following your lack of DFL work argument. As far as I’ve heard (correct me if I’m wrong) he worked on the campaigns of: Grace Baltich, Andy Borene, Sen. Satveer Chaudhary, and Wendy Wilde. All DFLers. Is that not an example of working for the DFL, indeed CD3’s DFL? I know a lot of people who have shifted democratic the last 8 years, and, indeed, Ashin has gone through a lot of life changing events over the past 8 years that would convince a lot of republicans to think blue. I’m not seeing the issue.
I’m stating the obvious, I know, but the unresolved questions on each candidate will be greatly magnified by the press, Republicans, and moderate voting public in a General Election.
Madia: Lack of any type of history to review or verify. About-face on political ideology. Moved to district only after seat opened up.
Hovland: “Rich-guy from Edina” rap. Disorganization at grassroots level. Seemingly last-minute change of party.
Bonoff: Lack of clarity in some presentation settings. Almost lost home district in convention.
And for that matter, Paulsen: Voting record more conservative than the 3rd typically votes. Serious, reflective guy - not gregarious.
Whoever gets it - these questions will not go away, but rather become more visible and outside the candidate’s control.
Madia’s father was on the rules committee in SD43. That is probably the confusion.
Agreed, blogger, 100%. And, in the GE, I’d rather see Madia or Hovland against Paulsen to make their own case. There should be no questions from the GOP side about changing parties - these would be the people who wholeheartedly embraced Normie.
Bonoff seems to continue to be singularly unable to articulate federal issues in a debate or forum comprehensively and cohesively. She seems disjointed and wandering in her responses, and less compelling than either of the other two. In the GE that counts for a lot.
Hey tonka-dfler did you ask the Bonoff campaign for the name of a photographer to help you with your IP issues. I’m very sure they know one.
Also i’m still confused where u found those “talking points”. Did u get any new ones from the Bonoff campaign this morning.
I don’t need a photographer, I need an attorney. Regarding the “talking points”, I won’t dignify a response about it. Everything that I wrote is on this page. Anyone that cares as deeply as you should read it. I expect this kind of tone at MDE, I am surprised to find it here.
tonka-dfler - I won’t dignify a response about it.
So you really won’t tell us where u got your “talking points”. Awwwww thats too bad. First u tell us u got them from the web, then u claim u never got themm from the web. Kinda hurts your credibility.
Tonka dflr - While you search for more background info on Madia, try using his full name, or just Jigar, (even though that’s now considered racist by this blog’s readers). You’ll find his name on a nice list of the top 10 best things to happen for conservatives at the Univeristy of Minnesota when he became the student body president. I know his supporters will say he changed his mind, but the only public documentation you can find that speaks to his political actions is his history as a conservative — working on a campaign to defeat Phyllis Kahn, promoting Bob Dole, bashing Bill Clinton, and on and on. I get that people change their philosophies. The trouble I have is he has no public record of changing his philosophy. No experience working for dflers within the 3rd, no public office, nothing. Only what he tells me. I can’t help but feel wary.
Tonka-dflr,
Ashwin was an IP attorney
voter
when u search for things on Bonoff search her Campaign finance reports. You may not find some year 2000 baloney. But I promise you that she is taking money from characters like Hubbard of Hubbard Broadcasting.
As recently as the last election cycle Hubbard was giving money to PAC to defeat DFL candidates. And Terri Bonoff has no problem taking money from Hubbard along with ohter Republicans.
God, Hubbard is one sleaze ball IMO. Got to wonder what Terri is upto. Is she really a Democrat. I’m starting to wonder ?
Voter, Have you ever served in the military? If you had you would understand that you choose the name by which you wish to go - usually one that you can shorten for a nickname (or to dump a nickname you never wanted to carry into adulthood). I knew quite a few guys and gals who were Donnie’s and Billy’s who chose to change their names to their middle name when entering the military or shorten their names to a more “adult” name. Can you honestly argue that someone joining the Marines shouldn’t choose the name that they wish to carry with them into adulthood?
Have you bothered to actually LISTEN to Ash (note shortened nickname) Madia? He will articulate his personal philosophy quite well for you. Philosophy hasn’t changed…..he’s still a fiscal conservative, social liberal. I am, too. Maybe that’s why I agree with him. Like many Republicans (like Hovland), their philosophy didn’t change as much as the GOP changed and left them behind. Many GOP’ers have changed parties and I hope that trend continues.
You should ask his campaign which campaigns Ash has worked on in the past……they have not been all GOP….he worked on Wendy Wilde’s campaign - I did, too. She moved to the 3rd to run that race (after the endorsement, I might add). I guess what was good last time isn’t good enough this time for you - but it was for Terri. She endorsed Wendy. I guess things change, eh?
voter
One thing i promise u wont find. Any public record of Terri Bonoff being this high powered executve at Tonka Toys.
Now isn’t that funny. She claims she was this high level executive but there is no proof of such a position at Tonka Toys a division Fortune 500 company. Now Terri Bonoff is not fibbing is she.
Not just endorsed Wendy, even praised Wendy. The local DFLers even invited Wendy to one of their featured events.
tonka, I’m surprised, too.
And it needs to stop. NOW.
Paulsen can be beaten like a cheap drum, but only if we’re firing on all cylinders.
