From a Franken press release today:
A college diploma is more than a dream for Minnesota families - it’s practically a requirement for middle-class prosperity. But with George W. Bush in the White House and Norm Coleman in the Senate, that prosperity has slipped out of reach for Minnesota’s middle class. My tuition tax cut will bring college within reach for 10 million students nationwide. And it will take a step towards restoring America’s middle-class promise: that hard work can bring prosperity to your family.
More on Franken’s proposal at alfranken.com.
The average student loan debt in Minnesota jumped over $6K during the first three years of Coleman and is the 5th in the nation. Coleman’s continually voted against students, such as letting tuition tax deduction expire, opposing $4.9 billion for Pell grants.
MPR has the full audio of Franken’s news conference where he unveiled the proposal.
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I’ll tell you something I like about Al Franken. I like the fact he is putting proposals and ideas out there. I might disagree with many of them, or feel many of them cannot honestly be paid for the way his staff thinking, but I like that.
Still, I can’t vote for him because I think having a Democrat supermajority in the Senate would be disastrous for future generations.
One senator Franken does not a supermajority make. In fact, if all the expected seats turn, plus Wellstone’s seat, we will still not have a supermajority. Also, your one vote won’t turn the trick. DO IT!
This $5000 is not a TAX CUT. This is a TAX CREDIT. A credit is PAYMENT made to someone for doing something the government wants. It is paid for by others. If they owed no taxes, then they would get a $5000 check. Again, this is not a cut - it is a PAYMENT/CREDIT .
I think it is great that more people may go to college. But I want to make darn sure that the people getting these payments do not own two 50” LCD TVs,an Ipod, 200 CDs, more than two cars, brand label clothes, or lives in a house greater than 1500 sq ft. Becuase, you see, if they didn’t have these things, they could pay for college by themselves, which is the real American way.
Franken is playing the anti-wealth card, and I believe it is disgusting.
So apparently middle class is now any family making under $200,000 a year? Franken’s site also never says how much more per student the bogus $5000 claim really. The small print says his proposal in part groups together existing credits. So what is the real number $4500, $3000, $25? I suppose why bother when a $5000 headline sounds so nice.
KH,
It is better than McCain who says middle class is anyone making under 5 million!!
Really?
Why is it that redistribution of wealth to the top 1% is always defended by people like you, but when someone tries to protect working families it is called communism? This country was strongest when there was a strong middle class. We hae had 30 years of Reganomics redistribution to the top. It is time to keep the wealth fairly where it belongs, instead of enriching a few by crushing labor.
What Franken is proposing is technically a credit, but if you qualify for the tax credit, your taxes will be cut. There is an education tax credit now, and what Franken appears to be proposing is to increase the amount of the credit and to raise the income eligibility levels.
And a college student can’t own an Ipod?
Why would you not want more engineers, scientists, writers, doctors and thinkers? Any method to get more and more people to go to college is certainly a smart move for any country trying to maintain a technological edge. The only thing this country has to create wealth and future prosperity is our people. Educated people do that better than pissed off intelligent people working as the Assistant Manager of a gas station. How is it that Republicans always insist upon eating the seed corn of short term cheapness rather than long term success?
@ Really.
I don’t know a single college aged student that owns half of that. Sure maybe an iPod, and old beater, a large collection of CD’s accumulated since they were 10 maybe… but 50” TV’s, multiple cars and penthouses certainly not.
What do you think college kids live like these days? The only people who would have all you describe in all probability would be getting their school (and toys) bought and paid for by their wealthy parents, and as such wouldn’t qualify for the credit to begin with.
Only 64% of minnesota graduates enroll in college. That number needs to be increased, and this is one way of doing that.
How is this different, other than the dollar amount, from the Lifetime Learning Credit from the feds? Is the L.L.C. being phased out next year?
Every single kid in America who wants to go to further education already has the ability to do it. What’s this love fest of trying to pay kids to go and buy down the cost they bear? Between existing loans, grants, credits and scholarships, there is not a single person who couldn’t figure out a way to go to some sort of higher ed school. Oh, and then there’s this thing called work. Me, my brothers and my friends worked their way through school. It may have taken some of them 10 and 12 years to finish, but that was the commitment they made when they applied the basic risk/reward analysis to it.
Buying down the price the student pays for the education will not do anything to get more kids to go and it certainly will not lower the cost of education. Getting the direct government subsidies out of the way and putting the responsbility on students to demand their money’s worth is the only thing that will ultimately bring down the cost, improve the quality and infuse real competition in a corrupt industry that currently robs the middle class, thanks to government intervention. this backward thinking of government money makeing higher ed more affordable is as dumb as believing the government can take over health care and improve quality while lowering the cost of it. When the government steps in to guarantee the bills get paid, watch out, it’s cart blanc to jack the price up and watch the money roll in, compliments of the stupid taxpayers who think they are getting value for their dollars.
Where there is a will, there is a way. I’d just a soon let the ones who have the will to figure it out get to be the ones who get to go to school.
Common I think you need to change your screen name… mostly because it doesn’t fit your opinions.
1. Why do you think that the percentage of the population with a higher education degree, as a percentage of the population, has not kept up with the rise of the total population?
