Talk about feeding the narrative.
UPDATE: Snap polls and focus groups say Obama won…handily:
CNN National Poll: Who do you believe won the debate?
Obama: 54
McCain: 30
CBS News Poll: Undecided voters
Obama: 39
McCain: 27
Focus groups on CNN, Fox and MSNBC all say Obama won (on MSNBC it was a 60-40 split)
UPDATE 2: This could be a big deal, especially after the “that one” moment and the lack of eye contact. McCain turned down a handshake offered by Obama:
hi, ..thankfully, that’s over. I have only few observations: Obama stuck to fact, McCain went for the same distortions. I thought Obama needs to offer some economy and brevity in his responses and worked hard. McCain sounded half-there. no surprises.
My friends, I was just trying to distinguish ‘That One’ from the rest of you, my friends.
“That one” — really? really?? and no handshake? what a hateful old man.
O…M…G.
What an angry old man
In 2000 I would have voted for McCain. But in 2008? What an ass.
With the tsunami coming, hope W holds an election…
The two most commented words heard around the country during a debate.
Obama/Biden: 3
McCain/Palin: 0
Sounds more like a “Judas” meme he’s planting for the base…
or that “Antichrist” thing, than racial. Not very “christian” of McCain.
Or just plain, naked condescension.
But what was all this lurking? Why couldn’t McCain sit still?
At first I thought it was a tactic to draw attention away from Obama, but it started looking like
maybe he should have gone before the debate!!!
Somebody call an usher & help him find his seat!
For all the slogans & memes McCain tried to instill, most fell flat. They were over-used to bad effect.
They will have to make up new ones to ply the crowd. So little time to establish any “hook” left.
Judging from the debate crowd…
I’d say it was higher than 60-40 in that room.
I watched it on one of those “pundit” shows. Who talked over post-debate scenes for a long time afterward.
McCain pulled a fairly quick exit. Who knows, tired or ill are possibilities. Can’t read TOO much in.
But Obama really worked the room. The reaction & number of people who looked as though thy had become fans
was pretty striking. A lot of photos. A bunch had those funky disposable cameras.
Another CLEAR loss for McCain. He came off as ill-informed, condescending, and angry. I expect a 2% jump in national polls for Obama as well as closing the gap in states like Indiana, and opening up wider leads in Florida, Colorado, and other swingy states.
Did George Bush shake Osama Bin Ladens hands after 9-11?
“that one” comment inoffensive and no big deal to me. Hand shake clip was just weird, almost like planned slight. I think effect of last night debate is Mccain is starting to lose the vote of some conservatives with more socialist proposals like plan to help people keep their homes. Bob Barr may pick up some votes.
This is pretty interesting reading comments of left wingers. I, too, thought that Obama “won” the debate in terms of style, hands-down. But my vote will go to the candidate who I think will make the best decisions, and once again, based upon the answers each candidate gave, I would still choose McCain.
Obama gave an answer that probably resonates with more Americans on healthcare. Obama gets the definate edge on that one, even though I think the way he wants to improve healthcare will create more issues for future generations in terms of how to pay for it, and has the potential to completely explode into something massive much like what happened in Massachusetts. That is one example of how he can give a better sounding answer, but one whose content I believe is wrong.
If I had ever entertained a thought of voting for Obama, it was shot down when he attempted to answer a very clear, direct questions on entitlements, specifically social security and medicare. His answer focused on getting more revenue. It is not a revenue problem it is a cost problem. Unless we intend to tax our children at 40-50% to fund federal government operations (plus more for state), then we need to make fundamental changes to those programs now.
Obama is smart enough to know that if he doesn’t answer that question, he loses fewer votes from the general person watching at home than he does from a guy like me who is disappointed that he evaded the question. Brilliant political calculation by a guy who is as cautious and calculated a politican as we have seen in some time.
Mike-
Were Bush and UBL colleagues in the senate?
Thanks for the strawman, though. Very thoughtful commentary you’ve provided here.
To answer your question: Bush did fly all of UBL’s family out of the US on a day when no American citizen could fly.
Oh snap Lojasmo. Don’t waste your breath on the trolls! McCain looked and sounded really, really bad, and just made Obama, who I think had a mediocre debate, look that much better. Repugnants at home had to be asking themselves, is this actually our candidate? I wish Sarah would have been standing with him to give the full effect. Last night was priceless, and Jon McCain looks laughably bad, and worse every day. He would be an absolute disaster as a president, maybe even worse than GWB. Last night was a real eye opener for independents.
OBL’s family got a free ride from Bush on Mike’s tax dollar. O the irony!
Bush didn’t shake OBL’s hand, but he did just about everything else for him. Instead of finishing him off in Afghanistan with the support of the world behind us, Bush invaded Iraq and let OBL off the hook. Bush is the best friend OBL has ever had.
