The interview from this morning is up online here. I thought it was a very fair interview and Al did a good job really. Next weekend’s going to be interesting…
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Related Posts: Survey USA: Franken 40, Coleman 41, KSTP Picks Up Mark Olson Story, Reactions to KSTP’s Bizarre RNC Love Letter, Mike Ciresi On The Air, Bachmann *Hearts* Bush 4EVA,
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Related Posts: Survey USA: Franken 40, Coleman 41, KSTP Picks Up Mark Olson Story, Reactions to KSTP’s Bizarre RNC Love Letter, Mike Ciresi On The Air, Bachmann *Hearts* Bush 4EVA,
58 Responses to “Franken on KSTP”
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Nice job Al.
Al Franken will do great things in the Senate in our name. Al’s right we are in two wars and these people are concerned with a musty old piece of humor… there is no sense of such outrage from McCollum and the Republicans at the rapes of Abu Gharabi. Yet we have this farce over a bunch of jokes long forgotten.
Hubert Humphrey said, “None of us would trade freedom of expression for the narrowness of the public censor. America is a free market for people who have something to say, and need not fear to say it.” Unfortunately, it looks like Mike Cerisi’s people would gladly give up free speech for ambition. Republicans could not care less about the Bill of Rights, but DFLers are supposed to care.
I am saddened by the silly “outrage” politics of the Republican Party and now by some in the DFL. This is a Free Speech issue and not a moral one. An article written 8 years ago for a publication that you can purchase in every city in Minnesota is not a reason to abandon a good man. I look forward to voting for Mr. Franken in November.
I agree that this is a free speech issue. But that doesn’t mean I want a US Senator that uses his right to free speech in this way. I am going to vote for the DFL candidate for Senate. But the writing, while satirical, was foul and in my opinion, unbecoming of someone I want to represent me in the US Senate.
The question I have to ask is, is this the worse they could find? Because if there is more out there and it is worse than this, it is a problem in the election whether we like it or not, free speech not withstanding.
Haha surprising that matt and amuseinc liked what Al had to say. Funny that his expression during the interview was “I think I’m about to throw up.”
First-off, why can’t people spell CIRESI’s name correctly? Secondly, that’s crazy that you can’t see why a playboy interview like this is a big deal. It’s not a first-amendment issue, it’s about appealing to that middle 20% of swing voters who might potentially be offended by this. I’m not offended, and you obviously aren’t, but a lot of people here in the ‘burbs sure are.
If the GOP is casually leaking this right now, what do you think they’ve got for the fall? There’s a reason why the DSCC chatter is that they’re planning on investing very little money into Minnesota.
Sure the outrage generated by the GOP is fake. But look at things from differently than a “Al is God” point of view and instead from an electoral one, and you’ll understand the concern.
Amuseinc: don’t be so sure McCollum wasn’t outraged about sexual abuse at Abu Ghraib. Here’s the beginning of a press release about it from her web site:
Iraqi Human Rights Abuses Are a Failure of Leadership by President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld
Friday, May 07, 2004
“The horrific abuses by American interrogators and guards at the Abu Ghraib prison and at other facilities maintained by the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan can be traced, in part, to policy decisions and public statements of Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld.” — Washington Post, 5/06/04
Washington, DC— Congresswoman Betty McCollum (MN-04) said today that reports of prisoner abuse in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay by U.S. military personnel and private intelligence contractors indicate a grievous abdication of leadership and responsibility by President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
McCollum demanded an immediate Congressional investigation into this human rights scandal and the attempted cover-up by the Defense Department. McCollum said Secretary Rumsfeld is now “an obstacle to any successful outcome in Iraq and President Bush should remove him immediately.”
“The abuse of Iraqis in U.S. detention is an appalling violation of human rights,” said McCollum. “Congress must investigate the failures in the chain of command both at the Pentagon and in Iraq. The explicit photographs and reports of sexual abuse, exploitation and humiliation by U.S. military and intelligence personnel indicate a fundamental breakdown in the chain of command as well as what appears to be a deliberate tactic used by interrogators.”
McCollum is calling for a full investigation by the Congress into what occurred in the prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay. It is reported that 25 prisoners have died in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan… .
And another one:
McCollum Leads Call for U.N. Rapporteur to Probe Torture at U.S. Prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay
Friday, May 21, 2004
12 Members of Congress Join McCollum in Calling for Transparent Review
Washington, DC – Today, Congresswoman Betty McCollum (MN-04) was joined by 12 Members of Congress in a letter calling for President George W. Bush to invite the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture to conduct a full and impartial investigation of U.S. military prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Hundreds of photos from Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison depicting U.S. soldiers engaging in acts of physical, sexual and psychological abuse as well as violent and inhumane treatment of Iraq prisoners, along with reports of abusive interrogation techniques from Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay prompted McCollum’s letter… .
@ amuseinc
This is an EIGHT year old article. It is NOTHING.
