I couldn’t agree more with Congressman Ellison’s statements today. These are dire times, Congress is about to spend billions (if not trillions) of dollars, Minnesota’s budget is deep in red, and we’re going to go into it all with only one Senator. We have certified election results and if Coleman’s legal challenge succeeds Franken can be recalled, but isn’t this the time to watch out for Minnesota’s interests instead of political interests? Here is what Congressman Ellison has to say (emphasis mine):
“We are in a recession; unemployment is pushing 9%; we’re embroiled in two wars; in the midst of a housing and financial crisis – and we have one Senator voting for us! Minnesotans are being short-changed by politics that were decided on November 4th.
The State Canvassing Board certified Al Franken’s 225 vote win after the most transparent and thorough recount process the country has witnessed. The Governor and the Secretary of State need to sign the certificate that allows Senator Franken to vote for Minnesotans.
Former Senator Coleman can continue his legal right to contest the election in the courts ‘til the cows come home – but not at Minnesotans’ expense.
This should not be about politics; it should be about giving Minnesotans their rightful second Senator so that he can vote on issues that will get this country moving again.
It would be unconscionable if any of President-elect Obama’s proposals to get this country moving again fell one vote short in the Senate – the one vote missing from Minnesota!
Sign the State Canvassing Board’s certificate and give us our second Senator!”
Not gonna happen - but can you at least link to the Supreme Court petition? Thanks.
http://www.mncourts.gov/Documents/2/Public/Civil/coleman/contestee_al_frankens_motion_to_dismiss.pdf <motion to dismiss
http://www.mncourts.gov/district/2/?page=3408. <everything else.
I actually disagree. The reason that Al Franken is the US Senator elect now instead of Coleman is because the system worked because Ritchie et. all followed the rules. If we were to seat Al Franken now, the rules be damned, we would be throwing that out for the sake of what? Follow the rules, make it legit. Don’t give Coleman or any others of the Republican fringe more reason to post crazy ideas about how ‘this election was stolen’.
By Minnesota law, they can’t certify the election until the challenges are complete. It’s not that they don’t WANT to seat Franken, it’s that they can’t arbitrarily ignore the law…eight years of Dubya should have taught us the dangers in that.
Make noise, but follow the rules. But make noise.
Making noise - a good advice.
This is all but done.
Now its come down to the waste of time that Coleman originally charged.
Now its down to being obstructionist, because Normy didn’t triumph, so you (he) jam(s) something into the gears
to break the machinery, or damage it, slow it.
Normy is about Normy from here on out.
— — — — — — — — -
The rules need to facilitate a perfect vote. We can’t go back & nail every one of those this time,
unless we all signed our ballots & can be asked again, if the paper was flawed. Even that has is problems.
We are pretty darn close, though. And we have a winner. We COULD move on. If this was about the state.
— — — — — — — — -
From here on, Minnesota is at a disadvantage with only 1 senator.
Normy could always give up & write a book.
A tell-all that actually told the truth, instead of spun, could pay off his house.
Would they let him survive it?
I agree that Franken and the other Dems need to chill. Love ‘em though I surely do. So far, our side has been the ones to try to count every validly submitted vote, and follow every law. It is annoying, but we need to follow the law. Having an extra month in the Senate is not worth the BS that would ensue. In my opinion of course.
Take care,
Alec
Well, the latest Coleman BS really takes the cake. Check out this Coleman fundraising e-mail
What a total jerk. I don’t agree with Franken pushing for the seating, but for Knaak to complain about Al declaring himself winner after Coleman claimed about 5 times he was the winner, and in reality Franken has been the only one officially declared winner. Coleman and Knaak are trying to destroy to the credibility of the Senate seat itself. These guys are bad for Minnesota. It is terrible!
I want Franken to represent us before those court cases are finished. We need to voice our concerns about no representation. Franken shouldn’t cool it, he should put it in turbo drive.