Voter,
See my post above. Unless someone can prove he didn’t help those DFL campaigns, I don’t see the point of the DFL loyalty argument. Further, pointing to what he thought back in undergraduate school almost a decade ago makes no sense to me. Since then, Ashwin:
- Was sent to war;
- Witnessed America dismantle fundamental civil liberties;
- Saw first hand how American’s image abroad has been tarnished;
- Experienced first hand discrimination against gays;
- Worked with homeless people;
- Worked with battered women;
- Watched the country turn its back on veterans (again);
- Watched the GOP drop all sense of fiscal discipline; and
- Watched the GOP get overtaken by zealots who don’t care about social issues important to him.
I don’t know if Ashwin has fundamentally changed. From what I understand he’s always been socially liberal, fiscally conservative. But, any one of the things on the above list can change someone. Seeing first hand what your county is or has become changes a person. Show me something from the present that tells me he’s a republican. That he won’t fight for what’s important to the DFL.
The reality is no one has any federal legislative history in this campaign. We aren’t talking about incumbents here. We have to take them for their word on their platforms. We know no more about how Terri Bonoff will react to a federal issue than we do Ashwin or Jim. What we do know is that Ashwin has LIVED a number of key democratic issues and that those issues have shaped him so much so that he quit his job and is fighting each day to fight for those issues in Congress.
Plymouth Dem:
“Tonka-dflr,
Ashwin was an IP attorney”
I know! I think that is hilariously ironic. I was going to mention it but I didn’t want to get RM all worked up. Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.
Tonka-dfler
Actually i think what got you all worked up is trying to cook up an answer as to where u got your Terri Bonoff “talking points”. You must be dizzy going round and round in circles with your answers.
One question on that Tonka Toys experience that remains unanswered today but has been asked several times: During the time period that Terri was at Tonka Toys the company began outsourcing many of their jobs and people in Minnesota lots theirs. She has never discussed that yet has openly stated at the Brooklyn Center forum that outsourcing is good for the economy. Anyone know whether or not she was involved with the outsourcing and saw how good it was for the local economy at Tonka Toys and how wonderfully local Minnesotans felt about this?
I prefer someone who has lived their ideals - not just talked the talk (the “I support the troops” crap versus actually understanding the troop issues).
I sit on the endorsements committee of the DFL Veterans Caucus. We didn’t endorse Ash Madia because he is a veteran. We endorsed him because of his understanding of veterans issues and how they are separate from “I support the troops and end the war”. He knows what issues veterans face. It wasn’t a “pillow” endorsement. It was substantive. Jim Hovland also had good answers but not in the ballpark of Ash Madia. Out of the endorsement balloting, Ash ran away with the votes, Jim Hovland also received support but Terri’s responses received absolutely none. I can only hope she outsourced the answering of the questionnaire to someone else and that they submitted it without her input.
Ending the Iraq war responsibly is just. All 3 of these candidates want to end the war. They have varying opinions on how and how quickly. That is acceptable. The difference is that a federal legislator deals with veterans issues - not just the vote on ending the war. Constituency services is about much more than just “end the war - support the troops”. It’s about knowing what veterans issues are and having a clue about what to do about them. Asking for an endorsement by a caucus based on veterans issues one would expect the candidate to at least figure out what those issues might be. It shouldn’t be too much to ask.
Okay People, are we all Democrats or aren’t we?!
It is one thing to back a candidate, it is another to spend all of this time as Democrats trashing Democrats. The republicans reading this blog must be laughing out loud at all of this, and taking notes!
The reality is this; we will have an endorsed candidate on April 12. We will ALL be expected to get behind our candidate on April 12 and work towards the general election in November. Too many people here are forgetting that our goal is to WIN THE SEAT IN NOVEMBER!
As of today, Ashwin Madia is winning this contest. I know that this is very hard for you Bonoff people to accept, but you will have 3 choices come April 12. Suck it up and support our endorsed candidate, pick up your marbles and go home and sulk, or vote for Erik Paulsen. I say this because Terri needs to pick up EVERY SINGLE DELEGATE at the next 5 conventions, and it is not possible for her to do that! Without that outcome, she does not have a chance. And super delegates are only bound by the first ballot, and they have to show up to even count (and party people know they don’t always show up). Terri’s campaign knows the fight is over. They have not updated the website since Saturday, and they have not sent out any emails to supporters. Ken Sanguin sent out one press release that no one saw. Last week we were bombarded with emails and convention info was all over the website starting immediately after the SD 42 convention. Quite a difference now.
Trust me, I know what disappointment is, I still think WESLEY CLARK should be our president, but as disappointed as I was, I folded in and supported John Kerry.
Terri will continue to work at our State Senate and will continue to be a good representative for SD 43.
Get a grip! J.Ashwin Madia will be a lot better than Erik Paulsen and we need to all work hard to send another Democrat to Washington!
Southwestern,
Well said.
Voter: “I get that people change their philosophies. The trouble I have is he has no public record of changing his philosophy.”
That life changing experience might be called the United States Marine Corps.
Four years [or even 3.5] is plenty time to see that the body armor and the vehicle armor are inadequate, and to research why a country sends their Marines to combat zones without proper equipment. When you find it’s because the SecDef says it’s because ‘You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want,’ you know the administration has failed to provide proper support for the troops, and you have that ‘Road to Damascus’ moment that changes what group you identify with as matching your ideology. It’s the party of Byron Dorgan, Senator of North Dakota [featured in the documentary film, ‘Iraq for Sale.’], who convened hearings [as chair of the Democratic Policy Committee] to investigate contracting and other failings in Iraq. [Unlike Senator Norm Coleman, who chaired the Senate Committee that was tasked with the responsibility of investigations and failed to convene a single meeting].