@ Ollie.
Prisoner sexual abuse does not equal an article in an adult magazine. Not even close. An intellectually honest evaluation reveals no comparison to be reasonably made.
I don’t see why people keep saying it was EIGHT years ago. Does that matter? Maybe if those eight years are over a period where a person changes substantially, mainly earlier in life. But I don’t think the Al Franken of eight years ago is that different from the Al Franken of today. What we have to contend with is that perception, and the idea that such an article, to a good amount of Minnesotans, is unacceptable. Time doesn’t matter unless people believe the person was different then, and I don’t think that was the case. Again, even if I have no problem with it on a moral level, and I don’t, I know my morals are a little more open than other Minnesotans’.
Team Franken is arguing that anyone should be able to write or say anything about a particular demographic and then be welcomed with open arms as a candidate for elected office. This is not about the first amendment. This is about a senate candidate who contributed in his own way to degrading women. So much of Franken’s humor involves cheap shots against specific demographics. So much involves Asian women and sex. If Franken is elected will his office be a place where women and people who are not white feel comfortable? Will Al’s office be staffed with all white frat boy types who love this kind of humor? Al’s even written that the only Republican woman he would sleep with is Senator Olympia Snowe from Maine. And with that comment suddenly a woman who has worked really hard to serve the people becomes just another woman to go to bed with… Things aren’t going to get better for women with Franken in office (still no equal rights, still only 70 cents to the dollar…and a crappier health care situation….) I don’t think Franken has ever said what he will do to help women - if asked one would probably get a really smarmy reply.
I can’t vote for Franken, I can’t vote for Coleman. I will write in NOTA if there is no other option on the ballot.
If it is “nothing,” then why did a sitting congresswoman publicly speak out againt it and the rest of the congressional delegation agree with her?
No, it’s something.
I don’t think Franken has ever said what he will do to help women - if asked one would probably get a really smarmy reply.
I don’t see how we can ask people to be honest, and not jump to conclusions about someone and a situation, and then come back with an assumption like this.
I talked to Franken last night, and he wants more early childhood education, he wants to improve health care.
He told me about a early childhood program that tries to help women “and children to create lives that do not devolve into bad situations, where caseworkers have to get involved.
___
“If it is “nothing,” then why did a sitting congresswoman publicly speak out against it and the rest of the congressional delegation agree with her?
No, it’s something.”
____
It’s only something if someone makes something of it. Voters should care about the issues, elections need to be about issues. We need to call out Coleman on the crap that he’s pulled over the last 6 years. I’m still undecided, but we need to question whether Jack has been vetted, just as Franken has and will be. What will the GOP find on Jack, I don’t really know yet. I have seen some quotes from books that don’t trouble me personally, but they may trouble moderate voters, and they’ll get plastered all over the place during the general election.
Perhaps neither candidate is an angel.
It’s hard to decide which one to choose.
Do we need a first amendment lesson here? No one is calling for government restriction of Playboy or Al Franken’s speech. Rather, McCollum (and others) are exercising their own first amendment right to criticize Franken’s speech and to suggest that there are consequences to the stupid things Franken has said.
Its also pretty rich to say that McCollum doesn’t care about the abuses in Iraq, when she opposed the war from the start, and Franken was an ethusiastic supporter of the war.
I got into an argument with some Republicans at Grand Old Day this morning after the Norm Coleman parade entry went by. When I explained that I was supporting Al Franken, I was met with laughter. I am embarassed that this guy is going to be our nominee.
Then why support him?
If you’re embarrassed, don’t support him.
Imagine how embarrassed Coleman’s supporters are.
Exactly Richard, exactly.
If Franken gets the endorsement, who else are we supposed to support? I’m supporting Jack at the convention, but I really want to support the endorsed candidate. However, part of me thinks that a message needs to get sent to DFLers to stop fawning over mediocre candidates. Skip Humphrey, Roger Moe, Mike Hatch are all examples of poor candidates that DFLers got worked up over because of some idea of electability or “deserving” the nomination because it was their “turn”. I swear, at the 2006 convention I stood in disbelief as people cheered when Hatch was endorsed. “He’s electable” someone said, “he’s a fighter” said another. “We need a bulldog” said someone when confronted about his abrasiveness. What we got was a massive failure in a race that should have been ours. This senate seat should easily be ours, but we look to be punting it away again. I’m not saying Jack is a panacea for all our woes, but he’s the type of candidate we’re never willing to give a try. Except for once, and that one was named Wellstone.
Look at the states likely to be Democratic pickups in the senate this year: Virginia is a red state, New Mexico is more conservative than MN, New Hampshire is more conservative, Colorado is more conservative, Alaska is more conservative. Then look at states that have polling similar to Franken’s: North Carolina, Texas, and Mississippi. All red states, Texas and Mississippi especially so. Mississippi is actually now a better pick-up opportunity than Minnesota. Why are all these states doing as well or better than Minnesota when demographically they should be worse? Well we benefit from open seats in a few and Ted Stevens in Alaska. But in others it is either because we have good candidates like Rick Noriega or Jeane Shaheen or because our candidates aren’t hugely polarizing figures with questionable histories like in North Carolina.
