This debate was a lot of fun.
Before it all started, people were lining up well more than two hours before doors opened. About a half hour before doors opened, the Coleman campaign had a chartered bus that dropped off a group of people with signs and prepared cheers to chant at the people who were in line. The people in line, by the way, were by far mostly Franken supporters: at least 90%. Some Coleman supporters were escorted by a Coleman volunteer or staffer to join other Coleman supporters in the front of the line. A few Coleman supporters chanted “four more years!” until they heard everyone laughing at them. “It’s six years,” a Franken button-wearer chimed. The busload of Coleman supporters also had huge letters that spelled out “NORM” and the “N” and the “O” wandered off to another side and everyone in line started laughing and chanting “NO! NO! No, Norm!” This group then gathered near the door at the front of the line then charged the doors when they opened, cutting off everyone who was waiting for an hour and a half. It was shameless, arrogant and childish. Everyone in line was upset at first, but then it turned into jokes about how this is the kind of campaign Coleman’s running. I took photos and I’ll post about it if I have extra time — it was a pathetic, dirty play by Team Coleman.
As a result, for the most part Coleman supporters were in the middle section and Franken supporters were the rest of the auditorium. I saw about four Barkley supporters total. Actually, there were two anti-Barkley protesters in Tyvek suits and face masks handing out literature about Barkley’s negative lobbyist past.
The debates themselves were easy to sum up: Barkley was really all over the place, Coleman was a very smooth but lied repeatedly and Franken was the calmest and in my opinion, won the debate.
Barkley was really nuts. At first, he was needing questions repeated, got confused easily and while he wanted to talk about energy issues, when an opportunity came to him to speak for another minute on energy issues he said he said everything he wanted to say and forfeited his time. Franken interjected with a smile that he’d take that extra minute to talk more about energy. Barkley proved he is by no means a serious candidate by sounding unprepared and not really understanding the issues he was talking about. I’d write more on this now but it’s worth its own post.
Coleman started by saying he’s angry and that all three candidates were angry. Wasn’t Coleman’s strategy trying to pin Franken as the “angry” one? Throughout the debate, Barkley was actually the one that sounded angry (and mean, for that matter). But now that Coleman declared it, we now have “Angry Norm” and “Angry Dean” to deal with.
Coleman said he was opposed to the first bailout plan when he actually wasn’t. He charged that Franken doesn’t support drilling. Coleman lied by saying that both Franken and Barkley would cut off funding for our troops. He tried to champion funding for higher education when he voted against them. These lies were a bit of a mess in regards to Franken needing to take time away and retort and point out some of these falsehoods. Perhaps it was a Coleman strategy but I think it really played into Franken’s favor.
One of the things I found most interesting though was Coleman’s demeanor. There were many times where Coleman, sitting directly to Franken’s right, would turn and look right at him while he was speaking, even if his face was a foot away from Franken’s as if he was staring him down. When he wasn’t doing that, Coleman continually seemed nervous.
Here was my favorite part of the debate, as recorded by The UpTake: It’s about negative ads and Franken and Coleman talk about what their ads are about. Barkley tries to say the ads are helping him (although he doesn’t mention that his first radio ads were also negative). Also watch how nervous Coleman is:
Overall, a great debate and yes, I know I might be biased, but in my best judgement Franken really did win this one hands down. I can’t wait for the next four. You can watch the entire debate courtesy of The UpTake.
UPDATE: MPR’s Mark Zdechlik has a fantastic recap of the debate and The UpTake posted individual videos of all the segments of the debate:
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I just got back from the debate in Rochester. The details by Aaron are completely and utterly and factually wrong. The line was heavily Franken, but was not 90% Franken. I played cards for about two hours in the front of the line with Franken eople, and we agreed to a significantly lower advantage for the Franken team, about 75%.
“This group then gathered near the door at the front of the line then charged the doors when they opened, cutting off everyone who was waiting for an hour and a half.”
Aaron, this is where I laugh. Both campaigns had unlimited guaran teed tickets to supporters. All of these Coleman supporters ALREADY HAD TICKETS. None of them cut in line. Only a select few of us, who arrived before 3:30 and waited 3 hours line, not 1.5 hours, actually waited for tickets.
“everyone laughing at them” … “everyone in line started laughing and chanting”
If by everyone you mean about 5 people, then you are technically being honest here.
“As a result, for the most part Coleman supporters were in the middle section”
We were in the middle section because we were there very early in the day. The Norm crew from Winona was there very early, and some of us from the Cities were there 3 hours before tickets were handed out.
As for who won the debate, Al was caught in a number of lies (claiming Norm voting against a port security bill that he co-authored, for example). Dean Barkley far and away won the debate. I talked to people with Franken shirts who told be after the debate they wore the wrong shirt (referencing Barkley). Some of those who went in supporting Franken left considering Barkley. Al seemed a bit unprepared, so I would argue Norm slightly edged him out, but Barkley won the debate far and away tonight.
Norm looks awful shifty, Barkley looks awful. Wish I had time to watch the whole thing tonight. This race is getting really good, did anyone read the diaries at Kos?
