… my hopes and dreams for Minnesota and this country are better represented by Al Franken. I believe he has the best vision and has the courage to fight for that vision. He is the strongest candidate on health care, the environment, and by far on foreign policy. As a bonus, he is also the candidate that has raised over ten million dollars while the other campaign can just afford the convention this weekend. Yes, he has that “celebrity status,” but it’s the kind of recognition where he can walk into a pub and the entire place starts cheering him on. Al has strong, statewide support, fantastic campaign staff and is the candidate with the positions and resources to defeat Norm Coleman in November.
Go give him a read.
But much better to read Spot: http://thecuckingstool.blogspot.com/2008/05/spot-unburdened-ii.html
I think there are other DFL candidate who have basically the same positions as Franken on the issues, and who are far better positioned to advocate them. They won’t have to spened the bulk of their time explaining the differences between comedians, satirists, and politicians. All other things being pretty much equal, when all the isues are so much in our favor, why don’t we choose a candidate who will let us talk about them? Who won’t get mired in a lot of garbage?
Hiram-
Did you even read the post? The positions are not the same.
My question for the DFL delegates this weekend is simply this.
This fall, when you are doorknocking for your candidate, do you want to talk about the issues that make a difference in people’s lives, or do you want to talk about Al Franken’s Playboy interview?
It really isn’t more complicated than that.
Hiram-
It’s hard to attack Franken on the issues but it’ll be dead easy to attack JNP on his positions and writing. Adam Platt responds to your comment quite well, I think.
Sean, I realize this is actually Aaron Landry’s piece, but…
Do you really think a 50-state plan is better health policy than single-payer? Even Franken says single payer would be better. What Franken doesn’t say, however, is that he would work hard to get it.
Do you really think that new nuclear power plants and new coal plants somehow make better environmental policy? Franken thinks so, apparently, since he proposes that we use those horrible technologies as essential elements in solving energy problems.
Do you really think that Franken would be better on foreign policy than the guy who spoke out so eloquently against the invasion of Iraq? Truly, foreign policy is the absolutely LAST thing I would mention if I were trying to sell Franken. He was wrong on Iraq. In my opinion, he is STILL wrong on Iraq. He will be wrong on Iran and on any other hard issues that might come his way. Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer has a dozen books under his belt, mostly on foreign policy. Jack has a perfectly calibrated policy and moral compass. Franken, on the other hand, shows no foreign policy leadership at all; it seems much more important to him to say the words that he thinks will win elections.
To be fair, Franken is good on many issues. I like Franken on gay/lesbian marriage. I like Franken on creating green manufacturing jobs. And of course I couldn’t agree more with Franken on how bad the Bush administration and the enablers like Norm Coleman have been.
But we truly need some solutions here. Policy solutions. And Franken, while not actually a policy disaster, is certainly not the best candidate I can think of to lead us out of the swamp we are in. That remarkably good candidate would actually be Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer.
Hiram-
Anybody who is concerned about an eight year old article in playboy is a goddamned idiot.
“Anybody who is concerned about an eight year old article in playboy is a goddamned idiot.”
Well, I never claimed to be the brightest bulb on the tree, but I am smart enough to find may wall to the polling station, and that’s all the intelligence I need for my opinion to matter.
I will vote for Al in the general election if it comes to that as it almost certainly will. It’s just that right now, this moment, is a special time. I think beneath the platitudes, the party loyalties, the desire for unity, I think a lot of us are thinking pretty much the same thing. Our lives would be a lot easier this fall, we could bring ourselves now to nominate one of a number candidates who have all of Franken’s assets and none of his liabilities.
But we can’t do that. We are lemmings, fascinated, compelled by the edge of the cliff, not because there isn’t another alternative, but because we don’t allow ourselves to look for one.
So lojasmo is saying that 4 out of 6 of the DFL congresional delegation, an untold number of state DFL officials and the regional director of Planed Parenthood are idiots.
I think lojasmo does a good job of representing Franken supporters. “Agree with me or you’re stupid.”