I can probably think of worse candidates than Franken. You just have to look at Republican senate recruiting nationwide to see how bad it could be. But there needs to be a realization that Franken isn’t a dream candidate nor is he anywhere close to it. And in fact he probably makes the race harder for us than it otherwise needs to be.
I am supporting Franken because despite his huge flaws, he is still a lot better than Pallmeyer. I would rather go into the election this fall with a guy who writes about sex robots than a guy who thinks Osama bin Laden is a freedom fighter.
Let the republicans laugh. Do not be ashamed. He who laughs last, laughs best.
As Obama will crush McCain, so will Franken crush Coleman.
@ dan
“Franken was an ethusiastic supporter of the war.”
Please quantify this.
I’m sorry everyone, but if Democrats nominate Al Franken, Coleman mind as well begin to write his victory speech. The tax problem and Playboy article are only a fraction of what Republicans have in their vault for the general election. And the tax issue wasn’t uncovered by a blogger. I realize Franken will easily be nominated and that no candidate will suddenly appear and save Democrats from doom. However, if Franken falls hard enough and early enough, a former Senate candidate could emerge to lead Dems to victory.
Correction: Franken’s tax problem was uncovered by a blogger, not the Republican Party of Minnesota
I think the Franken problem for the DFL is that other DFL candidates are put into the bad position of having to constantly defend his “humor”. I don’t understand what is so funny about that Playboy article. When you have Keith Ellison saying that he would have a hard time explaining Franken’s words to his eleven year old, that’s devastating.
lojasmo:
You missed my point completely, as it was in response to amuseinc who said:
“Al Franken will do great things in the Senate in our name. Al’s right we are in two wars and these people are concerned with a musty old piece of humor… there is no sense of such outrage from McCollum and the Republicans at the rapes of Abu Gharabi. Yet we have this farce over a bunch of jokes long forgotten.”
Go back and read more carefully. *I* am not the one comparing this to rape in Iraqi — rather, amuseinc raised the point in order to slam McCollum. Don’t muddy the waters here. amuseinc is completely off base about her response to the human rights outrage in Iraq. That’s why I posted that. Is that clear enough now?
Let’s not allow anyone to pretend McCollum wasn’t outraged about Abu Ghraib. To distort Betty’s clear record on this — as the very first comment in this thread did — is not a valid defense of Franken.
Did anyone on here even watch the video - Al never answered the questions about the Playboy article - every time he was asked - he started spouting lines from his stump speech.
What a wasted of my time. Al won’t even answer the basic questions.
I think Jesse will jump into the race and sweep to victory.
Kieth Ellison should have kept out of this. Why would any father discuss any article in Playboy with any eleven year old? It makes no sense. This unfortunate comment seems to suggest that the world must be made in an eleven year olds’ image. This whole tempest in a teapot suggests that Minnesotans are not adult enough to deal with the real world. I’m sorry if it offends you that some people do read more than religious tracts but that is the way it is.
My comment on Representative McCollum and Abu Ghraib has to do with a sense of proper scale. We live in a good Christian country that has tortured children in our name. Good Christian leaders like George Bush who has never written a satiric article in Playboy magazine ordered that torture. Good Christians who insist that a magazine available for legal delivery to every home in America is pornaography had no problem with waterboarding in our name. That is an outrage, not an 8 year old satiric article that you have a choice to read or not. Save some of that pius outrage for real crimes not free speech.
In today’s world for Representative McCollum to bring this up like it matters is the height of PC idiocy. Quit treating people like they are all children… because surely that is the end message in this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGdHm8pWLtg
The best line is at the end where Franken explains that he believed Bush was telling the truth and says “I thought, I guess we have to go to war.”
Never mind the fact that there was a ton of evidence that Bush was not telling the truth available at the time. Never mind the fact that both Mark Dayton and Franken’s purported hero Paul Wellstone opposed the war. Franken thought it was a good idea to start a pre-emptive war. He wasn’t even running for anything at the time - he just weighed on his support for going to war.
Franken has since admitted he was wrong, and even admits it in that clip. But the point here is that Betty McCollum was opposed to the war from the start. Franken owns a piece of everything that has happened in Iraq, including Abu Grabe, and Betty McCollum does not.
Norm Coleman is an unpopular incumbent who is closely tied to an unpopular president, a tragic and unpopular war, an administration known for heartless corruption and lies. Really, he should be quite easy to beat. And if we can have a public conversation about Coleman’s failed job, he will be defeated. If, however, we spend the next 5 months talking about various Franken personal issues, we are going to have Coleman for another 6 years.