Because the military has strict regulations [Standards of Contact] about what military members are allowed to do for political action, most people in the military that have those ‘Road to Damascus’ moments do not make a public record of changing their philosophy. They wait, like J. Ashwin Madia did, until after they have taken off their uniform to announce that they have changed the political party they identify with.
Hear, hear - Virtually Speaking! Thank you for articulating it so well. It is also known as “come to Jesus” moment by many on the ground. It happened to General Wesley Clark. It happened without final conversion to General Colin Powell. It’s happened to many along the way. Being in a war zone and seeing the way troops are treated makes a huge impression on one’s life after the military.
As a longtime former military family, I can attest to the fact that while on active duty, your allegience is the the President and the country and not a political party.
Ashwin Madia says it was while serving in the Marine Corps and being deployed into Iraq that changed his views, and i respect that and I believe him.
On a personal note, we considered ourselves republicans until Ronald Reagan gave all of the defense money to civilian contractors, on only 2% raises to active duty servicemen and women. He also changed the GI Bill, and did this while waving the flag and talking about supporting the military.
But I guess for some of you, we aren’t good enough Democrats either.
I am certainly not belittling his miltary experience and it makes sense to me if he was in Iraq, that would be enough to change his allegiance. But the fat is, if we elect a dem to the white house, we’ll leave Iraq, regardless of who is the 3cd rep. There’s more to the position. Israel, Korea, education, health care. He’s got no track record. That will be a lot of fun for Paulsen and we’ll have a right winger in our seat.
“But I guess for some of you, we aren’t good enough Democrats either.”
I don’t know what you mean by that but I want to be very clear about issues concerning any constituency. This applies to military, veterans, new party members, GLBT etc.
Everyone in the DFL that I have come in contact with in the last 4 years has treated others respectfully and has been very inclusive. The old DFL was more back room dealing. The new DFL with a huge crop of us taking on leadership in 2004, is very welcoming, inclusive, and positive.
On a personal note, I have the highest respect for people like Tim Walz, Jim Bootz and others in Veterans Caucus or Constituencies. I have worked with, for, and along side of them.
Any other description of the party in my mind is an out-dated stereotype. I feel bad if you feel like you or your concerns are not being validated by a member of the party. As a whole, it’s an entirely different animal now and is constantly changing as this entire thread proves.
Can anyone explain why Bonoff has not updated her website, and has not said anything to supporters? Is she preparing to quit? Have they thrown in the towel? I wonder if she may be looking for a graceful exit before getting further embarrassed next week.
It sure looks like it given there has been complete silence from her campaign. Looks like they’ve thrown in the towel.
I don’t see how the Minnesota house or senate (both Bonoff and Paulsen) uniquely prepares one to deal with the federal issues more than Ashwin’s experience. What work did either do in the Minnesota legislature to prepare them for dealing with Israel or Korea? Ashwin worked with the UN, EU, and foreign governments on nation building in Iraq.
What is Paulsen going to say, don’t vote for that guy, he’s got no federal legislative experience!?! If the DFL candidate were challenging an incumbent, I might feel differently. He’s not. And, Bonoff doesn’t bring to the table decades of legislative experience either.
Given the lack of federal legislative experience around the table, you look to their ideas and other experience. We can agree to disagree, but, Ashwin’s experience IMHO prepares him well for the issues beyond Iraq (veterans issues, civil liberties, foreign policy, economic, and education / health care.)
I don’t think Ashwin has ever spun himself as the get out of Iraq guy. Indeed, he holds the most conservative position on that issue among the three DFL candidates.
Voter,
Good point. None of these candidates have any track record on federal issues. None of them have been in a position to do anything on any federal issues. That being said, we must examine the experience related to federal issues and their stated positions. I would encourage you to read Ash Madia’s responses on issues relating to veterans and constituency services at http://www.mndflvets.org/endorsements.html. You can read what the Veterans Caucus said about Ash and read his own personal answers to the questions asked by clicking the link. The pdf file is there for all to see. He is truly ready to lead on these issues and serve his future constituents well.
There is a difference between “sound bytes” and understanding. Ash has that through his experience in the military and with his active duty service to our country. He understands what issues are and what needs to be done to help our troops. This will be more and more important as we do transition out of Iraq as well as as we figure out how to end the forgotten war in Afghanistan, just to name two duty fronts. We ask so much of our young people in this country. Always have and always will. Defending us is one thing. After they defend us who do not serve and those no longer serving, we should return the honor of respecting what they have learned by allowing them to continue to lead.
I’d also love to buy a front row ticket to the first debate between Madia and Paulsen where Paulsen tries to tell Ash he doesn’t know anything about foreign policy. Would be worth the price of admission. Who in their right mind would tell a US Marine who has served in Okinawa and Baghdad that they know less than someone whose whole foreign policy experience is a taxpayer funded junket to China to see a factory? Well worth whatever the price…..
Hmmn… Well though I am undecided, and think either candidate would do just fine, I hope the lovely orange knit hats I see on the Madia people don’t come back to haunt us if he is the nominee. Some of you will get that joke, some will not.
Zack - I don’t think WIMHF got the message, and after multiple knock it off or pay the price reminders, its time do something more than say ‘stop… doing… that…’.
John S,
I have to agree with you. I just don’t sense the same feeling of obnoxious behavior in the blue shirts as I did in the orange hat brigade. The blue shirts are energetic and excited about their candidate without the shove it down your throat attitude of the orange hats.