Simmer down people! Aaron made excellent points. I thank him for them and encourage everyone to read his ENTIRE post and watch the embedded video of Jack. As usual, some of the people commenting here seem determined to not unify around the real problem which is the fact that Norm Coleman has been a horrible senator who deserves to be defeated in the fall.
Charley, I realize you were commenting to Sean, but…
Nobody thinks a 50-state plan is better than single-payer. Franken is fighting for it but he’s also realistic and plans on making headway on it.
The JNP-campaign line of Franken thinking he loves coal and nuclear is getting pretty old. It’s been answered enough times. I guess Al Gore must love coal and nuclear too.
To say that Franken is basing his Iraq policy on what is going to get him elected is silly. Franken based his policy on working with experts on the best way to get out of Iraq and get our troops home as fast as possible without making the situation much worse. There’s a lot of people that have written a lot of books about middle eastern policy that you and I both disagree with, Charley. Being an author or a professor doesn’t automatically make you the expert with the best solution. I think a lot of people disagree with JNP’s plan on multiple levels, including myself, people I consider experts on the subject and every Iraq-war veteran that I’ve talked with.
Just as you stated about Franken, there’s a lot of things I agree with Jack on as well.
It’s going to be a fun weekend, especially because you and I get to sit at the same table. I’m really excited. See you down there. -Aaron
Franken gets my endorsement for DFL candidate. He best represents everything I ever believed about leftists in general and Democrats in particular.
Something which we should keep in mind. We do not get to set the terms by which people vote. As long as we are in the business of trying to get more votes than the other guy, we must respond to the concerns, and I would suggest respond respectfully, to the concerns of others even if we do not share them.
Aaron, I hope you are not actually suggesting that Al Gore loves coal or nuclear. Your link is to Gore’s endorsement of Franken, which is in the same article as former Klobuchar campaign manager Ben Goldfarb’s endorsement of Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer.
To me, Gore’s endorsement is completely misguided, but I can certainly understand why he made it. He has probably never heard Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer’s name. Whereas I will bet you that Ben Goldfarb could tell you the tiny details of Franken’s positions, as well as cite many interesting numbers relating to Franken’s problems with electability.
My point is this: Al Gore is an icon about global warming and we should all be proud of him for warning the world. But Al Gore doesn’t know anything about Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer or Minnesota politics specifically. So please don’t tell me that Al Gore believes we can burn coal without greenhouse gases or make electricity using nuclear without creating radioactive waste that will outlast our species.
@ KH
“So lojasmo is saying that 4 out of 6 of the DFL congresional delegation, an untold number of state DFL officials and the regional director of Planed Parenthood are idiots.”
If they are at all convinced that this reflects ONE IOTA upon Al’s values or ability to legislate…yes.
This is an eight year old WORK OF FICTION.
I can’t wait until Monday, and the gloves come off.
I’m predicting “Norm Abramoff”, “Jack Coleman”, and “ol’ Smokescreen” will become regularly discussed topics.
Oh - and I also predict Scrotee, er, ‘scuse me, “NotSoSwiftly” will become infamous for posting a link to full frontal male nudity on MDE.
Aaron, I think I need to add a bit about Franken and foreign policy, and I am afraid I need to be a bit confessional about why Franken disturbs me so much on the question of Iraq.
Don’t get me wrong. I like Franken as a person. I think he is an honest and honorable man. I think he would be a better senator than Coleman. I think his wife Franni is charming. I think he has been getting a rotten deal from the mainstream media and the right-wing smear machine. But I really don’t trust his judgment on war and peace issues at all. There is a story.
As you may know, I was a national delegate to Boston 4 years ago. Kerry had the numbers to get endorsed, so the big push was in party unity and in beginning to frame the contest against Bush. My concern was that I saw early signs that Kerry was being advised to run as a war hero, as someone even more bloodthirsty than Bush. I felt (and still feel) that this was a tragic mistake, that Bush already owned the war brand and that Kerry should run as the practical internationalist.