Once, when asked how he would deal with Republican smears like this, Franken replied, “Jujitsu.” Meaning that he would deflect the opponent’s force and send it back to him. Clearly that is what he tried to do today. My judgment is that he did not succeed, that most people watching the interview would say that it was about unemployment and taxes and Playboy articles. I don’t believe most people would come away thinking seriously about Coleman’s failings.
I will say again: These are baseless neocon smears against Franken, and he deserves much better. He is an honorable and honest man. But this is certainly not the conversation I want to be having with Minnesota voters from now until November.
amuseinc, talk about muddying the waters. A big reason I get so frustrated with our party is because we go off the rail on subjects like this. Any questioning of our party or candidates isn’t met with an answer but with an anti-Bush or anti-GOP propoganda piece. (“YEAH??? Well bush lied to get us into Iraq!!!”) Yeah, they’re important, absolutely, a lot more so than Franken’s porno piece.
But please, please PLEASE tell me that you at least accept the premise what I’m trying to get across here - that Abu Grabe and Franken/Playboy are unrelated. And that the middle of the roaders who decide which way an election swings care about whether or not Franken has thrown out shit like that.
We’ve got some great people in our party, but apparently a pretty big toolbox when it comes to fielding state-wide candidates. We’re stuck chosing between JNP and Alan Franken Inc.? For a United States Senate seat? Lame-o.
Do I hear an uncommited?
Another reaction I forgot to mention:
When asked to contrast himself with Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer, Franken mentioned two things. First, Franken described a strong grassroots campaign. Second, Franken said that he has a ton of money.
The first claim seems absolutely silly to me, from my perspective as a JNP volunteer. Jack’s Uptown office is crammed with volunteers every night. The callers who talk to delegates are volunteers. The visibility folks at conventions are volunteers. The contributions are from people of modest incomes who live in Minnesota. If Franken wants to see what a grassroots campaign looks like, it drives an older little subcompact car that has Jack bumper stickers on it.
The second claim is clearly true: Franken has buckets of money. But I am not sure I would brag about it too much on the air, really. 80% of it comes from outside Minnesota. And talking about it only reinforces Franken’s image as a wealthy non-Minnesotan. (He grew up here, of course. I’m not talking about reality, just perception.)
Well, that’s my little bit of advise for the evening. If I were Bob Schrum, I would have made a bundle of money from those pearls of wisdom.
Don’t make stuff into something its not.
We’ve had enough years of Normy being a good puppet on stage & the incompetence of Bush.
Demure One doesn’t need to like Playboy. Avert your eyes.
Run screaming from the room in solidarity.
My only question:
How prudish and repressed ARE Minnesotans that they are willing to be manipulated by false outrage?
And what do some people here want? To lose to Norm Coleman?
More of the same? More Normy playing “go along” to the same mess we ahave HAD for 8 years? THEY are helping Norm.
Then they are part of the manipulation. They are not interested in McCollums other positions in the least. Dare I say TROLL?
JNP. And Cerisi even far more so: couldn’t make the cut in the caucuses.
The people have spoken.
They may be excellent candidates, even if I have reservations about the dirty tactics apparently some of their operatives are willing to embrace.
Or are these pretenders - and reallt Neoconservatives?? The people who got us into this mess?
Don’t play Hillary campaign & Bush campaign tricks on people on what I thought was the same side!
If anyone really wanted to get nasty in the same vein:
There is peripheral stuff on Coleman.
Mockingbird - you just don’t get it. Your responses also demonstrate when it comes to treating women and minorities with respect well…why even go that route? Simply tell these groups there is something wrong with them. “How prudish and repressed ARE Minnesotans that they are willing to be manipulated by false outrage?” No Mockingbird - this isn’t false outrage. This is real. I’ve got two daughters and I would like them to have a state where elected officials show at least a basic level of support for women. Your guy imitates Asian women and has them saying that they will f**k GIs. And the DFL has a history of promoting men over women - at some point this has to stop.
Frankly I think this attitude is very pervasive in the DFL. I wish you could experience what it is like to be a woman and try to step up and participate - there are some successes - I will grant you that. But if the DFL were to go through all the different positions within the organization and do a gender analysis - it would show very clearly this is an organization where men have far more powerful roles and women have most of the grunt work. Women are the precinct captains…and men are the district chairs.
Franken confirms clearly that this is a good old boys group. Your responses reveal that you don’t care about this and indeed you think this is a good thing. And damn any woman who questions the humor of Al Franken - she must have serious problems….very typical response. Very DFL.
Demure One, I don’t want to rain on your pity parade but every County or Senate District in the DFL has the following in its’ Constitution.
“The Executive Committee shall consist of the Chair, Associate Chair (of different gender), Secretary, Treasurer, Affirmative Action Office, and eleven (11) Directors elected by the Senate District Convention, with gender balance of the Directors as required by the State DFL Constitution.”