DtM:
Despite your protestations, most folks here know you would never vote for a democrat anyway. I sure hope you’re independently wealthy by the time you’re 62. Lord knows you wouldn’t want to be the beneificiary of our country’s call to promote the common good.
The funniest thing is how McCain talks about how he would reach across the aisle and work with Democrats, and then refers to Obama as “that one” and won’t shake his hand. As if there was any doubt at this point anyway, but McCain showed just what a lying sack of crap he really is last night.
“Despite your protestations, most folks here know you would never vote for a democrat anyway. I sure hope you’re independently wealthy by the time you’re 62. Lord knows you wouldn’t want to be the beneificiary of our country’s call to promote the common good.”
lojasmo -
A golden opportunity came up for both candidates last night, when someone asked “what would you ask people to sacrifice”. Obama said volunteer more. McCain said we may need a spending freeze.
What about entitlements? Your question is poignant, lojasmo. You know what? I plan to be independently wealthy, or at least well off enough to fund my retirement. And I believe that because of it, I should have a means test that reduces or eliminates my social security and medicare benefits because of it. Oh, and if there is any small medicare at that time, don’t have it kick in until I’m 70 or 75. That is fine.
I am willing to pay the majority of the tax burden today as a high wageearner, and I am willing for me to be the guy who doesn’t get the social security or medicare money that I will have paid tens or hundreds of thousands into (at a high rate) for my entire career. I’ll raise my hand and be the first to sign up.
So, lojasmo, what are you willing to sacrifice?
“Despite your protestations, most folks here know you would never vote for a democrat anyway.”
I’ve voted for 2 Democrats in the past decade. Three if you count Tim Penny.
DtM:
I am willing to pay higher taxes to promote the common good, as allowed by the constitution. In fact, I welcome higher taxes. I am voting for the candidate who I believe will be the best for our nation, despite the fact that I personally will benefit less under Obama’s tax plan.
And despite your statements, I suspect you’ll be suckling at the public teat as soon as you are humanly able.
lojasmo uses the oldest and dumbest argument espoused by those who support government run programs. The one that tries to paint those who oppose the programs hypocrites if they even consider using any of the resulting benefits.
Unfortunately for people like lojasmo it is the same logic as forcing somebody to donate their car to an organization that provides transportation to the general public, even though that person does not want to do so. Then calling the car’s original owner a hypocrite for needing to use the program for transportation, in order to drive the car they paid for. Of course if you hadn’t taken their car to begin with they might not have needed help getting around.
Anybody that pays taxes has the moral right to use any of the programs it provides while advocating for those programs to be eliminated. The same as anybody who pays taxes has the right to complain about the war despite their taxes being the resource used to wage that war. Taxes are taken involuntarily, being against some or all of that taking does not make those who try to recover part of what was taken hypocrites.
And lojasmo, you can always send in more money to the state than you are forced to. Do you do that or do you only welcome higher taxes if you can force those who do not agree with you to participate?
“And despite your statements, I suspect you’ll be suckling at the public teat as soon as you are humanly able.”
I’m sorry you said that. Is that the way you’re wired? To assume that everyone has a motive of getting what they can from Government? That is what is wrong with our country, not a perk of living here.
With a worldview like that, I’m not surprised that you have such a difficult time carrying on a meaningful dialogue with someone who might disagree with you.
Wow just Wow… the two resident Republican tax whiners spout nonsense again. All you have to do is look at the Republican platform to see the Greed Over Principles Party is more than happy to feed at the government trough with no-bid contracts and crony capitalism, yet insist they are fiscally responsible because they want to keep Grandma from getting her medicines or some poor kid from getting through college. What an impossible bunch of idiots… willing to waste a Billion tax dollars a week in Iraq but incensed when tax dollars go to actual Americans in America for infrastructure, education or health care. Want to know who really hates America or is it just Americans… Republicans.
amuseinc,
Do you ever write anything that makes sense or responds to a previous post or are you only capable of repeating the same talking point over and over? It is especially telling how you consistently rely on vast generalization that label anybody that challenges your beliefs with the same derogatory title. It is the hallmark of bigotry, generalize and dehumanize.
I was against the war, I think the bailout is a terrible idea and I don’t believe any one business should have a different tax rate than another. Hell, I think churches and other “non-profits” should be taxes at the same rate as everybody else. Both Democrats and Republicans are up to their eyeballs in crony-capitalism and trying to say they aren’t is an all too obvious lie.
Your attempt to equate disagreement with “hating America” is just further evidence of how closely related partisan zealots are to each other. Once you get past the meaningless facade Republican and Democrat loyalists all say the exact same things. “They” are the saviors and anybody that disagrees is stupid and or evil. Meanwhile the actual point being made goes unchallenged.