I’m a Franken supporter.
I hate to break it to everyone, but Franken did awful. He just seemed very tired. Nothing but talking points and attacks on Coleman.
Regardless, Coleman will be re-elected. This election is very similar to the 2002 and 2006 gov races where you have a third-party candidate running a vanity campaign. Granted, Barkley makes about a thousand times more sense than either of the other two clowns, but his presence will cause Norm to win. I really appreciated Barkley’s comment about looking at military spending.
Franken had no energy. He had no response for when Barkley asked how Franken would pay for the college tax credits. The standard reply would be that he’d raise taxes on the rich, but he never said it.
Disco:
“I’m a Franken supporter.”
Pfffft, Yeah, right.
I heard the thing. I recorded it.
It will be re-broadcast at midday on NPR if anyone missed it.
The attack on Franken is trolling, I’m afraid. As a listen will prove.
Barkley sounded very good. He has the luxury of pulling out all the stops, because he has no viable chance.
He’s hoping to get in on being attacked by Normy, I’d bet. Because it’ll get him free air time he cannot otherwise afford.
Normy did his “knit brow” breaking voice of concern. As though he hasn’t BEEN in congress all this time.
Who the hell is he running against? Some guy named “Coleman!!!”
He pulled the angry man crap late in the debate - but he STARTED the debate by saying “he was angry too!”
So are we supposed to all be Rain Men & forget what he said less than an hour before?
The “sean2” supposition that Al got “caught” in lies - has no basis in fact. Unless you believe COLEMAN!
Anyone who’s followed the articles in the paper & attack ads by Coleman, knows that you have to count your fingers
after shaking hands with Normy.
Let’s not forget he’s applying for the position of the head of the Republican Dirty Tricks Squad
(Check it out yourself. I think Mark Heaney covered it on the radio recently).
Al sounded good. He was a little muted, except for a quip when Barkley ceded his time on a topic that was overworked -
and Al asked if he could have the time Dean gave up to talk on the energy issue.
Franken made a case & introduced himself to people who only know him by the attack ads put out by Coleman & his scummy surrogates.
Recent poll numbers are heavily in favor of Franken. That says that Norm needs to keep his filthy attacks up - because Minnesota
wants substance, not the manure Coleman is shoveling.
Rove tactics doesn’t resonate so well in Minnesota.
Hey, Norm.
What’s with all the name-dropping?
Are you afraid to stand on actually your own record?
That you have to invoke the name of all the other people in the room for faux credibility?
I suppose we can assume that at some future date - he’ll being invoke Barkley & Franken too!?
If we start talking about the people Normy knows, or was in the room with - why did he never mention Ted Stevens?
Or the junkets, hobnobbing with lobbyists, etc? Or the Cheney interference during the election when he was losing to Paul Wellstone?
Running away from his party is a curious thing, NOW. When he’s been walking in lockstep.
WHERE are all these investigations he COULD have & SHOULD have done? Why have secret fundraisers with Bush flying in to town?
Was that Normy’s evil twin?
There was indeed a chum ball of norm “supporters” including Dr. Brian Davis trolling about the door while most people, about 650, waited in line. When the doors opened this group slipped in ahead of the majority of people who had waited in line for hours. Rules for republicans: benefit yourselves, because rules don’t apply to you. And yes…this group got shouted to oblivion.
Disco,
You are a supporter of Al, as you said. You also stated that Barkley makes more sense than the other “clowns”.
Really, you support clowns? You must be silly then?
Thanks, Alec
Al Franken did just fine - he was calm and collected and scored his points. Dean Barkley was a little agitated, but did just fine and scored his points. Both of ‘em pounded Norm mercilessly. And that’s good; ol’ Smokescreen’s earned it.
I, too, was amazed when Coleman claimed he was angry; that’s been one of his talking points when ripping Al - “Angry Al”, that is.
Norm was on the defensive, and I clearly heard it. He got pummelled.
The question is: can Barkley peel enough votes away to win? I don’t think so, but I think Barkley peels enough away to finish a close second, with ol’ Smokescreen looking for a new job in January.
Who knows? Maybe Norm’s pal Jeff “Landlord” Larson will give him a job; Norm sure wouldn’t have far to commute ……
It strikes me that the missing element in New York Norm’s campaign is the Republican Party. I think it is foolish for him to run away from the Republican Party at this juncture. Since Obama is trouncing McCain and his nasty pitbull in Minnesota, don’t you think an appeal to independents and Republicans to “balance” the “Liberal” power would strike a fair minded tone with Minnesotans? Build on all the scary McCain commercials predicting dire tax raises and the end of the world as we know it… Hell, Norm stands for nothing right now without the Republican Party. Don’t mean to be too helpful here but sheesh that campaign will continue on its’ Kennedy-like catastrophe direction any way you look at it. Check out his latest ad where the only person he can get support from is like 7 years old.