You will also note the issue of Gender Balance is a requirement of the State DFL Constitution. There isn’t an executive or Central Committee that does not follow this practice from International Falls to the Iowa border. The issue of Gender Balance is also at the local caucus level with all delegates that move to the next level all the way through the process. It has been this way since I think the party reforms of 1972.
Perhaps you should try some truth with your outrage? I also suggest that you read a history of satire and its’ political effect in history. I find Irish children to be delicious eating, especially when barbecued.
Why are we in the process of nominating Al Franken? What, exactly, does he bring to the table? Do you, do any of us, want to spend this fall explaining away Al Franken’s various connections to Playboy, if we don’t have to?
Because I never got the chance to vote for Jonathan Swift?
I couldn’t think of anything more Norm could ask for from this post. A bunch of democrats tearing apart their probable nominee. Whoever is elected from our convention, we need to stand behind them and knock Normie out. Just about anyone posting here today could do a better job than Norm Coleman. As long as they keep us arguing about playboy and small differences between their candidates, Norm’s track record as a senator stays in the shadows. Lets talk issues, from the past 8 years to the present. What a waste, to not know our enemy, we destroy ourselves. And then Coleman and his neocon puppetmasters can go back to destroying our country in the fall. We need to UNITE. I sincerely hope after the convention we can fall in line and kick some hypocrite, war criminal, hate mongering ass this fall. If we don’t it will be our own fault.
@ FUMR
“Did anyone on here even watch the video - Al never answered the questions about the Playboy article - every time he was asked - he started spouting lines from his stump speech.”
This article ‘issue’ is BS. AL shouldn’t even dignify it. Or, perhaps he should say: “Everybody should know I wrote a bunch of books, and acted on the teevee too.” That should be the extent of his answering questions regarding the article.
He needs to stick to the issues, and that’s what he did. Good work, Al.
@ ollie ox. Sorry.
Pretending problems don’t exist isn’t very effective in making them go away. I will certainly support whomever the convention nominates, but that is no reason at all to nominate a candidate who can’t win and who will be a liability on the ticket.
I am pretty effective at rationalization. I am prepared be eloquent in explaining difference between a satirist and a comedian. But the question now, at this moment, is why should I have to”
We have a chance to nominate a candidate whose campaign this fall will be based on the issues, which it happens are universally in our favor. Why not choose the candidate tha makes the campaign we want and need to run possible?
Do not think that you do not have a choice here. JNP is a good candidate despite what Dan thinks of him believing that Osama Bin Laden is a freedom fighter. Simply not true. I really do not care about whether or not this story has merit, the fact that independents in this state will not like it is reason enough to believe that it is an issue. It was a funny article by a comedian, no fault there. However, we are going to need those people who are only interested in charecter, or what they percieve as someones charecter. If people voted on issues alone or what really affected them day to day, Democrats would likely win almost all elections, but they don’t. People vote on emotion and perception. Al is losing on both counts.
Hiram, I agree that we need to address these problems. And I think JNP can beat Norm on the issues. But I see the Conservatives attacking the presumptive nominee, not JNP. And as far as caucuses go, I see Al as that nominee, not JNP. And I think that the democrats of MN have spoken, and have chosen Franken, so I will back him up over Norm anytime, anywhere. I think it would be a surprise to everyone if Jack becomes the nominee. I also think realistically that Al Franken can beat Norm on the issues.
But we cannot have a broken democratic base after our convention. After said convention, we had better stand up and defend Al at every opportunity, using the “Jujitsu” tactic against the Republicans at every smear and insignificant turn. Making the playboy issue significant is what they are hoping for, and if we turn around and attack them on the important, very real and present issues their candidate has helped to create, the tables will turn. But to say that Al can’t win is defeatism we can do without.
Everytime playboy is brought up, we need to bring up the lack of oversight issue over the last 8 years. We need to bring up Norm’s voting record. If we let the conservatives choose and hold their talking points, we will lose on insignificant issues. If we run on the reality of today, and true and important choices, we can win, regardless of our nominee. Norm is a sitting duck if we run on issues and his record. The republicans just don’t have the votes if we run on what really matters. I am positive that Al can beat Norm Coleman. Whether his, or any other nominee’s campaign is issue focused is up to us.
I’m going to support who ever I want to support. I don’t care what the Republicans think about a thread on publius. Franken is not only an ass-clown, but also a geniune drag on our otherwise pretty stellar ticket this year. Voicing these opinions on an anonymous blog won’t change a thing.
What, sohuld we all just fall in line like the GOP has done every year and never ask questions? Where did that get them?
amuseinc - “I also suggest that you read a history of satire and its’ political effect in history.”
It seems to be another one of your subject changes. Satire (which is already getting to be an old response, five months before the General) is a fine way to take on the establishment. BUT HE WASN’T TAKING ON THE ESTABLISHMENT WITH THE PLAYBOY PIECE! What affect did his smut-o-gram have on any politician in the world? It was just a weird-ass column that makes any normal person at least a little uncomfortable to read.