“It sure looks like it given there has been complete silence from her campaign. Looks like they’ve thrown in the towel.”
She’s too close in actual delegates to pull out. Unless she’s getting signs that her super delegates are about to jump ship she has every reason to fight for this weekend. If she can pull out some victories, her super delegates might stay on board.
No doubt this weekend is a firewall for her. And, yes, somewhat strange she’s so quiet given that fact. But, it’s also still Monday morning. She has a smart staff, they are probably planning how to make their last stand. If she doesn’t perform strong this weekend, I suspect her super delegates start to disappear (ie, don’t show up) because they won’t want to be themselves the firewall that stands between Bonoff and the popular sentiment of the voters.
They are probably calculating the odds (and the odds of delegates sticking with them) of dragging this to a primary. Because they figure they got more doe.
WestMD -
Then its good to hear that his convention supporters are better than the ones on this blog
rm-
Here’s what you really don’t get. This is the DFL. Its a party that prides itself on how its members and candidates play by rules. Madia has done very well so far because while he has waged an insurgent campaign, he has done stayed within the lines. Bonoff has gotten to where she is because she worked vigourously within the lines. And it why it’ll come down to the CD3 convention. Running in the primary would doom Bonoff.
Of course, so would Madia or his supporters deciding they don’t need the party establishment.
It would totally hurt her with everyone that all 3 candidates have agreed to abide by the DFL endorsement. A primary would almost ensure that Paulsen sits back, waits to see how hard they tear each other apart and continue to fundraise for a quick race to the seat. It would almost ensure a GOP win in November. I think Terri is a stronger Dem than that. I hope so. I believe her when she says she cares first for the party. Also, what would her senate district feel if she were to casually toss out her promise to abide by the endorsement and damage her senate seat in the process? It wouldn’t serve her well when she returns to the senate to her day job, would it?
Jonh S
It is not what i don’t get. It is the campaign I’ve seen and and expect the worst. Here is a post by tonka-dfler who now identifies himself as a DFL office holder.
“It’s not over. Bonoff is down but it takes a 60% majority vote to get endorsed at the CD convention. Without 60%, it can go all the way to a primary. We are a month away. That’s a long time in local politics.”
Virtually Speaking tried to present one example of someone with a similar age and background winning a congressionakl seat and I really appreciate it as a bit of congressional history junkie:
“Sage: ” … Madia has a profile that rarely wins in any congressional race in the country (single, under 30, no electoral experience). but maybe this is the year…”
Well, a special election in 2004 was such a year in our neighboring state.
Stephanie Herseth [born 1970] was a young 30s lawyer with no previous elected experience, who won a special election in South Dakota.”
Of course you left out the number one and two reasons Ms herseth was in a position to win the nomination and the election:
1. Her paternal grandfather, Ralph Herseth, was Governor;
Her paternal grandmother, Lorna Herseth, was Secretary of State; and
Her father, Lars Herseth, served in the state legislature for two decades and ran for Governor in 1986.
and
2. And she ran a creditable campaign for Congress in 2002.
I’m a big fan of Herseth, actually, even though in general I dislike dynasties. But people started with a large reservoir of good will for her - maybe thought of her as sort of a daughter of the state.
None of this is true for Ashwin. Kind of a plus and a minus as he’s a “self-made man,” but he won’t get the background pass that Ms. Herseth and most of the sons and daughters of political dynasties get. The example that he is striving for would be Joe Biden in 1972, an under 30 lawyer who won a US Senate seat. Although he did serve on the County Council before running for Senate, it’s a simlar situation.
I’m open to more examples.
Mr Madia is the sort of candidate we turned to a lot in 2004 and 2006 - a “fightin’ dem,” a person with no electoral experience but some military backfground, who we hoped would put a deep red seat in play. The problem here is this is a purple seat and we should be favored with the right candiddate. We won’t be favored with either Ms Bonoff or Mr Madia bceause apparently Ms Bonoff has not been compelling on the stump and Mr Madia doesn’t have the resume.
I hope we win and I think we can, but i sure wish we could run a combination of the 3 candidates - with the mortgage paying, election winning mom, and the effective speaker, and the thoughtful city experience all wrapped into one. What do you say, everybody? Let’s head to the lab:)
st paul sage,
I’m not so sure that the soccer mom persona will win in the complete 3rd. It might be a great demographic in SD43 - her district - but I’m not so sure that it fits the rest any more. The 3rd is changing. The electorate is sick of the fear tactics of the GOP and I do believe this year will be another one for the Rovian textbooks. They’ll try. With Terri they could pull it off. With Jim Hovland, he’d be a very credible candidate but he’s just run an awful endorsement campaign, frnakly. I wish he had run a stronger campaign but it is what it has been…..I’m hoping he pulls off a strong win in his own district. That would be good for him. I do look to Ash to pull this endorsement battle out and then turn his sights on the GE. He’ll be strong in the GE against Paulsen. Paulsen is not the candidate the GOP was looking for but he is the one they are left with. There’s not any enthusiasm for him from the GOP, even. He’s almost a non-entity over there. With Ash’s military experience and understanding of federal issues, this purple seat will become blue.
WMD, let me add that often, elections come down to credibility.
Paulsen has a REAL credibility problem already - he’s trying to claim is a “moderate in the Frenzel/Ramstad tradition”, AND he’s trying to claim he has years of history working in a bi-partisan manner, in the legeslature.
