Time Magazine writes on the New Yorker cover that satirized the smears against Barack Obama. It’s a good read and it also chimes in on what’s happening here in Minnesota:
Has America lost its sense of humor? If it seems that way, perhaps that’s because dourness is effective politics. In Minnesota, former SNL comic Al Franken hit trouble in his Senate race because of the dark legacy of his past: not drug use or infidelity but a joke he made in 1995 about 60 Minutes’ Andy Rooney being a rapist. His opponent, Norm Coleman, and Coleman’s surrogates jumped on the joke, accusing Franken of thinking rape is funny.
Of course, Franken’s joke was never about rape being funny but about the absurdity of imagining a beloved TV curmudgeon as a rapist. That may not be your cup of tea, but it’s the same kind of dark impulse that inspires gender-conscious comedian Sarah Silverman’s humor: “I was raped by a doctor — which is so bittersweet for a Jewish girl.” Does that mean she hates women too?
Exactly. Every time the Coleman campaign puts out a press release about an old joke, they’re showing their false hope that Minnesotans are not smart enough to understand the difference between satire and what Al Franken believes and fights for. If the Coleman campaign could win on issues, they’d talk about issues instead.
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Aaron,
Your post fails to mention that the Obama campaign had a coronary over the New Yorker cover. The point isn’t that we’ve lost our sense of humor. We’re now having selective outrage depending on who is telling the joke and who is the victim of the joke. For example, you guys are always making comments about McCain’s age. (I think it’s pretty foolish on your part considering the percentage of people who vote age 60 and above versus the percentage of people who vote age 18-25.) But what if Rush Limbaugh started making similar comments about Obama? You would start having vapors over it. It’s all about motive and whose goose is being cooked.
So MN Publius is now defending rape jokes? Thanks Aaron. MN Publius has generally stayed away from defending Franken’s rape jokes, but it’s only taken you a few days to embrace and defend Franken’s humor.
As much as you would like Minnesotans to ignore Franken’s record as a satirist - it is Franken himself who said his record as a satirist is good training for the U.S. Senate:
“‘I’ll tell you what a satirist does,’ [Franken] says. ‘A satirist sees the hypocrisies and absurdities in the world and cuts through the baloney to get to the truth. I think that’s good training for the U.S. Senate. Don’t you?’” (Andrew Romano, “Getting To Know You,” Newsweek, September 17, 2007)
Franken’s rape joke was satire and by Franken’s own statements, being a satirist is good training for the U.S. Senate.
We’ve gotten SO thin skinned that now even things candidates don’t say publicly are subject to our outrage. According to our very own Michael Brodkorb, Franken’s “rape joke” was simply a riff during a brainstorming session.
John McCain, of course, actually told a rape joke, which incidentally wasn’t nearly as funny as Sarah Silverman’s.
Selective outrage indeed.
Do you know what would be awesome? If the electorate was comprised entirely of intelligent and well informed people who vote for candidates based on substantive issues. Unfortunately, enough Minnesotans either don’t understand Franken’s satire or don’t appreciate it that he is losing to a lousy candidate in Norm Coleman in a Democratic year.
Sarah Silverman doesn’t have a future in politics. And neither does Al Franken.
Dan,
Zing!
I tend to agree with you, but I’m trying to keep things positive until November. As bad as Al can be, we’ve got to say goodbye to Norm “W” Coleman.
What’s really funny (but maybe not “ha ha” funny) is that Norm Coleman has for six years been quite effectively unintentionally satirizing the duties of a United States Senator. Getting a man like Al Franken in the Senate, who would take seriously his oath to uphold the Constitution, to have effective oversight over the executive branch, and to stand up for what is right rather than what is simply politically expedient would be a real breath of fresh air.
The overarching problem here is the crowd of operatives who feign offense at every little potentially offensive remark one candidate may have made in a long history of making people laugh really hard.