You cannot dismiss every damn thing he’s done as satire, despite what Barr thinks.
Paulsing… satire is not just about politics, it can be about social order, technology and even the sexual habits of American males. I’m not changing the subject, this tempest in a teapot came about because of some words printed in a magazine 8 years ago that seem to have some faint hearted souls in a tizzy. I think that is more absurd than the article ever was… and twice as funny if truth be told. This is not about elites or sophistication it is about foolishness.
Surprise, surprise a comedian made jokes that were somewhat blue. In a satire on society, someone actually used language and ideas that a 5th grader should not be a part of… The outrage that a publication meant for adults does not tow the Christian Taliban line that makes infants out of every one of us. And to think that otherwise sensible DFLers are swallowing this bullshit as if it were realistic.
May I suggest you go to your local mechanic shop and ask if anybodies heard a good joke lately. Don’t be surprised if it might be a little off color. But it certainly is OK for most Minnesotans of voting age. I suggest that the jokes told in the Senate Cloakroom would cause a blush or two for your maiden aunt but it certainly does not disqualify the Senators from serving.
This is gotcha politics of the worst kind and for an otherwise good Representative like McCollum to play it is disgusting. We have a Senator right now who is besmirching our good name as a state by supporting torture, waste and corruption but the man who can unseat him has to defend his right of free speech to his own party. That adds a new definition to stupid and venal politics.
Two questions:
Why ARE we spending so much time talking about the flaws of Al Franken? (This is not a rhetorical question. I would really like people to spend a minute thinking about this question and attempt an answer.)
Does anyone think we would be having the same discussion if Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer as our presumptive nominee?
Bonus question: Will all you Franken supporters be O.K. if Jack gets the endorsement?
Charley, I’m convinced that if Jack gets the nomination we will be having discussions on various faux pas based on being too liberal, not supporting the troops, being an elitist professor and on and on. Same ______, different day. Unless he changes his name to Mike Cerisi…
I’ll support the man if he is the nominee but if you think that the Republican slime machine is unable to manufacture dirt on him you don’t know Republicans. It will be about the issues… of sending a Socialist communist who wants America to fail to the Senate from Minnesota. “That DFL guy cares more about everybody anywhere else but Minnesota and he is going to raise your taxes to send free money overseas to people who hate us. Just read his books.”
The biggest difference would be that maybe, just maybe the local party apparatchik, or “agents of the apparatus” might not attack him the way they have attacked Franken. Of course in the general they wouldn’t be so blatant about it. But I wouldn’t bet the farm on that one as he is no more an insider than Franken. The DFL Party and its’ standard candidates need to be shook up… by Franken or JNP doesn’t matter to me.
I don’t think we can win this election by pretending our candidate doesn’t exist, and I don’t know why we need to or want to.
This is an easily solvable problem, that becomes only more difficult down the road. At this point, we as a party have nothing invested in an Al Franken candidacy, and by nominating someone else, his problems go away.
My question remains the same. With a variety of candidates and potential candidates out there who agree with Al on the issues, who are just as articulate as Al, and who don’t have Al’s problems, what precisely does Al bring to the table? Why not do the easisest thing, the best thing for the voters of Minnesota, and nominate someone else?
Amuseinc, first you totally misrepresent Betty McCollum on the Iraq war - then you respond to my criticisms by citing DFL policy that is suppose to bring about gender balance. But Amuseinc. even with that gender policy 100% of the people serving as chairs could be men. Check out the DFL website that lists the chairs - note the number of men to women is roughly two to one.
http://www.dfl.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={F017D88F-4280-4522-AF00-DE0A194D5328}
The problem is the DFL is still a good-ole-boys organization…and Franken with his crude humor actually represents this party well.
Thanks for playing…
Amuseinc, what are you going to say when it comes out that:
Franken stole letterhead from the Kennedy School of Government and mailed prominent members of the Bush administration about their views on abstinence-only education?
Franken did cocaine?
Franken screwed up his taxes (shoot, that already happened!)?
Franken made jokes about killing various people?
You know what? I don’t care what jokes he made as a comedian and I don’t care what he’s done in his past. Except that now he’s running for the most elite club in the world, and we should expect the very elite. Just because you personally aren’t offended by a joke doesn’t mean others won’t be.
This fool running around makes me sick. He’s a damned comedian with a 747 full of baggage and we’re trying to put him into a senate seat.
Just for the hell of it, I actually read the Franken article. My favorite part:
“At first, I thought it was my imagination, but when Dr. DeVine escorted me into the virtual reality room, she seemed to be coming on to me. She allowed her bodacious breasts to brush against my face as she lowered me into the prototype of the Virtu-Screw 2000. “How does that feel?” she cooed. I didn’t know if she was referring to the Naugahyde bucket seat or to the two erect nipples pushing through her white lab coat and nearly poking my eyes out.