Paulsen is the ideal candidate, for us - but it’s going to take ALL of us to get ‘er done.
NBTT
He’s a legend in his own mind….too many hold it against him that he lost the GOP the house plus he’s taken too many party line votes when he could actually helped the state by voting his conscience. That he thinks he can sell himself as a moderate is amazing. The reality couldn’t be further from the truth.
http://www.patrickmurphy.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=90
Single, no electoral experience, Iraq Vet.
On the other side…
Joe Scarborough….elected at 29 with no elected experience…only a law degree.
http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Joe_Scarborough
Just a tad older but with less chops in politics….
Heath Schuler. His background was a pro football player and real estate agent. He was elected at 35.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Shuler
Another intriguing strategic move that really hasn’t been discussed yet is why the Bonoff campaign seemed to be behind closing the floor to candidates in SD43. I’m clearly making an assumption that Bonoff was involved based on the fact that all three supporters of the ban appeared to be hardcore Bonoff supporters and all three of the people speaking out against the ban were Madia supporters.
Was this a Bonoff campaign move? Did someone in the campaign think that Hovland and Madia would make too many inroads if they were allowed to speak one-on-one with delegates?
If it did come from the Bonoff campaign, it was a strategic blunder as it clearly backfired with the supporters of the band being boo’d off the stage (especially after the ridiculous call for a hand count) and Bonoff looking like she wanted to keep the candidates away from the delegates. That doesn’t exude confidence — especially in your own backyard.
In any case, it was an interesting parliamentarian move that I thought would have generated more buzz.
Sage: Of course you left out the number one and two reasons Ms herseth was in a position to win the nomination and the election:
1. Her paternal grandfather, Ralph Herseth, was Governor;
Her paternal grandmother, Lorna Herseth, was Secretary of State; and
Her father, Lars Herseth, served in the state legislature for two decades and ran for Governor in 1986.
and
2. And she ran a creditable campaign for Congress in 2002.
I’m a big fan of Herseth, actually, even though in general I dislike dynasties. But people started with a large reservoir of good will for her - maybe thought of her as sort of a daughter of the state [SD].
Yup, I forgot to mention that Herseth was genetically experienced in holding elective office since her grandparents and father were elected officials.
Interesting discussion on public radio today. Talking about characteristics like experience vs. judgement in 2008 presidential campaign. Examples of ‘qualified’ candidates elected to presidency were Herbert Hoover and James Buchanan. Lots of government experience. Bad presidents, historically speaking. Hoover led the country into depression, Buchanan into Civil War.
JFK was described as handling the Bay of Pigs fiasco badly because he, early in his presidency, relied too heavily on his top military officers and advisors. With the Cuban Missile Crisis, he relied more on his judgement.
So character might be the foundation upon which to develop judgement.
Maybe we should be looking more at the character of the candidates than their resumes or experience.
‘Content of their character… ‘ - remember that famous phrase from the late Reverend Martin Luther King Junior?
Ash is going tow in this on his own. Look at how the Dems picked up the Hastert seat. The momentum is so much for Dems that Paulsen is toast. I predict Ash wins by at least double digits. It doesn’t really matter if Bonoff or the insiders support him. Who cares. He’s going to win this — the tide is too strong, and the people are demanding change. Out with the old; in with the new. It’s like the Bob Dylan song, “The Times they are a changin’” Frankly, Ash will be better served without the insiders and Bonoff supporters. He should stick with the grassroots campaign.
And I notice not a word from Bonoff folks about next weekend. A few days ago they were saying Bonoff is looking strong next week or feeling “very good” about it. Now, there is no one on the blogs defending her. Everyone sees, I guess, what we Madia supporters saw weeks ago — this race is over. Bonoff has lost.
I just got my fundraising letter from Emily’s List. Still NOT ONE WORD ABOUT SUPPORTING TERRI BONOFF. So much for that endorsement. I know some of the Bonoff supporters think that the help will come with a party endorsement, but ask Amy Klobuchar about that. She got help a lot quicker, and so did other viable candidates around the country.
They want me to send money to Shaheen and Kosmas, strong women running for seats around the country. I have yet to see a single letter asking me to support Bonoff. I get Emily’s List snail mail and email all of the time, and they have NEVER asked me to support Terri. She got all she was going to get — permission to put the endorsement on her website.
Time to move on. Even Emily’s List recognizes that sometimes the best person to carry forward with women’s issues might just be a MAN.
i like the patrick murphy example - that seems spot-on and gives me hope.
and virtually speaking, i’m talking about winning the election not holding the seat or being the president. her beloved family name had a lot to do with herseth winning the seat, don’t you agree?
and i’d like to have some of what “let’s get real” is smoking. you’re higher than a kite. are you suggesting that madia is so amazing that he can win without moderate women or democrats. are there really so many young greens in the 3rd now that you don’t need all the democrats?
oh yeah, just ask senator risser.
Let’s Get real - your taunts are such a poor reflection on your candidate — alienating fellow dflers. Bonoff is not done yet and there are a slew of people who will continue working for her until it’s over. And it’s not over yet. Let’s be productive here.
SPS,
Enthuasiasm is fun, isn’t it? Don’t you just love “let’s get real”? I love the excitement. Reality is it’s not a cakewalk. It will be a hard race and I think Madia has it to go the distance and take the seat.