Against this backdrop, Franken came to speak one morning to the Minnesota delegation. Essentially, he set up his Kerry story by saying that Kerry was known as truthful, but that Kerry had lied once when Kerry said that he had never killed anyone in Vietnam. Franken then told the story of how Kerry’s swiftboat had been fired on, how Kerry had run it up on shore, jumped off as it was moving and shot a Vietnamese guy in the back as he fled.
I assume the story was designed to show that Kerry had bigger balls than chickenhawk Bush, much like the “hunt them down and kill them” mantra we heard so often during the debates.
Aaron, the guy Kerry killed was probably a husband, very likely a father, and almost certainly the Vietnamese guy thought he was fighting to protect his country from a foreign invader. Well over 4 million Vietnamese died in that war, yet Franken told that story to show how big Kerry’s cojones were, as far as I can tell. And, of course, we have our own somber wall to remember the Americans who died in that senseless war. And, of course, we know that many more returned to kill themselves than were actually killed in battle. In my opinion, that story was told exactly for political reasons.
Aaron, Franken has said that he initially supported the Iraq war because he believed the lies and the lying liars who were telling them. So I mistrust Franken’s judgment on this one. Quite a few of us, including Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer, knew better. Franken didn’t, and I think that lack of judgment portends poorly for future decisions he might be called on to make as senator.
And when I read his Iraq positions carefully, I see that he wants to BEGIN withdrawing troops from Iraq as a way of pushing the Iraq government into political solutions. But I don’t see him saying anywhere that he ever wants to FINISH withdrawing from Iraq or that he rules out permanent U.S. military bases there.
So, no, I really mistrust Franken on Iraq, on Iran and on any other war that some idiots in the beltway seem to think is necessary. I don’t think Franken sees the big picture, like Jack does. I don’t think he fully understands the consequences of his own policies. I don’t find him particularly well informed or insightful. To me, Franken just doesn’t “get it.” Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer does.
Charley that is just so wrong on so many levels. As my brother explained to me, he didn’t want to kill the Vietcong, he wanted to kill the guys who were trying to kill him. Now that list included Richard Nixon but the immediate issue was the guys in the black pajamas on the other side of the wire. To disparage Kerry over his actions in a warzone is beyond reality. To try and use it as a club against Franken is even more wrong. If you think JNP would not have reacted as my brother and Kerry did, you do not know human nature on a visceral level. When people are attacking you, you defend yourself.
What kind of ivory tower do you live in? The fact is that if you and JNP would have expected my brother, a father and son, to die so the other guy can live his life as a father, son or whatever… is foolish. While I consider my self a progressive and marched in Washington against the Vietnam War, I knew intrinsically you can blame the leaders but not the soldiers. We hated the war but loved the soldier… mostly because with the Draft it was a complete mishmash of who went if you weren’t rich.
This senate race has seen complete madness… it makes the national race look sane.
lojasmo,
I don’t know what Franken is like with his family and friends. I don’t have any reason to believe that he treats the women in his personal life the way he talks about others woman in public. The issue is that Franken regularly uses misogynistic language to communicate. Something that many people, Democrats included, simply don’t feel is an acceptable trait for a senator. Especially while there is still some hope of presenting another DFL candidate during the general election.
Franken has not shown any deference to people with a better understanding of such subjects then himself, life-long stalwarts in the DFL or simply good taste. Instead he clams up and changes the subject. His lack of respect for the honest opinion of others is not what we need. My guess is that he is more worried about upsetting his friends in the entertainment industry, where he gets all of his money, than the people he is trying to represent in the senate.
Remember a racist joke may still be promoting racism even if it is a joke. A sexist joke may still be promoting sexism even if it is a joke. It also doesn’t matter if he was doing so intentionally or not. He was making money acting in a way that was, in the opinions of well respected and qualified people, degrading to women and is unapologetic for it. In fact he doesn’t even respect those people enough to respond to their concerns.
Jismo said: “If they are at all convinced that this reflects ONE IOTA upon Al’s values or ability to legislate…yes.”
Do children/beastiality jokes crack you up? Why, or why not?
