I’ve gone over and gandered at the new Draft Ciresi site a few times and rather quickly come to the conclusion that it’s either a bunch of Republicans or a bunch of anonymous cowards. I think I’ll be secure in this conclusion for a while.
Here are my concerns with the site:
1. MNPublius doesn’t allow for it’s contributors/correspodents/posters to put up content anonymously. And for good reason, we stand by what we say and do with our names and our reputations. According to the Political Muse, the folks behind Draft Ciresi say that they’re concerned that if they posted with their real names they would be blackballed by the DFL. This is rubbish. Many people have been involved with candidates who have challenged the DFL endorsee and they’ve been welcomed back into the party. I don’t have a problem if you don’t like Al Franken, I don’t have a problem if you want Mike Ciresi to enter the race — I do have a problem with you anonymously torpedoing the candidacy of another Democrat. And that is precisely what you’re doing when you ask for ‘dirt’ on Al Franken.
2. I think it’s fair to say that this astroturfed website isn’t the work of three concerned DFL activists between the disclaimer
“Draft Ciresi! is a nonpartisan group seeking the best possible Senator for the great state of Minnesota.”
the graphics, the account with Grand Central and the press release it just smacks of a semi-professional hackjob.
They swear and proclaim, they’re not Republicans! And they tell Michael Brodkorb to go to hell! Calling Michael a couple dirty names isn’t going to keep him from pimping, promoting and exploiting your website. And posting the ads that the Republican party put up about Franken? Suuuuuuuuure you’re batting for the same team I am.
I like Mike Ciresi — I was hoping that he would provide a clear alternative to Al Franken — and he didn’t. A guy whose pitch centered on “I’ve never been outworked” was outworked by a comedian, who unlike Ciresi had never run for office before. At MnCampaignReport commenter NWDemocrat tries to lay Mike’s failure this spring at our feet,
And, for the record, the Ciresi campaign was invisible only because the press and blogs chose not to cover it in favor of covering Franken.
No it wasn’t. The Ciresi campaign was invisible this spring because of flawed leadership and a less than coherent campaign. Let’s start with the fact that Ciresi resigned as Chairman of RKMC only a week (IIRC) before he dropped out of the race, Al Franken had been campaigning full time for nearly a year before Ciresi followed suit. The leadership of the Ciresi camp was blind to the changing tide of this years campaign namely the importance of engaging new people. There were hints of this in the 2005 Minneapolis City Council races, it was made obvious in 2006 and in 2007 and 2008 the people who were leading Ciresi’s campaign were oblivious to it. This is particularly frustrating because from several attorneys who have worked for Mike they have described him as an amazing manager who is never caught off guard. His fundraising was uninspiring and he never hit on a message that resonated with anyone. Needless to say even if he gets back in the race I’d have a hard time taking him seriously until he proved he would do all of this.
Unlike Mark Dayton Ciresi has said from day one that he would not self-fund, this stands in the way of any vigorous primary challenge he can offer up if just because of the fact that it will be very very hard to raise the sums of money necessary to saturate the airwaves with ads and to build a complimentary field organization.
So, basically if Ciresi jumps back in the race without correcting all the things that sunk his campaign in the first place and largely self-funding he should be ready to come in second again.
And finally DraftCiresi-ites you shouldn’t expect much attention, consideration or respect from this guy until you put your names and your reputation where your mouth is. If you’re right you’ll be vindicated, if you’re wrong at least you’ll be able to say you were honest.
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I don’t think it’ll be that easy to knock-off Franken at this point. He has an organization that would be tough to match this late in the game. With that said, I’m very uneasy with Franken and would welcome an opportunity to have options before November. This election should be done with the RNC cutting its loses with Coleman, instead it could a undeserving hold for them.
I’m with you on this one, Sean. The site doesn’t feel right, and as far as “non-partisan” anonobots urging a candidate to enter a partisan primary — who are they kidding?
My biggest problem at this point, and the one that raises the red flag the most, is that these individuals will not even reveal themselves in a private email correspondence.
I try to keep some anonymity (not that I am all that important to begin with) but at the same time am more than willing to sign my real name when talking/emailing with supporters.
I remain very skeptical.
Mike Ciresi isn’t dumb- he wisely pulled out of this race before it became a $10,000,000 battle for the senate spot on the DFL side of the ballot. Having done that, he’ll wisely stay on the sidelines and save his money and credibility for the 2010 race for governor.
Democrats eating their own…nice.
Swiftee, I agree 100%,
Everyone knows there are no Republicans who eat their own. We are one voice, one set of 100% correct talking points, and we say them over and over and over and over and over again because they are so true.
Keep on doing a great job spreading discontent on the internet and sending “leftists” to the third ring of hell.