It sure is a very odd sight to see Michael Brodkorb and other rightwingers standing up for women’s rights in the face of a decades old could-have-been joke suggestion from a candidate.
Let’s talk about the real world here, rather than the realm of satire and robot porn fantasy.
It’s in the real world (actually, on the other side of it from here) where more than a half-dozen servicemen have been killed in their bathrooms on bases in Iraq because of shoddy contracted-out electrical work.
Where was Norm to make sure all the money shoveled to these companies was resulting in topnotch craftsmanship in support of our fighting men and women? It was his responsibility, he dropped the ball, and people have died. That’s the real world. That’s real people’s lives being ended. That’s real harm.
Nice to see that someone out there still appreciates jokes about children and beastilaity too. Most comedians probably thought that well had gone completely dry.
Before Porn-O-Rama Franken, certainly every candidate for national office had given the genre up for dead years ago…now it appears that it is only out of bounds to viable candidates.
Michael: why not defend rape jokes? Everything is subject to satire (see McCain joking about killing Iranians). If it weren’t outrageous, no one would think it’s funny, interesting, or insightful. Subsequently, you are none of these things.
I thought Republicans touted having tough skin. They cry like babies over a joke IDEA that was never told! I guess you better have an extra pair of pants around in case a Dem actual tells a joke.
I also think it’s funny that Brodkrob, a second rate blogger (no offense to the other bloggers out there), thinks he is going to do some intellectual sparring with a Time Magazine Journalist? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off. But seriously.. I’d love to see you have a live conversation with James on this one Michael. Although, he probably doesn’t have too much time. I mean, the guy does real work.
Scrotee’s just mad because he knows his future boyfriend will be a sexbot, as Scrotee’s way too much of a d*ckhead for a real man to put up with an asshole like him. Until these sexbots are available, Scrotee is doomed to a lonely and angry existence. But, hey! At least Scrotee has his vast collection of full-frontal male-nudity to keep him occupied….
Link here, to watch Steven Colbert of The Colbert Report talk about sexbots…..
Jeff,
What’s your source that McCain told a rape joke? Because McCain denies this and nobody ever reported that he did, other than a Tuscon Citizen article that says McCain denies telling the joke and that only a group of women opposing his 1986 campaign can remember the alleged joke.
“…nobody ever reported that he did, other than a Tuscon Citizen article that says McCain denies telling the joke and that only a group of women opposing his 1986 campaign can remember the alleged joke.”
Say, Chris? With your party’s (lack of) standards for verifying claimed information, the Bushy McSame Ape-Rape Joke should be a slam-dunk.
Jeff: I agree with Chris, what’s your source for the McCain joke?
Well, if anyone knows what a “real man” looks for in a boyfriend, it’s you Cheeto Boy.
Say, any word on your toes? You should ask mom to check and see if they’re still there.
Chris and Michael,
I don’t know quite what you want me to give you as proof, other than its being reported. I wasn’t there — I was 2.
Michael, if we suddenly need to personally verify every story we get from legitimate news sources, your site is really going to be hurting for content.
“Michael, if we suddenly need to personally verify every story we get from legitimate news sources, your site is really going to be hurting for content.”
SMACK!
Back, back, bac, back…
Touch ‘em all, Jeff! That one’s outa here!!!
Say, Jeff?
Take a minute to reread the question…heck, take as much time as you need. What we’re looking for is that elusive legitimate news source.
Got one handy?
Touch ‘em all, Cheeto boy!
It was originally cited by the Tuscan Citizen, Swiftee, but you can check it out here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080717/pl_politico/11823
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/15/sources-recall-mccains-jo_n_112955.html
There’s a bit of talk on his sense of humor there, which is legitimately funny at times, and other times just offensive. But personally, I could care less what McCain jokes about. Just because he tells off color jokes doesn’t make him a bad guy. Being a Republican makes him that.
The very first post by Chris nailed it. Politics is so much more about spin these days than actual judgment.