Do you think rape jokes are funny? Why, or why not?
I don’t think that I’m going too far out on a limb here to suggest that the overwhelming majority of people in this country (present company perhaps, excluded) don’t think either of those subjects are appropriate fodder for jokes.
In addition, I do think that that the overwhelming majority of people in this country (present company perhaps, excluded) *would* question the values, morality, scruples, call it what you will, of anyone who does think this stuff is funny. If this is the kind of shit that floats in the vacuum between Al Franken’s ears, we don’t want him representing us…because he *doesn’t* represent us.
Now, as I’ve said, I think that Al Franken is the perfect poster child for today’s Democrat party. He’s got it all; the complete package.
So you go ahead and pull his bandwagon, Jismo. I’m going to thoroughly enjoy watching the humiliating spectacle of his public smack down.
Because humanity really hasn’t fallen as far as most leftists wish to us to believe.
Swiftee,I agree 100%,
Everyone knows that Republicans like us are much more humane than any liberal who hates America and wants to surrender to terrorists.
Just put your comments in your “moonbats taken down” section of your blog, so everyone can share this moment with you, please.
I just can’t understand why these moonbats don’t get that you and the Republicans you represent are correct 100% of the time. If they realized that then websites like Publius wouldn’t even exist.
That’s what’s most disturbing isn’t it, the fact that Liberals are allowed to exist. I’m sure Republicans all agree on that. That’s our message, and has been for years.
Dream, my friend Swiftee, of a day when you can live your life in a world where everybody agrees with you 100%. That would be awesome!
Just keep a few of these Liberals in zoos so we can show our children them, and point at them and say SEE!!! That is a moonbat, son. THANK GOD we removed them from our society.
Great Job, humane Swiftee!
Scrotee said: “I don’t think that I’m going too far out on a limb here to suggest that the overwhelming majority of people in this country (present company perhaps, excluded) don’t think either of those subjects are appropriate fodder for jokes.”
This, from a guy who unhesitatingly placed a link to full frontal male nudity on MDE.
NotSoSwiftly is the epitome of a “Do as we say, not as we do” republiCon.
And it’s rightwingwhackjobs like Scrotee that have caused voters all across this great country to recognize that GOP now stands for GreedOverPrinciples.
So, amuseinc, are you trying to say that soldiers are put in danger by those who do NOT want them to engage in senseless invasions to protect the oil interests of a few Bush cronies? I’m not sure I follow your logic here. The issue we were discussing was Franken’s judgment in initially supporting the tragic war in Iraq, yet you somehow turn it around and try to claim that I am putting your brother’s life in danger or disparaging his service. Where in the world do you get that?
Our U.S. military is not run by a junta. It is run by a civilian government. Soldiers and Marines don’t make the decision to go to war, and they are not responsible for either the current tragedy of Iraq nor the past tragedy of Vietnam.
I did not disparage Kerry’s military service. I rejected using that military service to support our current evil war. I rejected the absolutely idiotic strategy of trying to run Kerry as a bloodthirsty warmonger, when so much of his career he has spent opposing wars. I totally rejected and continue to reject Franken using the anecdote of a senseless death to promote a presidential campaign. I reject Franken’s judgment is supporting a war when he should have known better, and that lapse of judgment causes me to wonder about Franken’s judgment in the future.
So the invasion was wrong, but the decision to invade was not made by military leaders.
As for hating the war but loving the warrior, I totally reject your criticism unless you have done more than I have to get returning vets the treatment and benefits they deserve. First, they should be removed from this immoral and unwinnable war. Then they should be supported in their efforts to return to us. That is how I would support the troops.
Still thinking about that guy eh, dolt #1? And got scrotum on your mind too.
You should get together more often with your pal, Al “Rape as satire” Franken…compare notes and “stuff”.
Back at ya, TFRWG. Keep up the good work.
Swiftee, I agree 100%,
Taking down moonbats is again your proven forte’, and yet these moonbats still just don’t get it. It’s almost as if they think we Republicans are not honest or something. Maybe they’re just Marxist Facsist Communist Anarchist Pinko America haters who want us to surrender to terrorists.