2. What benefit accrues to the United States by making a student spend multiple years of their life obtaining a 4 year degree because of their parents economic status? And sorry but your perceived “character building” is not a countrywide benefit.
3. There is a direct correlation between educational attainment and income in the United States. Why do you insist that the government should NOT do everything in its’ powers to increase the GNP of our country?
4. There is absolutely no facts or even any proven theory that “putting the responsbility on students to demand their money’s worth is the only thing that will ultimately bring down the cost, improve the quality and infuse real competition in a corrupt industry that currently robs the middle class.” None. Nada. Zippo.
Saying things doesn’t make them so… prove your assertion without the silly bias of calling the complete education system, private and public, corrupt.
May I suggest you change your screen name to Blind Libertarian without a shred of Common Sense?
CSR, your porch rant of what it was like in your day and by God, if you had a nickel and some gumption you could go to school and be an astronaut, was entertaining but sadly in this day and age young people are looking at, not just some debt but crushing debt. Before they’re done, the average student graduates with something like 60K in debt. That’s for an undergraduate degree, graduate school you can tack on another 30K. Too many students are looking at this and saying it isn’t worth it. We graduating less and less engineers and scientists. The very folks that made this country the most innovative and inventive country on the planet.
1. Why do you think that the percentage of the population with a higher education degree, as a percentage of the population, has not kept up with the rise of the total population?
Answer: It has. That figure of 64% was 45% in 1990 and 59% in 2000.
2. What benefit accrues to the United States by making a student spend multiple years of their life obtaining a 4 year degree because of their parents economic status?
Answer: None. I’d rather have people in the workforce in 4 years. We may agree.
3. There is a direct correlation between educational attainment and income in the United States. Why do you insist that the government should NOT do everything in its’ powers to increase the GNP of our country?
Answer: Does it have to be Government? Maybe the next Bill Gates can set up a private foundation to do this. A Government that can send everyone to college could someday tell everyone at age 10 what occupation they should have for life. I disagree with Plato on that theory.
To be clear, I’d much rather pay $100 million for people to go to college than bay $ 100 million to support them on social programs for their lives. No question. The issue is this: Does the $5,000 per person simply make taxpayers foot the bill for tuition that would have been paid anyway? What can we do to make sure that the kids who really ought to go to college, but can’t, can finally go?
I doubt $5,000 of tuition is what keeps a college-caliber kid from going to school.
The idea of crushing debt is what kept my youngest from starting college two years ago. He saw what his brother was going through and decided against college for the moment. Now, lest you assume this lad wasn’t cut out for college and would be better off stocking selves at the neighborhood 711, he scored in the top 10% in English, Social Studies, and Math. 5,000 would definately get him started. Meanwhile, his brother just graduated the U of MN. This semester he was pulling 21 credits and working 35 to 40 hours a week. This semesters GPA was 3.5 something.
Dan, where you get those figures from is beyond me… even including 2 year degrees you don’t get those numbers…
Highest Level of Educational Attainment of U.S. Population, 2005
Associate’s degree 8.6%
Bachelor’s degree 18.1%
Master’s degree 6.8%
Doctoral degree 1.2%
Total…. 34.7% of Americans in 2005 had a “Higher Education Degree”
NOTE: Persons 25 years and older (189 million).
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, March 2005.
And if you think “Maybe the next Bill Gates can set up a private foundation for this” then I suggest that the Tooth Fairy might also be depended upon to create more college graduates too. This program is exactly WHY we have a government… to promote policies beneficial to the whole country.
Like I say, Republicans are so stupidly short sighted they want to eat the seed corn.
Let’s just say that if the Democrats weren’t too aloof to see that they waste 3 kernels of the seed corn for every 1 that makes it in to the ground, I’d be a little more interested in listening to their ideas.
DantheMan, I agree 100%,
Everybody knows when the Republicans spend money, like for example, in Iraq, every dollar is spent wisely, and is accounted for. Also, there is nothing irresponsible about no bid contracts when spending taxpayer money on anything we Republicans think is important.
It is common knowledge that the “stories” about the 9 Billion or so missing dollars in Iraq are only because of the Liberal media. The “pallets full of cash” stories are all lies because only Liberals talked about it.
There are some who might think it is irresponsible when, using taxpayer money, a contractor subcontracts a subcontractor who subcontracts a subcontractor who subcontracts a subcontractor, money being skimmed off the top multiple times. These people don’t understand that this is just good business, and that’s why Wall Street and the economy is so strong. That’s called “the free market”.
People who think this behavior is irresponsible just hate wealthy people and success, that’s the only explanation that makes any sense.
Great Job Minnesota Republican blogger DantheMan
As someone who works in higher ed, I would rather see students only have to work 20 hours or fewer and really be able to learn, get their money’s worth, and maximize their educational experience, rather than have the bragging rights that come from working 40 hours a week (by gum! I did it myself!), not being able to study ordo their best. I’d like to see them really get the education they are paying for. I see exhausted students who are always sick because they are killing themselves working and trying to take a full load of classes, and the quality of their work is barely adequate. Cynicism aside, is the point of going to college to put in the seat time and get the degree, or to learn as much as possible, including skills of writing and thinking that will be much more valuable in the work world than the degree itself?
The latter.