I have been known to read Al Franken books and be rolling on the floor laughing. He is a funny man and a very good writer. There was a fictional story once about him giving a graduation speech at Hartford College (but he had thought the invite was for Harvard) and it is still one of the funniest short essays I’ve read. But my first thought when I heard that he was thinking about running for Senate was “he has said and written some things in the past that are pretty unbecoming of a Senator.”
It should hardly be a surprise that this stuff is coming back to bite him.
Anybody who thinks that anything Al Franken has done in his past is “unbecoming of a Senator” has never read the history of the Senate. It is long on thieves, rapists, drunks and Republicans. As Will Rogers once said, “America doesn’t have a criminal class, that is except Congress.”
“It is long on thieves, rapists, drunks and Republicans.”
Would have been quicker to just write “Democrats and Republicans”, but your point is well taken, amuse.
Jeff: You made the charge that “John McCain, of course, actually told a rape joke…” I know other are reporting that McCain may have told the joke. McCain’s campaign (and therefore McCain) has denied he told the joke. But you have said McCain “actually told a rape joke”. I think it is reasonable to ask for your source. I checked the news wire and other other outlets are using the word “reportedly”, while you used the phrase “actually told a rape joke.”
I think the point there, Micheal, is that Franken did not even reportedly tell a rape joke. It was actually a brainstorming session with SNL which was never aired, and which one would expect to have offensive and often lewd jokes, unlike what one expects to have come out of a US congressman.
Is it not Okay to hold our congressmen to a higher standard than our comedians in that respect? Have you heard any of these lewd jokes float from Franken since he has been endorsed? If you have, please cite all references, as you would have others do.
This whole discussion makes me nervous owing mainly to the subjective nature of the enjoyment of humor — which yes, includes satire. One of the best movies of the late 1980s was Heathers, starring Winona Ryder and Christian Slater. It was a satire — about teenage suicide. Satire when well done is devastatingly funny.
You can be funny, but not if we don’t like your humor. You should be more serious, but not too serious since we like our elected officials to be a little funny. But not so funny that we wince. And not so funny that we think you are stupid. But not so serious that we think you are making fun of us. Gee, guess what? Nobody is going to win this arguement.
The other aspect of the alleged rape joke is that, as noted by Danno, it happened during a writers session. If anyone has been in one of those environments, the creative process can be quite manic. Sometimes, a subject is broached that make those in the room go “oops, not quite that far”, and they back off. Sounds to me that this is precisely what happened. Had the skit actually aired and Franken given credit for it — whole different story.
MRW, it’s not a “whole different story” to the bootlickers; not at all. When they do it, it’s no problem; when Democrats do it, it’s big problemo.
And it’s like that on damn near every (cheney)in’ thing; Kerry drops the (cheney)-bomb when he thinks the mic is off and the bootlickers go ballistic; when Cheney dropped the (cheney)-bomb in the senate, directed at a Senator (“Hey! Senator!! Co (cheney) yourself!!!”) the bootlickers guffaw and snicker.
And that’s just one example. Fortunately, the electorate is now well-aware of republiCon hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy, like republiCon Ron’s. If there’s anyone that should never criticize anyone for paperwork problems, it’s republiCon Ron Carey.
But that doesn’t stop the shameless dicks in the republiCon party from trotting republiCon Ron up to a microphone.
Today’s republiCon Party’s leadership is filled with shameless hypocrites like republiCon Ron and ol’ Smokescreen, Norm Coleman.
Say, MRW?
Are you suggesting that it’s perfectly acceptable to conjure rape scenerios as humor, as long as it’s not put on television?
How do you feel about publishing detailed fantasies about your 12 year old son investigating beastiality…’zat a side splitter as long as it doesn’t hit the airwaves?
I’m new to thes sorts of progressive thought processes, so if you can help me understand the ground rules of Democrat humor, I’d be very appreciative.