One thing’s for sure, everyone knows these moonbats have a pretty wide stance concerning Al Franken.
Great Job!
Your stance is nothing to sneeze at either TFRWG. Keep up the good work.
More great satire from Franken:
“In the 1995 New York magazine profile of “Saturday Night Live,” Franken is described among a group of show writers sounding out a possible parody of Andy Rooney centered on a sedative pill bottle found in the “60 Minutes” essayist’s desk. Franken and fellow writers Norm MacDonald and Jim Downey kick around fictional Rooney responses to the discovery of the bottle.
The article quotes Franken putting an edgy twist on the discussion, saying in a Rooney voice: “And ‘I give the pills to Lesley Stahl. Then when Lesley’s passed out, I take her to the closet and rape her.’ Or ‘That’s why you never see Lesley until February.’ Or, ‘When she passes out I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.”
MacDonald takes it a step further, suggesting that the Rooney rape comment be directed at other “60 Minutes” icons Mike Wallace and Ed Bradley. Franken chimes in, again in a Rooney voice: “What about ‘I drag Mike into my office and rape him. Right here! I guess that makes me bad.’””
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/19568234.html?location_refer=Homepage
Oh, and this is Mike Ciresi’s fault. And Betty McCollum’s.
No it is meaningless drivel… and people wonder why Politically Correct is considered foolish. When something is really damaging, truthfully harmful to people, no one will care because of this kind of overly sensitive “Crying Wolf.” Instead the whole concept becomes a late night comedians joke.
I suppose you also support grade schools expelling the kid for bringing the bright red squirt gun to school. Or think that kindergartner is sexually harrassing a girl when he pulls her pigtail instead of being a rotten little kid. Should we make sure that every picture in the Art Museaums is appropriate for 10 year olds and start burning books that deal with adult subjects. After all no decent person needs to be thinking these thoughts.
You want to go after Al Franken on the issues go right ahead, but this stupid childish bullshit accusations on him are below even Republican standards of mudslinging. To think that Planned Parenthood has sunk to this is just nuts.
And yes, if Mike Cerisi would have beat Al and Jack on the real issues, this wouldn’t be going on. But he couldn’t because he is an impotant party hack. Betty McCollum is just playing the subservient and traditionally female role to Cerisi. I find that very disappointing.
Amuseinc,
Why don’t you tackle a current event - how about the seniors expelled for bringing in a Confederate flag. Where do you stand on that? Was the administration right is suspending them? Or were they satirists?
Or was it more meaningless drivel as three morons tried to “rebel” and got smacked around by a school administration. Unlike most I really don’t feel obligated to get upset over everything that happens in the world, nor feel that my opinion is needed in every instance and every case. Demure One, I will bow to your superior ability to judge others in every case and be the arbiter of exactly what is or is not acceptable to society. My lack of godlike powers and my humanity forbids me from participating… but you go right ahead. How are those witch trials going?
Gosh Amuseinc you dodge questions in a very dramatic, defensive manner.
Or I’m being as honest as I can be… I don’t have an opinion and don’t care what happens to three History-deprived morons, the Stars & Bars at a Bloomington High School. Nothing for me to be concerned about as far as I can tell… but like I say, I bow to your greater powers of being judgmental. Not all news matters. Not all actions demand a reaction.
Sorry but after 56 years on this sad old world not everything demands my opinion or attention. Perhaps I can rest assured there are enough people like you out there to take up my slack?
I hope that we don’t start deconstructing every joke to find some hidden malevolence. Edgy jokes are funny when it is clear that the premise is flawed and that the maker is using the topic to highlight that flaw. Can you make jokes about bestiality and rape that are not oppressive? Of course, just as you can make jokes about affirmative action and gender equity that are sexist. It’s not the content that matters, it’s the message.
I am so afraid that we are going to perpetuate the stereotype of liberals as humorles, over sensitive prudes that we will drive away younger generations and those of us who are not paragons of decorum.