Voter,
You are basically acknowledging “until it’s over.” In other words, people will work for Terri until she loses. There is not one Bonoff supporter who has posted a credible path to victory for her. There are numerous Ashwin supporters who have posted about how he will have a significant lead in delegates.
My sense is Bonoff has thrown in the towel. Other that Wellstone Forever in My Heart, she has no one defending her on the blogs. She has no one even attempting to spin the prospect of a victory. Everyone concedes she will lose more delegates next weekend.
And the reality is Ash doesn’t need the DFLers in Bonoff’s camp. He won without them. He’ll beat Paulsen without them. And they’ll have no choice but to jump on board.
My bet Wellstone Forever in My Heart will be singing Madia’s praises once he’s a Congressman and ready to run for Senator.
Now that Ciresi has dropped out of the race, expect Bonoff to follow. The Franken supporters are all Madia supporters. My bet is that Bonoff drops Monday of next week, after another embarassment at the conventions. She’ll lose by another 10 delegates at least, and by then the writing will be on the wall.
You know, lets get real, not every congressperson wants to run for senator. It’s a different collegiality in that body and a different dynamic in the type of committees etc. Many stay in the house their whole careers. I can imagine Ash being happy making differences in the lives of people in his district in the house for years. I expect Amy K and Al F to stay in the senate for years, too.
Bottom line, too, is that DFL’ers need everyone. No one is expendable. Period.
In 2003 Bill Clinton spoke at the Harkin Steak Fry in Indianola, Iowa. The crux of his speech was that Democrats need to learn to do one thing that Republicans do well…..find a candidate, fall in love, campaign hard, and then when the nominee is chosen, fall in line. That needs to happen up and down the ticket. The goal is to elect Democrats to effect change.
“Until it’s over” in no way implies until she loses. It means until she is in congress.
It’s crazy to think Madia doesn’t or won’t go after Bonoff supporters and/or that he doesn’t want/need them to win the GE, or, that a large chunk of Bonoff supporters won’t come to Madia’s side if (when?) he wins the endorsement.
Many people like both candidates. Many people are torn between the two. Many people think they would both be great but just was drawn to one over the other by one issue or another. Those people will all flock to whoever ends up being the endorsed candidate.
This is clearly a passionate debate, but, the type of bickering going on on this board is not reflective of the real-world events I’ve been at. The candidates have not turned negative. The supporters say hello to one another, talk to one another, and largely understand why others support the candidates they do. Heck, I sat next to a decked out Bonoff supporter all day Saturday and we got along great together.
Even Wellstone Forever hasn’t gone so far as to say she’ll vote for Paulsen over Madia.
True, Plymouth Dem. I was at the 43rd convention and spoke with many Bonoff supporters who are friends while wearing my Madia button. No one burst into flames. No one clutched their hearts over blasphemy. Everyone needs to get in line when this is over and elect a Dem to the seat. It will take every voter (you, too, voter).
And I spoke to lots of Bonoff supporters who said the Ash was impressive and if he got the endorsement they would have no problem supporting him.
We will all have to get in line, stay home and pout, or vote for the other team (horrors!).
All I am saying is that the trend is so favorable for Dems Ashwin will win the general easily. The concerns about electability are just Bonoff supporters fearful of a non-establishment candidate. Ash will not need Bonoff suppporters. They will jump on board when they see that he inevitably will be the next Congressman. They won’t want to piss him off.
Even Welstone Forever, will support him at the end of the day. He’ll just have to eat a lot of crow.
St Paul Sage,
Why would Greens - especially young ones support Madia? Well probably because they don’t know his platform…but then Greens tend to consider positions carefully. This group along with many liberal DFLers support peace and single-payer universal health care. On Iraq Madia is “McCain Messaging” - we must maintain a strong troop level for as long as we need to.
On Single-Payer he isn’t there.
It will be interesting to see how Madia does in SD41. The race Risser ran - Senate Distric 41 was the one in which the DFLer Andrew Borene, an Iraq vet, turned lawyer, turned politician crashed. His name stayed on the ballot - which is probably why Risser didn’t get more than 15% (plus she had no manager and a budget of $10,000.00) But Borene was aggressive like Madia. Got lots of signage in play early on …like Madia….here’s hoping SD41er think a tad and know Madia’s Iraq stance.
If it’s Madia vs Paulsen I’m thinking the Independence Party should scare up a candidate…the Greens probably won’t…maybe a “Vote NOTA” movement could get underway…or maybe Paulsen will get a second or third look….
Maybe you were making a play on the word “green” and thinking “young inexperienced voter who fails to look at a candidates positions thoroughly and is swayed by tons of in-your-face messaging”
And if Bonoff doesn’t drop out like Ciresi by Monday, she will be further embarassing herself and putting her state senate seat in jeopardy. She should do us all a favor and withdraw before the convention.
“Now that Ciresi has dropped out of the race, expect Bonoff to follow. The Franken supporters are all Madia supporters. My bet is that Bonoff drops Monday of next week, after another embarassment at the conventions. She’ll lose by another 10 delegates at least, and by then the writing will be on the wall.”
It will actually be interesting how this plays out for Bonoff. There is clearly a lot of flow between Madia and Franken caucuses. At least at SD43 they were feeding off each other maximizing delegates for both. If Franken is deemed the winner, perhaps Franken’s turnout dims a bit this weekend. Who knows, Jack is still in I guess which may bring them out. But, any drop in Franken supporters probably hurts Madia.
It would be interesting to hear from anyone in Bonoff’s camp such as Zack or voter or Wellstone Foreover whether they are still feeling “very good” about next weekend.