An old advertising maxim is that someone who doesn’t like a product will always do a better job of selling it because they will really think of reasons to buy. The guy who loves the product assumes everybody does… and in a nutshell there is the problem with the Dallas Agency handling New York Norm’s campaign.
Don’t underestimate Barkley. The more I watch these debates the more I like him. He doesn’t knock my socks off, but either do Franken or Coleman.
Plus, I feel that an Independent Senator in DC can get alot more done than an Independent Congressman could. Being 1 of 100 votes counts all the time.
Barkley will be pulling some votes from both sides of the aisle.
“There was indeed a chum ball of norm “supporters” including Dr. Brian Davis trolling about the door while most people, about 650, waited in line. When the doors opened this group slipped in ahead of the majority of people who had waited in line for hours. Rules for republicans: benefit yourselves, because rules don’t apply to you.”
You don’t understand the ticket process. Each campaign had virtually unlimited tickets, guaranteed to supporters who they had on a list. In line, I asked to see, and did see, the list for both the Franken and Coleman campaigns. These people were guaranteed tickets - did not have to wait in line to get them. They did not cut in line — they were proceeding ahead of the ticket line into the line to get into the gymnasium for the event.
I listened to part of the debate and watched part of it. It’s interesting what a difference it makes when you see the body language along with hearing the voices. I thought Franken kept an even tone because he knows he’s been accused of being “angry Al” and that his calm voice and demeanor were in contrast to that negative image. He also spoke clearly and to the point. Coleman tried to have it both ways: to say that he’d been an effective actor in Congress but to distance himself from the REpublican record and policies. But he can’t claim to have been against the Republican agenda he supported almost all the time he has been in office. Republicans trying to run as “outsiders” are making a losing case. Barkley channeled the anger a lot of us feel, and articulated the anger about the war and the bailout the most clearly, but when it came to details about policies, he was contradictory.
Coleman’s body language was distracting. he looked like he was going to jump out of his skin. Franken may have sounded heavier than he usually does, but he also looked more collected and focused. His joke when Barkley gave up his time made him sound relaxed to me.
Overall, I enjoyed hearing a debate that was not as tightly scripted as the presidential and vice-presidential debates have been. But I also hear Norm conclude with his “values” which sounded just like the failed policies of the last 8 years, so I think that’s going to hurt him with those who want a change. Whether or not Barkley will siphon votes from Franken or Coleman, I don’t know, but he sounded petulant and sneering most of the time.
I understand well, Sean2. Franken supporters had a guaranteed tickets as well, but we weren’t crowded up at the door, ready to rush ahead of the 650 people waiting in line.
I enjoyed listening to, and watching the debate. I especially enjoyed angry Norm.
Did anyone noticed how well behaved ther audience was??? The clapping at the end was for Al after his closing statement. He did bring up vaslid points about Norm’s voting record.
Al did very well last night. If Norm was squirming, this is only the beginning. Al was warming up. Knowing Alo, he will be saving the best stuff for last. Ted Stevens and Norm’s “fishing trips” will be brought up.
AS for the getting ahead of those of us who were in line since 4pm, the Coleman supporters rushed to the doors once they opened. Many were shouting, “Go to the back of the line!” If they already had tickets, they would have gotten in anyway. They may have not gotten the best view, but thewy would have gotten in. THat’s what peeved me off.
I couldn’t help but see that Barkley was the only one trying to fix our problems. Franken and Coleman seemed more obsessed with destroying the other guy.
I’m thinking I’m going to vote for Barkley and I bet I’m not the only one.
Al is subdued and has no energy because he knows what all other Minnesotans know, the Strib poll is dead wrong and he is losing! To the Franken supporters, where was Al concise during the debate about what kind of a Senator he would be? He was all over the place and sounded very nervous and unsure of himself.
gopgal,
If theres one thing the readers of MN Publius have learned, it is that Minnesota Republican bloggers of the troll variety, such as yourself, only comment with a spin that benefits Republicans, insults and ridicules Democrats, and are not really honest about anything.
You, gopgal, painted yourself with that brush a long time ago. Now you’re stuck wearing it.
Interesting piece and comments.
Once again, there’s such a huge difference between deciding on a few minutes’ impression versus years of listening to Al Franken’s radio show.
There is no way to sooth apprehensions based on polaroids, but Al has attributes that anyone would vote for and would wish for in a Senator.
He also is not condescending, bullying, or dishonest by nature.
There’s my spin based on years of following Al, reading his books, etc.
(.. might mention that Franken’s books are well referenced, unlike some other factor-ish books)
Al’s closing was tremendous.
I WILL vote for Al Franken no matter what. My post was most certainly not a troll. But I’ve not been impressed his campaign. I think Normie’s viscous attack ads really caused Franken to mute himself. The last thing he wanted was to reinforce the message of those ads.
I just didn’t sense any energy with Franken. He didn’t appear confident or even happy to be there. He didn’t talk much about his own plans; rather, he attacked Coleman’s votes most of the time.
I’m actually hoping most people DON’T see this debate. It didn’t reflect well on Franken.
Disco-
Kindly shut it. Your concern is duly noted.