Great Job!
It looks like astroturf to me, and sounds similar to a Hillary for McCain women’s website that Sean Hannity was promoting a couple nights ago - he had the woman running the site on his show. It was very suspect.
Hard to eat your own when you don’t have any young ones anymore . . .
Repugs DO eat their own:
“The former chairman of the Young Republican National Federation pleaded guilty Thursday in Indiana to criminal deviate conduct, which could land him in prison for up to six years. Glenn Murphy Jr. was caught performing oral sex on a man who was asleep while the act took place. Along with the prison sentence, Murphy would have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life, according to the Courier-Journal newspaper in Louisville, Ky.” http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3352304
I would call this “Astroturf,” but a Trojan blog.
Sean, you know that I don’t post anonymously. I use my first name here, but everybody knows what my last name is (it’s Underwood).
But I think you are mistaken in discounting the horrible effects of bullying in this process. Let me give two examples.
At a table near mine, a young woman was fingering the Jack t-shirt of another young woman near her. I didn’t know her, didn’t know who she favored for Senate, but I could see she wanted a shirt. So I offered one to her, which she accepted with obvious delight. An hour or so later, I saw her gesturing angrily, the Jack shirt gone. I went over and asked her if she had gotten warm from wearing two t-shirts, or if she changed her mind about her preferred Senate candidate. She said that, as soon as she put on the Jack shirt, “the vultures” (her words) descended and began hounding her mercilessly. She was more determined than ever to vote for Jack, but she needed a break from the vultures, she said.
Another woman at my table didn’t want to tell me who she wanted for Senate, which of course was her right. But it seems like there was more to it that that, some element of fear. After the first ballot (which she cast for Jack), she told me the story. She had been in an Obama/education subcaucus at the SD convention. Completely unknown to most in the subcaucus, they had combined with a Franken/something subcaucus (by a woman she described as a “psychobitch”). By the time she found out, the name had been frozen and the convention was adjourned; it was too late to change the subcaucus name. There were animated discussions at the SD convention for an hour after everyone else had gone home, but nothing could be changed. When she answered the telephone I.D. question with Jack’s name, she got more than an earful. She was threatened with being boycotted from any further party involvement, including any post or delegate position.
Ask anyone. You can hear dozens of these stories, if you do. The problem is, it is highly unlikely that many of the dozens and dozens of people who were bullied last weekend will want to return to the convention ever again. That convention in Rochester had a lot of new people in it, participating for the first time in the caucus/convention system. Yet, because of bad experiences, many of them will never return. By alienating this new blood, we are cutting our party off from its own future.
This isn’t about what candidate got endorsed. It is completely about HOW we endorse. It we disagree respectfully, we will get bigger and stronger. If we bully people, we make ourselves much more like Republicans; we shrink the party.
I wish I had a good solution; I don’t. There are nasty people in this world, and quite a disproportionate number of them seem drawn to politics. I’m just saying that I quite understand the need for anonymous posting, because I have seen with my own eyes that the threats are real.
Charley-
Welcome to the caucus system. Not for the weak willed or easily rattled.
Charley, I congratulated a lot of JNP supporters in Rochester; told ‘em to hold their heads high ‘cause they fought with enthusiasm, valor and integrity and the party is stronger because people like them are in it.
I didn’t see any of the “bullying”, and if I did I would have said something.
JNP is a fine man, and I think he’ll be around for a long time. His best days are to come.
Two years ago I worked for Sen. Steve Kelley. This year I worked for Al Franken. I was standing in the 7th CD when JNP took the stage for his concession speech. I looked around and saw the tears and disappointment of the JNP supporters. I knew exactly how they felt. I had been in the same position two years prior. I spent the next fifteen minutes sharing tears and hugs with JNP folks, especially some of the younger ones who are new to the process. I also spent the greater part of Saturday afternoon seeking out all those JNP supporters who I have met over the last few months and have gained much respect, the Hilty crew, Lorna, Charles, Eric, Robert, Kathleen, Rick and others including JNP and his wife. Losing sucks, and it may take time for healing and reconciliation, but it will happen. Do supporters and organizers sometime get overzealous? Of course they do and I’m sure both sides can give examples. But overall I thought both campaigns and the vast majority of their supporters left the convention with mutual respect and admiration. I know I did.
Lojasmao,
You say, “Welcome to the caucus system. Not for the weak willed or easily rattled.”
Fine, I can accept that you do not want to put any rules of civility on convention attenders. Quite Hobbesian of you. The brutal king must rule to prevent “bellum omnium contra omnes” and all that.
But what sense does that bullying make if it results in picking a candidates who lose (and I am sure that we could both come up with plenty of examples here)? What sense in alienating both political veterans and newcomers whose main interest is civil engagement rather than blood sport? Why allow bullies to destroy the very caucus/convention institutions in the process of winning?