I know feminists have been dogged by the accusatory “Can’t you take a joke?” forever. Lately, I’m afraid that maybe we can’t.
“Can you make jokes about bestiality and rape that are not oppressive? Of course.” Oh my god.
Al is proud of his career as a satirist, and I am sure he is. Al has had a dazzling career. But that isn’t quite the point. The real issue is whether you are proud of Al’s career, whether that’s the basis on which we want campaign this fall.
At this point, we are making the decision as to whether we as a party want to talk about health care, Social Security, the economy, or whether we want to talk about Playboy issues, the ones we know about, and of course the ones yet to be discovered.
Jenilda,
I have been reading this blog for over a year. Yours is the first comment that literally turned my stomach - seriously when I read what you wrote about rape being an ok topic for a joke I wanted to barf.
Even Swiftee hasn’t accomplished that.
I do actually work with people in the 18-24 year range…if anything they are looking for people who have a sense of responsibility and stewardship. Think about it - the younger generation is facing a poor economy, high tuition, climate change….I don’t think they are going to want to add to that list of problems by taking on all the baggage Franken brings.
I love how swiftee and his rightwing shitheel bretheren and the most strident of JNP supporters are aligned. That’s friggin’ sweet.
See you guys tomorrow at the convention!
Here we go again. The DFL leadership swift boats the best candidate because it’s not his turn to run. Coleman will win if Al is not the candidate. JNP has lots of things in his books and writings that will be great swift boat material. We can bury the satire BS from the NEOCONS with Norm’s record alone. Put him and all of his supporters on the defense about his record. Remember the Grand Oil Party covered up Bush’s DWI and cocaine record with distractions.
Then have others talk about his Dad and his multiple arrests for solicting women for sex. How about Norm’s wife living in CA and not with Norm. Doesn’t Norm have a reputation of adultry and womanizing?
This election is all about how to lose the election if we don’t stay united and work from the same play book.
The way the some in the party have been handling the Al made a living with jokes “problem” has me questioning if we need these people in elected office. At the point that a Representative is willing to attack a potential Democratic candidate over words from an 8 or 13 year old magazine article… well maybe we are the liberal batshits that the Republicans think we are.
Lacking a good sense of priority and failing to understand the real world is something I usually associate with Republicans. After all the GOP is filled with religious nutjobs wailing about the losing the Death Penalty while they picket Planned Parenthood clinics. Now I see where the circle of their whackjobs seems to converge with our whackjobs and it is not pretty.
Cerisis Democrats willing to ignore real problems to be outraged over made up ones because JNP beat them. Progressives ready to get into bed with the Religious Right because it might get JNP the nomination. As they say politics makes for strange bedfellows, but some Planned Parenthood types going after Al for quoted bad taste comments 13 years ago in a comedy writers bull session while we have Norm Coleman giving a speech at the Minnesota Republican Convention where he declares “Life begins at conception…” My head is spinning at the sheer weirdness.
Norm Coleman’s father has since died, so good luck trying to tie that one to Coleman. And DFLers have been salivating about Coleman’s alleged womanizing for years, but nothing has ever come from it.
The “swiftboating” of John Kerry involved lying about his war record. No one is lying about Al Franken - he wrote the Playboy story and he made the rape jokes. He screwed up his taxes and he didn’t pay workers compensation. I am sure the lies will come this fall if Franken is the nominee, but at this point the truth is bad enough.
JNP will get swiftboated, but the swiftboating will arise out of his extremely liberal positions. Previously I had thought that would make him more vulnerable than Franken. I’m not sure now. I don’t think either of them would beat Coleman, but I know I would rather go down fighting with a candidate who loses because his views on peace and economic justice are too radical, than one who loses because he writes “satire” about drugging and raping women.
I continue to endorse Al Franken for the Democrat nomination for US Senate.
Al Franken, more than any other candidate, can bring the reality of what today’s Democrat party stands for.
JNP is no slouch mind you; he is certianly the leading light of the “America must fall” movement, but he somehow has completely missed the “scruples are a Right Wing myth” message that is so appealing to today’s Democrat voter.