Minnesota does not deserve two senators at this point. We had a system in place that couldn’t handle the outcome of the election so the whole mess has ended up in court. If we didn’t have a good enough system in place to legally seat a senator at the appropriate time it is our own fault. Everybody quit your bitchin’. If it upsets you so much start working for a more precise, accurate and reliable election system in this state.
KH,
We do have the most precise, accurate, fair, and thorough election system in the nation. I also don’t see how missing 1 oir 2 months out of a 72 month term is really gonna matter in the long run.
Alec
If were just gonna make shit up, ie run off elections, losing a senate seat cause we dont “deserve” it due to a close race, ect, I say we give Sen Klobuchar 2 votes on the senate floor. She has the highest approval of any pol in the state, and we dont loose representation in while Norm screws the pooch.
Wow, KH says to quit bitchin, aint that rich…
I’m not arguing our system’s merits relative to other states, just to the needs of our recently held senate election. Ignoring the issues with the system we had out of arrogance and because we believe it to better than the crap in other states got us to where we are right now. Legally the system we have leaves us with one senator, end of story. If people were so worried about the “desperate times” or Minnesotans being assured of maximum representation they had a chance to do something about it. It just happens to be that the chance ended on election day. The state took the chance going with the system we had with the delusion it could handle anything put in front of it. The risk was taken and the price of people being wrong is Minnesota being down one Senator.
Another vote for a runoff election. That is the only way I can see clarity in a result and why some states have this in their laws. The original election outcome is based on machine count. The recount is a hand inspection that includes “voter intent”. I’m sorry, but in an election this close, “voter intent” is a killer. On the other hand, it probably won’t happen again for a hundred years.
KH, The system works fine. Franken won by 225 votes. The court challenges will quickly fritter out. Get over it.
There are cases where a recount has ended in a tie. Depending on state law, a coin toss is then the remedy, I dont know what we do here about that. Voter intent is a much smaller issue than registration errors issue surrounding absentee ballots/registration. We may find some areas that need tweaking, but broken? No way. If the outcome had been 225 votes the other way, I would be grumpy, but would know the count was accurate, and it was time to move on.
Run off elections would have a whole lots of issues to iron out, and IRV, I guess we will see how that pans out in Minneapolis this fall.
Seal,
There is no such thing as a “statistical tie” in Minnesota. If there is a literal tie, then it is decided by lots.
KH,
I think the problem is, the state, in a big picture sense, probably doesn’t see a problem in being without a Senator for 1/72nd of a Senate term, in order to get things right. Right now everyone is so terrified about what horrible things might befall Minnesota in the next month, but in, say, 2011, no one will even remember we were one senator short for 1/72nd of a term, or worst case scenario 1/36th of a term. That is 1.4% or 2.8% of the term for the fractionally challenged. So, Franken should maintain his adherence to the law. Lord knows Coleman won’t.
I really don’t care if Tweedledum or Tweedledee ends up getting the seat, never did. What continues to amaze is the absolute idiocy that is required to be a partisan on either side. Coleman now claiming to be fighting to find the true “voter intent” while Franken wants everybody to ignore the law and seat him anyway. Meanwhile their little soldiers screaming about the hypocrisy of the other guy while they mindlessly rationalize the same behavior of the clown they support.
The only reason attilla and like minded fanboys think the system worked fine is because it looks like it gave them the result they wanted. CMan has it right. The election system is supposed to measure voter intent precisely and accurately enough to provide an unquestionable winner. The system we currently have failed to do that. The winner, whoever it is, will be determined without anyone knowing the true nature of voter intent. It will have been determined by the design of the system.
Get over it.
The law is the law. No exceptions.
Make noise, but direct it at
- Coleman and his ilk - to drop their suits and concede.
- Your legislator - to change the law so this won’t happen again.
KH: I have said ALL along that if the recount was consistent, and open, I would accept any outcome.
lojasmo,
The issue is not, nor has it ever been any body’s willingness to accept the outcome as any individual’s willingness in the matter is meaningless. There will be little to nothing that can be done about it unless you happen to be one of the presiding judges or on the legal team for one of the candidates. It is simply being honest in evaluating how we got to where we are and how the final decision will be made along with what it says about our system.