My sources tell me that Madia is expecting another easy win. Though he won’t get to 60% he’ll be well over 50% next weekend.
Any Bonoff supporter have the audacity to contradict that. You can’t. The fact is Madia has this sewn up.
Green….as in green economy. Ash speaks about the green economy and building a green based industry economy at every chance he gets. His position on Iraq is realistic, unlike those who think that you can just pull a cord and rip everyone from the country. Didn’t work too well for us in Vietnam. Won’t work now. It shouldn’t anyway. We will be abandoning many people there who deserve our assistance. I do believe in a little realism in voting, personally. He’s anything but McCain light. And, precisely how much time have you put into the military and in Baghdad from which vantage point you speak so authoritatively on how to get out of Iraq? Neither Barack nor Hillary believe we can just pull out precipitously. Whose presidential plan are you backing? Are you a Naderite or Ron Paul person? It seems to me that is what JNP is advocating. None of the Dems are. Reality, please. It’s not always a comfortable place to be.
lets get real….no win is an easy win. Ash is working his tail for this as is his campaign. He’s the hardest working candidate I think I’ve seen for awhile.
That won’t get my vote…
“Look at how the Dems picked up the Hastert seat. The momentum is so much for Dems that Paulsen is toast.”
Big difference.
1. The Democrat running in Illinois was a multi-millionaire who was self-funded.
2. He is a well-known businessman who has built a major employer in the district.
3. The Republicans had a nasty 3-way primary that disenchanted many of their base voters (something that may be happening on the DFL side in the 3rd)
I’m not saying that Dems don’t still have the Big ‘Mo. They do. I’m just saying the Illinois situation had alot of differences to what we’re observing here.
WMD
“His position on Iraq is realistic, unlike those who think that you can just pull a cord and rip everyone from the country. Didn’t work too well for us in Vietnam.”
So uh…should we still be in Vietnam? It is never going to be a good time to leave Iraq. We weren’t greeted with flowers and candy when we arrived - that isn’t going to happen when we leave.
I agree Madia is not McCain-Lite. He is more McCain straight-up. Both are saying we need to stay until it is safe to leave…
“There is clearly a lot of flow between Madia and Franken caucuses. At least at SD43 they were feeding off each other maximizing delegates for both.”
Not necessarily so. There were at least two specific Franken/Bonoff sub-caucuses for a total of 6 delegates. (don’t quote me on this but that is what I remember). And, Bonoff beat Madia in SD43 by 2 delegates. It would have been 3, but by a random chance, one of the Madia sub-caucuses had a higher remainder than any other sub-caucus by 2 or 3 delegates. Those extra 2-3 provided an entire delegate to Madia. Without that, it would have been 10-7.
It was not a strategic win because it just worked out that way. The sub-caucus was viable at 29 delegates and they had a total of 32 or so. Pretty neat when 3 people equal a viable delegate. Hey, don’t get me wrong, I would have taken it in a second!
No one said we should still be in Vietnam. I can only state categorically that we left Vietnam precipitously and it left many people behind to suffer horribly. The humanitarian aspect of ending a war has to be considered. That is what Barack and Hillary both agree with. It’s about measured withdrawal with consideration of those who are living behind.
So, if the GOP wantsn to stay for 100 years and the Dems aren’t going to get us out fast enough for you, just who are you supporting? I’m interested.
The sad thing for both the Iraqis and the US, is that there is no good end to this. We opened a box that had a lid on it. Now, there is a really bad combination of tribal nationalism and a good supply of weapons.
Should we leave in a month? Probably not. Is the damage already done to our national reputation in the Mid-East, Arab and Muslim world? Yes.
Whether we are there 2 more years or two more months, it is not going to be great for a while. There will be violence for the foreseeable future. The problem is that most occupations eventually fail. This is not a war, it is an occupation.
Look on the bright side. It has been less than 35 years since we left Vietnam and we are on diplomatic terms again. That means, nearly at the end of my life, I might have a chance to travel to the middle East and not be hated. Something to look forward to I guess.
Leaving Iraq responsibly is what matters. Hillary said it best when she talked about the time it takes to move military units from one place to another. Since we don’t have teleporting ability yet, I think anyone who thinks we can move thousands of troops in a short period of time does not understand the logistics of that feat.
The Madia position on this is in tune with both Obama and Clinton. He speaks truthfully and realistically and I appreciate that. McCain wants to remain for another 100 years. Haven’t heard a single democrat agree with that position!
Would I love it if our 150,000 troops could leave tomorrow? Of course!
Demure one — would you like to see our troops injured or possibly killed becuase we did not allow them a safe and measured withdrawal that allows for their security? Or would you rather see attempted helecopter rooftop rescues and pandemonium ensue?
The sentiment of “get out tomorrow” sounds great, but do you really think the military has the ability to move that many troops overnight?! You need to do more homework or perhaps spend some time serving your country.
I value the lives of our soldiers more than that.
Sage:
The Herseth name did not hurt Stephanie in her 2004 campaign for House in South Dakota.
But even a name is no trump card. Not even Kennedy.
Kathleen Kennedy Townsend of Maryland, as I recall, ran for office in 2006, and I think she even dropped the Townsend from her name, but she still lost her race, even running with the last name of her father Bobby, Uncle Jack and Uncle Teddy.