So Democrat delegates, this weekend please join Al Gore and Swiftee and keep Al Franken’s over the top message…well over the top.
Thanks you.
“And Sen. Kathy Saltzman of Woodbury and Rep. Sandy Wollschlager of Cannon Falls both released a statement saying:
As Minnesotans, we find the articles written by Mr. Franken to be most disturbing. While some may describe these writings to be satire, comedy, or an expression of free speech, we find them offensive and highly inappropriate when linked to a candidate for the United States Senate.
The standard for any party should be doing the people’s work and the prism through which candidates should be vetted and policies examined. While many still believe that Mr. Franken is a viable candidate for endorsement, we find it very difficult to see past these actions.”
http://blogs.twincities.com/politics/2008/06/bad_day_for_al_franken.html
At what point will people start to see that there is a problem here?
Swiftee, I agree 100%,
The only Americans AL Franken’s message relates too are Socialist Marxist Facist Communist moonbats who hate American and want us to surrender to terrorists.
It doesn’t matter how many of “THEM” there are as long as we keep reminding there subhuman moonbats how 100% wrong they are on every issue.
Keep taking down moonbats so effecyively, Swiftee. You are truly 100% representing the Republican party.
Great Job!
“Clearly, what is not going to work for him is just continuing to say that he knows the difference between satire and being a senator,” said Rep. Alice Hausman, DFL-St. Paul, who had counted herself a strong Franken supporter. “He was so charming and wonderful when I saw him interacting with students. I thought, ‘He excites a new generation and that’s so important.’ But now this thing. I just don’t know. I think he has to say, ‘Boy, that was a stupid thing to do.’ Insensitivity and poor taste are not even strong enough terms.” http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/19588289.html?page=2&c=y
Dan the problem is that it is manufactured outrage. If there was not an internal fight going on in the DFL, this would have passed off as typical Republican mudslinging and that would have been that. Instead every-time it has become a so what issue, another Democrat with an ax to grind or an opposing candidate to support fans the flames. I wonder what kind of opposition research exists in Republican hands about a lawyer and his law office?
Be honest… 8 years and 13 years ago you never told an off-color joke? Everyone of these politicians for the last 13 years have not made a jest in bad taste? Get real and face the facts… this is the destructive politics that has the Republicans painted as Christian even though they support torture and George Bush’s atrocities in Iraq. It is what keeps normal, sane and hardworking Americans away from seeking political office because of the silly gotcha process that has arisen. This is manufactured outrage at its worst.
The real problem is if Al Franken loses to Norm Coleman, these DFLers will miss that they were a serious part of the problem. They have further made sure that only “professional politicians” will play in the future because you need to be bloodless, pristine and perfect before the attack dogs of Political Correctness.
I’m going to be serious and respectful here, amuseinc.
No one is pristine and perfect; no one; to expect perfection isn’t rational. However, it is reasonable to expect that the people we put forth as our country’s leaders are the best examples we can find.
Al’s problems are not due to one off color joke; reasonable people would and could forget a lapse. But what Al’s record shows is that “off color” thinking is a way of life for Al.
Al has no record of public service. The only record we can measure him by is his personal conduct and business decisions.
In that, he has proved himself incapable of managing his own simple business affairs. How are we to trust a guy that can’t seem to keep a million dollar enterprise on the straight and narrow with billions?
I do hope Al is the Democrat guy this fall; he’ll get thoroughly trashed and the image he leaves behind him will stain your party for years to come. But when he does, do a bit of navel gazing before you start pointing fingers at the GOP of JNP supporters.
Alice Hausman is (or was) a hard-core Franken supporter and she doesn’t think this is manufactured outrage. Kathy Saltzman and Sandy Wollschlager - suburban female DFL legislators - don’t think this is a manufactured outrage. Amy Klobuchar doesn’t think this is manufactured outrage. Planned Parenthood doesn’t think this is manufactured outrage. Ellison, Walz, McCollum and Oberstar don’t think is manufactured outrage.