Then Dr. DeVine placed the Virtu-Screw helmet over my head. Sitting in the pitch dark, I felt slightly vulnerable but also excited. She asked me which setting I wanted. Since I’ve been married 23 years, I naturally chose “blow job.” My chair was abruptly tilted backward and I “felt” my pants being unzipped. If I hadn’t known I was sitting in the most state-of-the-art virtual reality sex machine, I would’ve sworn that a real woman’s hand had pulled my cock from my pants.
My nervousness disappeared, and I sat back and enjoyed the amazingly realistic cyber job. It was every bit as good as the last real blow job I had gotten 23 years earlier — if not better — because when I shot my wad, the virtual mouth swallowed. …” http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/05/30/2052/excerpts_from_frankens_playboy_article
Paulsing do you honestly want me to go through the cretins that are in “the most elite club in the world” and compare them to Al Franken, because quite bluntly he will hold up pretty damn good compared to the present Republican thieves and perverts. I suppose the body that allowed Senator “Diapers & a Prostitute” to get off without so much a hand slap or who think Senator Wide Stance’s bathroom antics are not worthy of comment might do well to have the influence of Al Franken.
Republican Senator Strom Thurmond was a racist pedophile who had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child. The child-mother was a servant in his home. I will give you that he supported financially the offspring but I just don’t think Al’s writing to Bush administration officials about their abstinence only education plans is in the same league.
Keep up the moronic slurs against Al Franken because he is going to beat you and Norm the Weasel on the issues in November.
Paulsing I also suggest you check the drug usage of Norm Coleman during the roady years… that and the underage companionship before you go off half cocked.
Norm has his issues too, as we all know. But that’s not the campaign I want to be involved in.
So, Hiram - are you gonna let Norm hide behind Carey while the GOP IS involved in “than kind of campaign?”
Or are you mad as hell, and willing to hit back harder?
…there are a lot of voters in this state who are prudes and expect their candidates to be “perfect,” even when the voters themselves are not. Bunch of fakes acting all haughty…always be suspicious of those who make the most noise against moral issues…Typical Republicans making hay out of Franken’s past ‘cause, like always, they lose big when discussing issues that really matter…
Everyone knows the only issues that matter in this election are ones involving Frankens character.
Debate about Colemans character are irrelevant.
Wellstone didn’t, and I won’t either.
Wow, super weird. Here I thought Strom Thurmond was dead and had been senator of South Carolina. But it turns out that Minnesotans and South Carolinians are the exact same electorate. (Get it? I was using, wait for it … SATIRE!!!)
And you know what, you’re probably right with all that. Because Al has done a great job of jumping on the offensive against Coleman these last months. All we hear about is how Coleman sucks and has a horrible past. Franken’s brilliant oratorical skills have ended all controversy about his past and will no doubt continue to do so up to and after the October surprise that will come courtesy of the RNSC. (Still using SATIRE!!!)
And you’re right. We as Democrats shouldn’t aim for the best. Especially in Minnesota. We should probably try to do better that Mark Foley, but not too much, because we don’t want it to seem as though we’re in any way better than the sleazy 109th congress. Let’s vote “Franken ’08 – Better than Pedophile!” (Yay for SATIRE!!!)
Typical,
It looks like you’re using SATIRE!!! Hehe.
But seriously, I agree with you that Coleman’s severe flaws open him up to some potentially damaging attacks. But my thought is that a forum for these grievances will not exist so long as Franken is being so consistently attacked. Thus far he has proven himself unable to deal with something even so minor as a tax violation, and we have yet to see the true fall-out from the playboy stint.
So here it is - best-case scenario is that both candidates look bad because of an attack-ad war. Challengers rarely do well in that environment. Worst-case scenario, our side never gets to show what a whore Coleman is because everyone is too busy reading about a virtual blowjob.
Jim Webb of Virginia had problems with excerpts of his writings being criticized by his opponent, incumbent Republican Senator George Allen ten days before election in 2006.
Article at:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2008/06/sam_rasoul_hopes_cheap_gas_tur.html?nav=rss_blog
excerpt:
Allen Blasts Webb Novels For Sex Scenes
Veteran Says Works Reflect Trauma of War
By Michael D. Shear and Tim Craig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, October 28, 2006; Page A01
RICHMOND, Oct. 27 — Virginia Sen. George Allen (R) has accused his Democratic opponent, James Webb, of writing inappropriate sex scenes and demeaning descriptions of women in his fictional books, the latest character attack in a close and nasty campaign.
With 10 days remaining before Election Day, the allegations about sex-laced passages in Webb’s writings inject a new question into a campaign that has centered almost exclusively on character issues: Should the author of a fictional work who runs for office be personally held to account for the scenes in his books?
