Despite all the desperate spinning that the Coleman Campaign has been trying to do, it appears that the law sides with Al Franken is his quest to ensure that every properly cast ballot is counted. Ramsey County District Judge Dale Lindman just ruled that information Ramsey County has on absentee ballots that were rejected or not counted must be turned over by the end of the day:
In his order, Lindman wrote: “The harm that [Franken’s campaign] would suffer absent a temporary restraining order and temporary injunction far outweighs any harm to [Ramsey County]. With each passing hour, the Franken campaign is irreparably harmed in its efforts to ensure that each valid vote is properly counted and to prepare for the procedures that will decide this election.”
The data to be released will not include information showing how each person voted, but only that information written on the envelopes in which the ballots are kept. [Strib]
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What happened to Democrats being the ones that trust the system and our election officials to do a fair and competent job? Oh yeah, now that the elections are over I almost forgot both parties are completely full of crap. Some supporters of both parties have an amazing ability to invent ways of convincing themselves that they aren’t fundamentally hypocritical liars. Some examples of which I’m sure will be soon to follow.
Well, KH - given that Senator Smokescreen started the legal war (and I find it hilarious that the first complaint ended with a Judge signing an order saying the claim “Coleman is the 4th most corrupt senator” is “substantially accurate, if not literally true”), are you really surprised that Franken decided to fight fire with fire?
TPT enters with the first BS excuse. The issue, if you are able to stick to one, is the repeated cry of Democrats that our election system and officials are fair and competent. If they really believed what they say, they don’t, they could have left the recount happen without interference, they didn’t. Coleman being a corrupt senator and his lawsuit about a campaign ad is about as relevant to that as the color of my dog’s new collar. Both Democrats and Republicans are doing a smash up job of destroying the minimal amount of credibility they have left and you seem intent on speeding that process along.
KH, if you want to see BS, look in the mirror.
At least both GOPers and DFLers don’t have to worry about the likes of you; rather than do some heavy lifting and get IRV enacted - so we might not have to witness this spectacle of Coleman’s attorneys getting their asses kicked (so far, they’re “O-fer”), you’d prefer to sit on the sidelines and bitch.
At least you got the whinin’ part of your bitchin’ down…
This is what really pisses me off about Republicans… they only follow the laws when it benefits themselves. They never seem to get that our civilization is based on the give and take of community. Of course Democrats feel that the election will be run fair and square. We will be there to make sure it is not because we are making a statement but because it is the rational thing to do. No hypocrisy, no BS sensibilities, just the way the world works.
Say why is it that Republicans are not taking responsibility for the Dow going below 8,000 because of 8 years of Republican domestic and foreign policies?
KH: I’ll answer your point.
First of all, I don’t recall “the repeated cry of Democrats that our election system and officials are fair and competent.” I recall saying that our officials are doing a good job and that our system has a well thought out process, which is different, but this is beside the point.
What this request, and the subsequent suit, was about had nothing to do with the competency of election officials and everything to do with transparency and thoroughness. Someone can be as competent as is ideally possible, but with the number of ballots coming in on election day, it’s just not reasonable to say that it’s not worth double-checking their work when we already have a mandated state-wide recount. That’s not an impeachment of our system or the officials who run it, it’s just an admission that double-checking the process by which absentee ballots were rejected probably makes sense when we’re already double-checking the process by which votes are tallied.
Perhaps I’m as adept at double-speak as you claim, but I don’t see the hypocrisy.
Having been an absentee voter before (mostly while in college) I never even gave it a thought that if my ballot was disallowed I would not be notified. Has it been standard practice to take those rejected absentees, set them aside, and say “oh well”? If so, is that where part of the problem resides?
Matt,
This isn’t about a recount happening, I think it should. I also believe Franken has a good shot of being ahead after it is complete. Your rationalization would be same type used by Republican hacks. Defending the integrity of the process, making sure the laws are followed, etc.. You can’t claim that the system is fit on one hand while saying that Franken needed to bring a lawsuit to ensure that fitness on the other. Admitting that the system needs outside motivation in the form of a lawsuit to do it’s best work is admitting that the system is not capable of effectively handling the recount. To claim that interference coming from one of the parties with the most to gain by manipulating the outcome will make it more fair is truly laughable.
The final outcome will be within the margin of error for the system. We don’t have a good way of handling such an outcome. Anybody that is suggesting the current politically motivated legal wrangling by either side is about protecting votes or Democracy has either been fooled or is lying.
TPT,
Since you have no idea what type of “lifting” I do it is obvious that your entire post is BS. Your consistent use of Republican sins to excuse your own is childish and destructive. Deciding not to join one corrupt gang of thugs or the other doesn’t mean I am sitting on the sidelines. On the other hand, joining one corrupt gang because you are afraid of the other one does make you a coward.
KH: I guess you and I differ in that I see litigation as a legitimate part of any legal process, not an external and foreign influence. Judges evaluate how the law is meant to function but it takes a suit being filed for them to rule on it. A judge just ruled that the law says that the candidates should be able to review absentee ballot information. That’s not “manipulating the outcome” that’s ensuring the process’s compliance with the law. Given the above, this sentence is just inaccurate: “Admitting that the system needs outside motivation in the form of a lawsuit to do it’s best work is admitting that the system is not capable of effectively handling the recount.” Our legal system needs the threat of litigation to function properly; for better or worse, that’s just how our system works.
I mean, the function that adversarial parties have in this process is even formally recognized within the internal process: challengers from each candidate get to sit and review the ballots. By your definition this is “interference coming from one of the parties” because it’s certainly “politically motivated.”
KH: The difference between democrats and republicans is that democrats believe that all legal votes should be counted.