This has nothing to do with “professional politicians.” And while politicans don’t need to be “bloodless, pristine and perfect” there are some minimum standards to be a viable candidate. And Franken has so much baggage he falls below those standards. Most “normal, sane and hardworking Americans” do not say the stupid things that Al Franken has. Lawyers and law offices do not have the kind of baggage that Franken has.
Does the DFL want to send the message that if you are offended by jokes about rape that you are humorless and politically correct? Because that is the message that Franken (and you) are sending.
And I will return your sincerity in kind Swiftee…
Al Franken represents something absolutely new in Minnesota politics and something incredibly old at the same time. Forget for a moment that he is a successful writer and entertainer, rather concentrate on him not being from the traditional DFL government/lawyer and nonprofit ranks. He reminds me of the farmers and miners that came up through the political history of our state trying to make things better for people they knew. In the 21st Digital Century Al is much like those 18th century Finnish miners from up north. A modern day worker representing other modern day workers with a firm foundation in what reality is for them.
You find fault in his hiring a stupid accountant and I see a man who understands that the tax laws are too complex now for even professionals. You find fault in his work as a comedian/writer and I see a guy who through talent and hard work made a success in the toughest business in America. If he applies even 1/10th the work it took to succeed in that hard business we will have a dynamo in the Senate.
You find fault in a successful guy, coming from the Private Sector and now entering the Public Sector… without a series of government jobs like Norm the Weasel. I want him and many more businesspeople involved in the business of government. If the Republicans have proven anything it is that those who hate government should not be allowed to run it. A Republican like Norm has never drawn a paycheck from any other source than the government or a lobbyist. It is time for people from business with an interest in the common good of government to run it.
As far as the DFLers going after Al Franken, I ran across this quote that seems to express how I feel about Betty McCollum and Cersis…
” Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great….” Mark Twain
I think Al Franken has the seeds of greatness in him. I think these other whining Republicans and some Democrats are small minded, petty fools who are letting personal political ambitions get in the way of what is best for Minnesota.
I find it hard to believe that people are so bothered by this stuff. Al Franken was a writer, he wrote stories and comedy pieces and he participated in brainstorming ideas for “Saturday Night Live” that was the subject of a magazine article. We have all done brainstorming exercises, at work, or in school or committees. Rule 1, no idea is a bad idea, all thoughts get written down, Rule 2, no criticism until you’re done. So you throw a bunch of stuff at the wall you write it all down and then afterwards you edit and see if there is anything worthwhile there. It is a common part of the creative process for writers, especially in the group setting.
Oh my God, someone told a tasteless joke! Big friggin’ deal. I am so liberal I bought a red car. I believe in socialism for chrissake. But I don’t get all exorcised over drivel like this, we have real issues facing our country, important issues that demand our attention. I am a delegate to the State Convention and I will be supporting Al Franken tomorrow because he is the candidate who best matches up with my ideals and aspirations. I believe he has the vision of what this country can be.
I met JNP in 2006, I was an Ellison supporter, I thought JNP was an interesting guy but I have never gotten the feeling that he could appeal to more than a small slice of the voting public. Some like to point out that we elected a liberal college professor once before; JNP is not that guy, sorry, never was, never will be. I was at that convention when Wellstone was nominated and proud to support him. Don’t kid yourselves, I knew Paul Wellstone and Jack you are no Paul Wellstone.
For all the whining — they really, really don’t want Franken as the candidate.
Which says he is a good choice!
Anybody here care to whine about “Sisters” or “The Apprentice?”
LYNN CHENEY’s Lesvbian Western & Scooter’s hard core porn?
Work out your sexual demons on those for awhile.
When you say “they” I am assuming you mean the Minnesota Democratic delegation right?
Nope, Kerosene — - I mean the NEOCON NATION.
The clowns who are entrenched in the DNC, are another issue & doesn’t describe all of them.
I am talking about the crazy whacked out, Rove-kissing right wing handlers
that dupe people who have their brain atrophied in some cortical regions!
So, you assume wrong.
Sorry, no prize for you.