Do you really want our candidate pool to be chosen by thugs and political mercenaries? If that is the case, I can almost certainly guarantee that there will be only horrible candidates for either of us to chose from.
Charley’s assessments are correct.
When logasmao displays an attitude such as let’s cross swords, to me it sounds as though lagasmao doesn’t think that his ox will ever get gored, or his political nose will ever get bloodied.
Wow-
Charley and el pres. are quick to complain about alleged bullying, but are also quick to engage in name calling.
Mote something, something, log something something.
Charley, the plural of anecdote is not data. The supporters of JNP may have felt bullied, but it does not follow that bullying actually occurred.
And El. P. I was a Dean supporter in 2003/4 My political nose has indeed been bloodied.
It is called politics, for goodness sake. As I said, not for the weak willed nor the thin skinned.
Ciresi is a good man… Sometimes good men dont get into office not because they are failing but rather because they will not lower them selves to the degree campaigns require these days. That said, now that we have a nominee, I wish Franken all the best and hope that he and Ciresi can represent MN someday in some capacity.
Dear Lojasmao,
I am truly sorry if you felt I was calling you names. In reading over my references to “bullies” and “goons” and “political mercenaries,” I can certainly understand why you would have reacted that way. My intention was to address bullying behavior, not at all to call you a bully.
But your anecdote/data meme doesn’t make any sense. We don’t need Chuck Schumer to fund a DSCC statistical analysis of bullying in order to know that it exists. Anecdotes will do actually. Unless you believe that my examples don’t actually illustrate bullying or unless you believe that I am lying, then those two stories prove that bullying occurred…at least in those two cases at my table.
I also think you completely underestimate the political power of people’s stories. Al Franken, at his best, connected with people through his stories and through theirs. He told stories about broke college students selling plasma to pay tuition. He told about Franni’s father dying and about her family pulling themselves up with help from social security survivor benefits. He illustrated the failure of No Child Left Behind by telling stories about Tomasin’s frustrations in teaching in urban schools.
Dean’s bean-counters have revolutionized the grassroots power of internet fundraising and organizing; I sincerely tip my hat to them. But no candidate wins by quoting statistics. And delegates don’t come to caucuses unless friends invite them or unless a candidate sets their passion on fire, or unless a personal crisis lets them understand that they must seek solutions.
Those bullied delegates were alienated at the convention. Again, I will say that it is not about which candidate got the endorsement. It is about having a process that invites people to become involved. It is about making our party stronger and bigger and more effective.
It dismays me that you seem not to understand what I am saying, since I truly believe that our party cannot win by merely trying to duplicate the top-down, narrow-tent, insider politics of the Republicans. Frankly, they simply do it better.
Look, Lojasmao, those delegates FELT bullied, whether or not I produce studies that prove it or even if you agree with their definition of “bullied.” They felt bullied. They were young people in their 20’s and they may not ever come back to a DFL function again.
Do you want them with us or not?
One man’s bully is another man’s hard campaigner. Having been bullied by some of the best, hey Hillary Supporters I’m looking at you, I can say it is very uncomfortable but it is a part of the process. Prior to the nomination I had a few discussions with JNP supporters and disagreed with their assessments strongly but never felt like I did not respect their viewpoint. (In person I am perhaps more charming than online?)
We do need to reach out to JNP supporters and we do need to grow the party. The real question is politics a cult of personality or a group activity. Jack is a dynamic man and a great candidate… how do we find a role for him that he wants to have. He ran a respectful and hard fought campaign, showed real ability to organize… I can’t say enough good things about him and his supporters. It is up to the party to work hard at bringing that energy to bear.
(Bad Joke) Perhaps he can move to St. Paul and run for Betty McCollum’s seat, since she seems to have forgotten what party loyalty means. I’m pretty certain her friends in the GOP could find a place for her. Not.
To become a delegate at the state convention, you have to be elected at both the precinct and senate district level. If you can’t stand up to the “bullying” you have no business whatsoever putting yourself up as a delegate. When I have tried to become a delegate, my pitch is that I don’t have a second choice - I will support my candidate until my candidate had dropped out - and that I will talk to as many delegates for opposing candidates as possible to try to win them over. To the woman who felt she couldn’t even wear a JNP t-shirt: you suck. You let your candidate down big time. You have no one to blame but yourself for JNP losing.
That being said, the DFL endorsment process is an absolutely terrible system, and the main reason the Republicans have had so much success in Minnesota over the last 20 years.
logasmao,
So you keyboard that your political nose was bloodied in 2003-2004, and you also keyboard that I am quick to engage in name-calling.