KH,
Maybe this analogy will work for you. The NFL referees are the best and most professional people you can imagine. The league depends on their integrity and skill for its survival. But NFL refs are human, and sometimes screw up, so they have instant replay. Instant replay usually vindicates the Refs, but once on awhile it corrects an error.
Al is not questioning the integrity of the election Refs, he just wants an instant replay on disputed ballots. Just to make sure the play gets called right. What’s wrong with that?
Thanks, Alec
I suppose the Repubs could take credit for the Dow being below 8000 if only they had been the ones passing (or sitting on their hands) legislation the last two years as the minority party. This is fantastic news, since in four years the Dems can tout how much it’s gone up from below 8000! No doubt gas will be in the $1.68/gallon range like it is today.
tom a.
The republicans were the ones filibustering good legislation (100% increase over the 109th congress)
Just freaking great. Now we can see more examples of how Democrats try to steal the Minnesota Senate election. Franken is shameless. http://bit.ly/5Rdl
@jbenson
Bwahahaha! Fail.
KH, not joining the likes of you makes me “smart.”
My daughter’s absentee ballot did not make it to our precinct. She sent it on October 17th. Perhaps it is one of those rejected ballots because it went to the wrong place and her name was not in that roster. She would certainly like her ballot to be found and counted.
At least she would like to know that all of those rejected ballots were looked at again.
Matt,
I understand and agree that for better or worse the legal system is an integral part of the election process and don’t disagree with the substance of your post. The issue is that many Democrats seem to think that Coleman’s legal actions to protect his interests are debasing the system while Franken’s are necessary and pure of heart. If you believe that the interested parties must be active in the process in order to achieve the best outcome than you should be happy that Coleman is correctly playing his part. Especially when he looses the court challenges.
Many seem to wrap either sides challenges in the veil of “protecting the system” by either keeping out illegal ballots or ensuring that every legal vote is counted is BS. Both sides know the math and are working to give themselves the best shot of winning. No more, no less.
TPT,
The fact you put quotes around the word smart may be the funniest thing I have come across in weeks. I do appreciate the honesty of it, as unintentional as it might have been.
Alec,
The analogies I think have been stretched beyond any use. The truth is we can’t discern voter intent with enough accuracy to know who the “real” winner should be. We have to follow the process as currently designed with the recount and legal challenges included in order to select a winner. It is just that winner will be determined by the different variables involved in the measuring, not some pure form of democracy. Different ballots, either in layout or in order of the candidates names might have been enough to change the outcome. Neither of which have anything to do with a voter’s political preference.
KH, you need to get your story straight. In previous posts, you’ve discounted IRV, and when asked to help, you punted - you’ve said you have helped candidates (on both sides), but not parties, nor IRV. So my comment that you refuse to do any heavy lifting to get IRV enacted is based on what you’ve previously said.
And I’ll say it again - you got the whining down, pal. You sit on the sides and throw crap, but do nothing to improve the system. You aren’t part of the solution; you’re part of the problem.
TPT,
IRV is not the only way to do “lifting”. I didn’t mean to imply that that was my preferred issue because it most certainly isn’t for reasons I have stated before. You implied that unless somebody is fighting for IRV they are on the sidelines. That claim is absolutely BS.
Besides your whole method is one of throwing crap and you have said as much. Your juvenile excuse is that you should be able to do anything any Republican has ever done and shouldn’t have to be held accountable for your actions. Since Republicans lie, cheat and steal you lie cheat and steal. It still makes you a liar, cheat and a thief.
Just because I refuse to support your chosen ship of fools doesn’t mean I’m part of the problem. In fact it is the decades worth of people hopping from one party to the other that allows both to continue their morally bankrupt and ethically corrupt hold on our government. They are competing for the support of those most easily frightened. Neither the Republican or Democratic parties are capable of making meaningful positive changes. Supporting either might allow you to fool yourself into thinking you are “doing something”, but it sure as hell isn’t for the better.
“Besides your whole method is one of throwing crap and you have said as much.”
No, I have NOT - but then again, facts never seem to get in the way of your whines.
JBenson? If you can take a break from firing your employees that dared to have Obama stickers on their cars, check out some of the ballots that the Coleman campaign is contesting:
http://gawker.com/5094644/drudge-franken-broke-democracy
Just freaking great. Now we can see more examples of how Republicans try to steal the Minnesota Senate election. Coleman is shameless.
TPT,
When dealing with your many accusations against Coleman I recall you accepting the tactic of “throwing crap to the wall and seeing what sticks” as a valid method because Republicans use it. Your response to not having any actual evidence for most of your claims was, just as it so often is, “don’t ya just hate it when Democrats act like Republicans.” And yes, I do hate it when any idiot tries to hide their incompetence by point out the sins of others.
Go with that, KH - it works in your world. I always back up my claims against ol’ Smokescreen.
That “don’t ya hate it” line is used when someone else throws crap against the wall.
Do try to keep up.
I will go with it, it is accurate. And as usual your response is to repeat one of your idiotic, meaningless, hackneyed cliches. You make post game sports interviews sound like the Algonquin Round Table. Your posts are a mix of crap against the wall, innuendo and rumor. You have never posted anything with any insight or an original thought.
You are the perfect example of politics lowest common denominator. You are Joe the plumber with even less charm and wit. The idiot that switches parties when they finally see the corruption they have been supporting only to make the exact same mistakes by ignoring the corruption in his new gang. Excusing your hypocrisy and obfuscations along with those of like minded others by pretending you are all righteous warriors for a worthy cause. You represent very well the worst of whichever party from which you decide to regurgitate your talking points.
Want some cheese with your whine, loser?