Swiftee you lame idiot… if McCain does something it is peachy keen with you… RIGHT? Everything McCain does is correct and honorable… RIGHT Swift-one? If Norm Coleman does anything it is moral and right? Just trying to establish the level of your dedication here.
But if any Democrat does anything anywhere it is immoral, illegal and wrong. Do I have your opinion down? Because there is not another way to take your ramblings.
I actually do hope Norm the Weasel gets reelected. Because in the new Democratic run Senate he is going to turn like the worm he is and then we will get to see Swiftee really outraged at how duped he was by the Weasel. Swiftee you are a lame idiot if you think Norm is going to do anything but swing which ever way the wind blows.
Let me explain, Swiftee. Satire is the process of taking something to such an extreme as to make it ridiculous. Obviously a dunce like you would take these things seriously, because your mind so packed with neo-con talking points can’t comprehend humor that isn’t taken at face value. Which is why a dunce may resort to say, pictures of male genitalia, to catch a laugh. Oh wait, you’ve never had any connection to male genitalia, have you?
In post #11 Chris asked “What’s your source that McCain told a rape joke? Because McCain denies this and nobody ever reported that he did,
other than a Tuscon Citizen article that says McCain denies telling the joke and that only a group of women opposing his 1986 campaign can
remember the alleged joke.”
The Tucson citizen reported it in 1986. In the article two people are said to have heard the joke by McCain. One of these people was an
aide to Congressman Mo Udall, the other was a lawyer. McCain’s spokesperson said that he didn’t recall telling the joke. Not really a denial.
Here’s a link to a pdf file of the story from October 27,1986. http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/tucson_citizen_gorilla_rape_joke.pdf
So, Danno you’re saying that Porn-O-Rama Franken makes up extreme fantasies about his 12 year old son studying beastilaity, and that makes it funny.
Why I think that’s pretty much what everyone has been saying, Danno. Franken and his supporters think his extreme fantasies are humerous, and the rest of the state does not.
BTW, I am indeed connected to male genetalia and it’s connected to me. You got particular reason you’re interested in my genetalia, or are you just asking ‘cause?
Say amuse?
Are you saying now that McCain and Norm Coleman appeared with McGovern and expressed their public approval of rape and beastiality before an audience that had assembled to discuss world hunger?
Well, you can count me as a big dissenting voice on that one, buddy. That’s just wrong.
I’m asking because: 1) the way you cry about a joke suggests your genitalia (that’s how it’s actually spelled, by the by) doesn’t exist, or has reascended into the rest of your body, much like in your infinitesimal days. 2) because your collection of pornographic photos of male genitalia not only suggests the reason why you see the extremes in the jokes as plausible, and therefore serious, but also your hypocrisy. And 3) To demonstrate your complete lack of wit, which I’m finding I need not help you with at all.
I still have yet to see any reference to these Franken jokes anywhere, which is weird, because Swiftee here is bringing it up all over the blog, yet can’t find a single reference! Huh. Would make you think that there aren’t any out there.
“I’m asking because: 1) the way you cry about a joke suggests your genitalia (that’s how it’s actually spelled, by the by) doesn’t exist, or has reascended into the rest of your body, much like in your infinitesimal days”
Oh, heck Danno you should have said so in the first place. If you have doubts about my manhood, just ask your wife when you get home!
BTW, Danno. My collection of pornographic pictures are nothing more than a deep, residing wish by Cheeto Boy. He’s got his hopes up, but again as your wife can attest, Swiftee don’t swing that way!
Swiftee, I agree 100%,
Continue to try to win the hearts and minds of the Minnesota Democrats so well. They now know that there is hope for America, because you welcome them with a handshake and an agreement that, although we have differences in opinion, we still all need to continue to lead America in a conservative direction.
Great Job!