KH makes good points. Just look at the Freddie and Fannie croneyism. While Barack Obama has received the 2nd most dollars from Freddie and Fannie in the nation’s history (right behind fellow Democrat Chris Dodd), McCain employs a high as a high-level campaign manager who has done lobbying for Fannie for years. That question last night was a comical pissing match as to who is most closely tied with Fannie and Freddie… and both candidates lost.
You’re simplifying way too much. You’re trying to pick a fight with Trent Lott. I’m not Trent Lott.
What do you call a pro-choice, pro-transit, pro-business, anti-government waste, anti-entitlement growth, pro-nuclear energy, pro-drilling, low-tax, believes-in-global-warming Moderate? Me. Sorry I don’t fit your mold.
You’re beginning to fit a mold, however. “The Angry Democrat”.
The above post was directed at amuse and lojasmo, not you, KH.
“I would still choose McCain.” Spoken by an Ugly American. It takes a prick to vote for a prick.
Wow, Ruthie. For a party that prides themselves in an illusion that they cherish free speech, you sure don’t have any tolerance for someone who plans to cast their vote differently than you.
After watching Republicans deregulate, trickle down and destroy our country for years, you expect me NOT to be angry. Why is it that anything bad and the Republicans insist it was a mutual deal and everybody is guilty, yet early in the Bush years it was GOP all the time… whee were the reason the world goes round, care for a no-bid contract?
Being angry is one thing. I’m angry about the decades of incompetent fiscal management by both parties that brought us to our current economic crisis. I’m angry that we invaded Iraq. I’m angry the Democrats nominated a candidate for senate that wasn’t smart or ethical enough to see the invasion as wrong. I’m mostly angry that both parties validate meaningless drivel as real policy while completely avoiding the pain realities we are facing.
However I try to avoid having the anger rationalize spewing simple minded bigotry like amuseinc, lojasmo, Ruthie and others. If you want respectful discourse based on issues it might be best to actually make an effort to engage others in that way.
And amuseinc. You could replace “trickle down” with “socialist” and Republican with Democrat in your last post and it would describe you far more accurately than most of the posts from DTM.
OK, lets try it, KH,
After watching Democrats deregulate, socialist and destroy our country for years, you expect me NOT to be angry. Why is it that anything bad and the Democrats insist it was a mutual deal and everybody is guilty, yet early in the Bush years it was Democrats all the time… whee were the reason the world goes round, care for a no-bid contract?
Hmmm.
Doesn’t read… reality is a real thing and no matter what kind of spin the Republicans want now they have been worshipping at the altar of St. Ronnie Reagan for years now. The Democrats have been fighting a basic rear-guard action and trying to find the nuggets of good sense in the onslaught. Republican economic policy has proved, false, dangerous and just plain WRONG.
I love how everything is linked back to Ronald Reagan. Yes, he made alot of changes most positive and some negative, all in the spirit of progress. But I need to point out one very small thing that may have been overlooked:
WE HAD EIGHT FULL YEARS OF A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION BETWEEN REAGAN AND TODAY!
Was eight years not enough time for Clinton to undo the stuff that rubs you so wrong?
No but 8 years of George Bush has all but sunk the Republican Party and proven its’ economic philosophy to be utter bullshit. Personally my Favorite Republican President was Clinton. That is one reason I was not surprised by the Republican hatred of the man… he co-opted most anything Republican he could get away with in the Democratic Party.
George Bush has basically put the GOP into a toilet stall with Larry Craig… a national joke being lead to defeat by a cranky old man and a foolish woman who’s ambition far outruns her abilities. John McCain is George Bush with extra added years of misgoverning experience but fewer verbal malfunctions. Sarah Palin is Dick Cheney without the charm. Neither one should be allowed within a football fields distance of the White House.
In the interest of completeness I will make a full list of my meaning in my previous post.
After watching Democrats regulate, socialize and destroy our country for years, you expect me NOT to be angry. Why is it that (when there is) anything bad and the Democrats insist it was a mutual deal and everybody is guilty, yet early in the (Clinton, FDR, Johnson, Cater) years it was GOP all the time… whee were the reason the world goes round, care for another unfunded entitlement program?
I figure everybody understood my point but I am more than willing to clarify. It seems that partisans on both sides of the aisle are unable to see the faults in their own party while exaggerating those of the other side.
And anybody that thinks the current tip of the economic iceberg we are currently seeing is the fault of only on party is being completely foolish. What we are seeing is decades worth of politically motivated bad decisions starting to bubble up. We purchased everything on credit. Our cars, houses, wars, light rail and social programs, everything. And now the payments are coming due. And I am not talking about government needing more money. I mean that as a nation we don’t have enough resources to continue our current standard of living. It doesn’t matter if that standard is provided by government or not. The meaningful problems are too big for the current breed of politics to deal with.