KH
WHat I am saying, though you seem to be too obtuse to understand, is that I would have believed the system worked fine no matter who had won….because the system was fair and transparent. I do suspect, however, that you wouldn’t be peddaling this mealy-mouthed crap if Coleman had won.
lojasmo,
My only mistake is not believing anybody could write such shallow, myopic and bafflingly pointless comments as your’s seem to be. Since I never mentioned you, the only way you could have taken offense is if you are a self described fanboy. Defined as,”an individual who is devoted to a single subject in an emotional or fanatical manner, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession”.
I never claimed that the process was not fair or that it did not proceed as intended. That does not change the fact that the system was not able to do what was intended to do, find the true measure of voter intent. Your, my or anybody else’s willingness to accept or believe in the righteousness of the outcome is absolutely meaningless. In this rare case we can’t know the true end result. The only thing up for meaningful discussion at this point is whether or not the system can be improved, at what cost and with what resulting value.
I’ll repeat what I said the day after the election, when Coleman was up by more then Franken’s current margin. The difference is too small based on the accuracy which our system is able to measure voter intent for a true us to ever know who “won”.
It seems as though all of your angst with my comments is based on what you suspect and assume. Yet more evidence that your preferred method of analysis is to; find a conclusion you like, force evidence to support that conclusion, ignore contradictory evidence, if all else fails simply make things up or use innuendo to discredit those who disagree. The great part from my point of view is you continually provide an example of why supporting either party is nothing but a fool’s errand.
Sorry to stir the pot! Time to bring this post back into the fold. Just saw Franken on the news sitting with Reid today. Will the Senate Democrats actually try to use their power to bypass the legal proceedings? Are they worried about feeling “presumptuous” as was eluded to in the newscast? Ben Ginsberg now with the Coleman team. Oh boy, this will set the left on fire. Both sides are digging in. Wouldn’t a run off be so much easier in the end?
In short, the Senate would have to order a ‘do-over’, and they probably won’t. They decide their peers, right? It’ll come down to the Senate. It’s a done deal, the way I hear it. Coleman would have to prove what he probably can’t.
Take a look at this mn progressive project post and comments:
http://www.mnprogressiveproject.com/diary/2483/is-colemans-goal-a-doover
Then it would go to the Rules Committee in the Senate, Charlie Schumer, Chair, and it would be up to that Body. I tend to think Charlie would make short work of it. Charlie is an operator, and I can very clearly see him suggesting that some Republican Senators may not get some of their interests tended to in, for instance, the Stimulus Bill…
Still thinking about this. I would guess Norm’ll have to make sure a few election judges aren’t corrupt and purposefully threw the election… Or, what am I missing? Are there enough votes in question to show he might be the winner?
Hopefully they’ll issue the certificate, soon.
Cman
The final arbiter of senatorial seating is the senate itself.
Gregoire was seated provisionally by the senate in her recent close race. There is clear history of doing so.
A run off would be time consuming, and VERY costly. We look to have a clear ending to this within weeks (of course, Coleman will appeal, but franken can certainly be seated provisionally in the interim)
They are about to debate a stimulus bill and we only have one Senator in Washington. We need a 2nd. As much as I hate pork, we need someone to be able to represent our interests.
I would favor sending Arne Carlson. He is an obvious moderate who has been supported by Minnesotans in the past. He could bridge this gap, whether it be 2 more weeks or 3 more months.
I’ve never heard the straight scoop. Is there a provision in the law to allow an interim?
I’m not sure, but I think the Senate can appoint an interim. I don’t think it can come from Pawlenty.
Of course, if the Senate wants to maintain faith and goodwill, they won’t appoint Franken or Coleman until all issues in this recount are resolved.
If a vacancy is declared, Pawlenty could appoint an interim senator. There will be no vacancy declared.
The senate could seat Franken provisionally, and would within their rights to do so.
The Senate could seat anyone, right? Since no winner has been certified, it would basically be a random appointment either way?