Two Putz,
I was actually tickled pink when Cheney told Senator Leahy to go F-himself. Leahy is about as pompus and pious as you are and when he slapped Cheney in the back and pretended to be his buddy, Cheney replied in kind. If I were Cheney, I’d have said the same thing. Leahy, also known as Leaky Leahy or Senator Depends, likes to point the finger at everyone else but was forced to resign as Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee for leaking clasified information to a reporter.
Chris I agree 100%,
Cheney is the best Vice President our country has ever had.
great Job!
I am reminded of a corporate event I was at a number of years ago, when the CEO of a rather large multi-national corporation told a joke so offensive and foul, I cringed. This gentleman was ridiculously good at his job and his telling this joke in no way, cast any doubts about his ability to run the company. On the other hand, Saint Reagan waged a proxy war in Central America, turning the United States into a state sponsor of terrorism. His actions were directly responsible for the rape, torture and murder of more then 300,000 innocent men, women and children. Current President Bush waged war on a country that posed no threat to the United States and had taken no action against the United States. His actions are directly responsible for the rape, torture and murder of more then a million innocent men, women and children. Norm Coleman aided and abetted this president at every step along the way. When Coleman was chairman of the Senate committee in charge of over site of war profiteers, Norm did nothing. US service people died, directly as a result of his negligence. All this carrying on about Franken’s work in the past is obviously distraction and smear. Little Mikey has no problem with Franken’s humor, it’s his plan for the future Little Mikey is concerned about. More specifically, the part of the plan that would oust Little Mikey’s paymaster Norm, out of office. Here’s an idea, let’s talk about Norm’s plan for the economy. Let’s talk about Norm’s plan for health care. Let’s talk about Norm’s plan for Iraq. Of course, Little Mikey doesn’t want to do that because it’s painfully obvious that Norm’s plan is to do nothing on all those counts. His ideas are so tied to the present administration, he can’t possibly contend that he is in any way trying to offer new and effective solutions to these problems. Vote for Norm and you’re voting for more of the same flawed and sociopathic thinking that got us into the present mess we’re in today.
Richard,
Only in your world is fighting against communist oppression considered terrorism. I hope Al Franken runs on the platform you’re espousing. Even liberal Minnesota would run like hell away from that.
So what you’re saying Chris, is that the rape, torture and murder of innocents is okay as long as the stated goal of the aforementioned rape, torture and murder is done in the name of saving them from communist oppression. Did I get that right or is there some aspect of you’re psychopathic universe that I’m missing?
Richard, in the RightWingO’Verse, the rape and murder of Catholic Nuns is patriotic, and ignoring the forced prostitution and forced abortion in American
sweatshopser, ‘scuse me, “factories” is good business.GOPers like Chris didn’t bat an eye at Jeff GannonGate, either.
For an amusing look at things that bootlickers like Chris ignore, because their side does it, here’s a look back at Dino Ironbody and the $ecret$ of New Journali$m $ucce$$, GreedOverPrincples style.
Everybody knows Jeff Gannon and Minnesota Republican leader Swiftee…oops I mean Minnesota Republican leader Michael B. Brodkorb have nothing in common.
Michael B. Brodkorb is from Minnesota.
http://www.bushcommission.org/Findings/Final%20Verdict.pdf
It’s not satire but it’ll sure be funny watching the extreme right wing dealing with it. Bush will, hopefully, be standing in front of a world court within a couple of years on charges of War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
Well, there’s plenty of time to talk about throwing the criminals in jail, but the thread subject is satire - which is why I posted the Dino Ironbody link.
And here’s another good link (demonstrating the idiocy o’ Chris, Scrotee, and the rest of the bootlickers), This Modern World’s look at “Republicans Believe The Darndest Things”
Bushy McSame recently had an “issue” with panel #5….
Richard and Two Putz,
It’s great to know you think the worst of your country. If you want to throw real criminals in jail, why don’t you start with Bill Clinton. After all, he was involved in a cocaine smuggling ring as well as had a role in the murder of Vince Foster. It’s all been documented — just like your sources have been documented. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2917/clinton.html