Webb, a former U.S. Navy secretary, responded angrily Friday on Washington Post Radio, defending his novels as “serious” works and calling Allen’s attack part of the senator’s negative campaign that is devoid of ideas. “To take these things out and pull excerpts out and force them on people … is just a classic example of the way this campaign is run,” Webb said. “Literature is literature. I’ve made my career as a novelist. George Allen doesn’t have a record to run on.”
Webb’s books, including “Lost Soldiers,” “Something to Die For” and “Fields of Fire,” are historical novels that describe wartime horrors in Vietnam and people dealing with the aftermath of combat. Webb is a decorated Marine who served in Vietnam.
Allen campaign officials provided excerpts from the books — some of them depicting acts of incest and graphic sexuality — to the Drudge Report Web site Thursday night. Matt Drudge’s Internet blog often breaks or promotes stories with sensational angles, most recently the scandal involving former Rep. Mark Foley (R-Fla.). Allen’s aides, who have been trying to get other news organizations to write about the excerpts for weeks, issued statements saying the fictional scenes in Webb’s novels reflect poorly on Webb’s character and fitness for office.
Allen told reporters … that Webb’s books are demeaning to women. “My opponent hasn’t been in public office,” he said. “But he talks about the books he’s written and his creative writing, his novels. Those are some of his writings… . People can make that judgment.”
Allen’s aides would not say whether the senator had read Webb’s books. They said he did not know about the books’ contents six years ago, when he accepted Webb’s endorsement for his first Senate campaign.
Webb said the graphic scenes in his novels, many of which are set in wartime, are taken out of context and do not accurately reflect the books or their content: combat. He said he has written about disturbing scenes that he witnessed on the battlefield or as a journalist in Southeast Asia.
“It is an observation about how the human species lives,” Webb said after Mark Plotkin, the radio show’s host, read one of the more lurid passages, prompting objections from the candidate.
Allen’s attack on Webb’s novels occurred three weeks after the senator gave a two-minute speech pleading for a return to issues after having defended himself against personal-character scandals for months. “The negative personal attacks and baseless allegations have also pulled us away from what you expect and deserve,” Allen told voters in the unusual paid television commercial.
By Friday morning, however, the new allegations unleashed by his campaign had become the highlight of morning talk-radio shows and cable news outlets. Conservative groups seized on the news, with one calling for Webb to withdraw for writing “Triple X” novels. Cable news shows debated the issue throughout the day.
Several Web sites and blogs printed the passages. One, from “Fields of Fire,” was: “He saw the invitation with every bouncing breast and curved hip… . He was thirteen… . She was fifteen… .” Another was about a man seeing his mother: “She was naked underneath the robe … and the robe fell loosely away, revealing her.”
Kay James, an Allen campaign adviser, criticized the writings: “How can women trust Jim Webb to represent their views in the Senate when chauvinistic attitudes and sexually exploitative references run throughout his fiction and nonfiction writings?”
Webb’s allies rushed to his defense, saying the attempt to criticize an author for scenes in a work of fiction reflects a Republican campaign in Virginia that is in disarray and desperately searching for a way to win at any cost.
Best-selling author John Grisham, who with Stephen King held a fundraiser for Webb in Charlottesville, said Friday in an interview: “This is a clear sign of a desperate campaign if they plow through novels trying to find evidence of character. I seriously doubt George Allen is much of a reader, but if he would read more, maybe he would understand the difference between fiction and nonfiction.”
Some people said Webb’s novels are works of imagination intended to be informative and provide entertainment, not statements of actions that Webb endorses.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a Vietnam war hero who has endorsed Allen, praises “Lost Soldiers” on the book jacket. “It captures well the lingering scars of the war,” he says. “A novel of revenge and redemption that tells us much about both where Vietnam is headed and where it has been.”
An aide to McCain said Friday she could not reach the senator.
(Staff writer Robert Barnes contributed to this report.)
From amazon.com:
So you’d like to… Read Porn by Christian Conservatives
A guide by Lisa K. Mckinney “smallfrybooks” (Mesquite, TX United States)
Bears and little girls. Crack hos. Sisters.
These powerful Christian conservatives have made quite a stir telling the rest of us what is wrong with us. We need to read their works so that we may become as holy as they are. Start small with these three gems:
Here’s a wonderful reading list by the lovely Second Lady Lynne V. Cheney, Sisters. You can’t afford it though. It seems to be out of print. Hmmmmm.
And then there’s accused traitor I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s The Apprentice: A Novel. You have to bathe in bleach after reading it, though. Yeccccch.
Don’t overlook blue-eyed Mr. Bill O’Reilly’s Those Who Trespass: A Novel of Television and Murder. Be prepared for underage sex and drugs, spoiled mattresses, etc. You can get this one for less than 50 cents. If you’re really sick, you can pay to buy the audio and hear his dulcet tones reading his perversion to you: Those Who Trespass.
You want smut by Lucianne Goldberg, G. Gordon Liddy, or the Others? Look it up yourself — I have to go take a hot shower. I feel grody. http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/346ETUSKQLYAX