WMD - as far as who I will support - I don’t think I HAVE to limit my choices to specific names on the ballot. Anyone who doesn’t have a commitment to getting out militarily and in diplomatically - well ethically I can’t support that. We aren’t even fostering the Iraqi economy on a basic level - we purchase food from Turkey for our soldiers.
And as for the question “would you like to see our troops injured or possibly killed becuase we did not allow them a safe and measured withdrawal that allows for their security?” that’s rhetoric that skews the issue - “a safe and measured withdrawal” what the heck is that - do you have a time frame? A list of goals that must be met? The reality is Madia, like McCain doesn’t have any end to a strong military presence in the country. He sees a substantial US troop level there forever. He will draw down - but never out.
I don’t have to vote for that. I don’t have to vote for Paulsen. I can write in NOTA or “Single-payer universal health care”
Maybe Paulsen isn’t a “we must have military presence in Iraq forever kind of guy” Even if Madia could say I want us out in three or five years, I would look at him again - but he isn’t - he can’t.
DO
You want a withdrawal from Iraq based on a plan you draw up. Do u have a lot of experience in that field ?
Demure One,
I can guarantee you that you have not actually listened to Madia speak about Iraq. What you are suggesting is exactly what he proposes! Get diplomacy working, get out responsibly and safely. He also recognizes that as a freshman congressman he would have very little influence over anything. All of the prognostications and demands of congresspersons aside the reality is that freshman congresspersons have very little influence. It’s a true reality check and causes issues at home because they went in demanding I’ll do this, I’ll do that and when they get they are told you’ll do this, you’ll do that and you’ll earn your stripes and committees. Madia understands that because he has served in our military and understands full well the chain of command. The bottom line: the decisions will be made at the presidential level and both of the Dem candidates have plans that make sense.
DO,
You feel so strongly about the Iraq war that you are going to write in single payer health care?
Madia proposes that we pull out troops within 18-24 months leaving approximately 10k behind for diplomatic protection and emergency strike capabilities. Do you really think that equates to a substantial U.S. troop level forever?
We have more than 10k troops in countries such as the U.K., Germany, Japan, South Korea, and Italy and our diplomatic missions are not even at risk there. That doesn’t count the thousands of troops in each of Belgium, Turkey, Portugal, Bahrain, Kuwait just to name a few. Or the 1,000s of blue helmet U.S. troops in countries ranging from Yugoslavia to Congo to Sudan.
We can’t just drop an embassy in Iraq and expect all will be dandy.
DO, why do you fault Madia for telling the truth? I fault the candidates that tell you what you want to hear, because that is irresponsible.
Sounds like you aren’t going to vote for either Clinton or Obama either, because they BOTH say a measured withdrawal is the way to get out of Iraq.
Why don’t you go to Davanni’s tonight at 5124 Gus Young Ln in Edina from 7-9pm and ask Ashwin Madia all of your questions? He’s having a meet and greet there, and I know he would talk to you about your concerns for Iraq.
Yes, we can not just drop an embassy in Iraq. Nor, can we build the biggest embassy in the world and protect it with an army and call it diplomacy. Yes, we have lots of troops around the world. Don’t forget Cuba, for some reason we have a military base on the island of our sworn local enemy. Our presence is not all welcomed either in the places we are “hosted”, I am sure that many of the Japanese in Okinawa would love to see us leave tomorrow.
I am well aware of why our bases are around the world and what deterrent purpose they serve. The point is, many of us are looking for a less militaristic society. A smaller military with less money going to the military budget, with more money going to education, social programs, and investments in our crumbling infrastructure.
We need a representative that is going to be stronger on that message.
Tonka,
I think that’s why Ashwin, despite his experience in Iraq, isn’t the get out of Iraq candidate. Although his experience in Iraq is front and center, he’s talking about the issues you are talking about. It is the other two candidates that bang their drums when it comes to getting out of Iraq now and make that the cornerstone of their campaigns.
Ashwin has taken a more measured approach. I don’t think we can say the position “pull out of Iraq responsibly” is being militaristic, and, he’s the only candidate seriously talking about how we once again become welcomed by the world: improve civil liberties, seek multilateralistic solutions to international problems, stop torture, stop fear mongering, and lead the world on internationally important issues such as transforming to a green, sustainable economy. Listen to the stump speech he’s been giving now for months. The theme is simple: we need to lead based on who we are — good people — not by our military might.
Coming from teacher of families, I also feel he’s also taking the most measured approach to education. It’s easy to yell and scream about how we need to completely scrap no child left behind. Ashwin, like his Iraq policy, is trying speak realistically. The reality is we need some level of achievement measurement. Without it, inner city kids get ignored. Without knowing where we are failing, we can’t know where to improve. But, at the same time, measuring achievement requires investing where those tests show failure. That’s where no child left behind has failed. The policy doesn’t need to be scrapped entirely, even if its politically popular to think so.
The reason, I think, Ashwin is resonating with the voters is because he’s not just campaign speak. It’s easy to say I’m going to do everything for everyone (actually, one of the most hilarious Simpson’s episodes teaches this story — when Homer runs for sanitation director). What people want to hear, however, is a concrete, WORKABLE solution to the problems that don’t sound like talking points. Whether its war, education, or the economy, to me at least Ashwin is a leg up on the other candidates.
PlymouthDem,
That is about the most sensible thing that anyone responding on this forum has said in the last two days. That is the type of response I was looking for. That kind of explanation is what this campaign is about. I still disagree with your choice but I champion your right to have it.
There’s some great tips there, just blogged about it too!