The American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan is a nationwide effort to create jobs, jumpstart growth and transform our economy for the 21st century. Across the country, this plan will help businesses create jobs and families afford their bills while laying a foundation for future economic growth in key areas like health care, clean energy, education and a 21st century infrastructure. In Minnesota, this plan will deliver immediate, tangible impacts, including:
· Creating or saving 70,000 jobs over the next two years. Jobs created will be in a range of industries from clean energy to health care, with over 90% in the private sector. [Source: White House Estimate based on Romer and Bernstein, “The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan.” January 9, 2009.]
· Providing a making work pay tax cut of up to $1,000 for 2,120,000 workers and their families. The plan will make a down payment on the President’s Making Work Pay tax cut for 95% of workers and their families, designed to pay out immediately into workers’ paychecks. [Source: White House Estimate based on IRS Statistics of Income]
· Making 41,000 families eligible for a new American Opportunity Tax Credit to make college affordable. By creating a new $2,500 partially refundable tax credit for four years of college, this plan will give 3.8 million families nationwide – and 41,000 families in Minnesota – new assistance to put college within their reach. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities analysis of U.S. Census data]
· Offering an additional $100 per month in unemployment insurance benefits to 331,000 workers in Minnesota who have lost their jobs in this recession, and providing extended unemployment benefits to an additional 52,000 laid-off workers. [Source: National Employment Law Project]
· Providing funding sufficient to modernize at least 91 schools in Minnesota so our children have the labs, classrooms and libraries they need to compete in the 21st century economy. [Source: White House Estimate]
In addition to this immediate assistance for Minnesota, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan will help transform our economy by:
· Doubling renewable energy generating capacity over three years, creating enough renewable energy to power 6 million American homes.
· Computerizing every American’s health record in five years, reducing medical errors and saving billions of dollars in health care costs.
· Launching the most ambitious school modernization program on record, sufficient to upgrade 10,000 schools.
· Enacting the largest investment increase in our nation’s roads, bridges and mass transit systems since the creation of the national highway system in the 1950s.
Hot off the presses: the Obama Administration released a report detailing the state by state impact of the proposed economic stimulus package. Here is what they say will happen in Minnesota
It is being reported tonight that the republicans are accusing Obama of using FEAR to get the American people to support his economic stimulus plan. I’d say the real fear is that the FACTS will sell themselves, and the republicans will be left to deal with the repercussions of not supporting anything that could actually help this country out of a depression. Hoping our new President fails is not a strategy for recovery!
My daughter just went to a job fair at her University; very few companies were there, and most were simply fulfilling a commitment to participate. How are bloated salaries and bonuses for CEO’s, naming stadiums, or fancy jets and vacations going to help these college graduates find jobs?!
The TAX CUT MANTRA has been used for 15 years now, and it hasn’t worked. Our country has to start manufacturing again, and I think from now on, any tax cuts must be tied to incentives to create jobs, eliminate outsourcing, and outlaw offshore banking. We can’t continue to just move money around and think that is going to save our economy.
People need to work.
First off, Obama is using fear to try to get this stimulus passed. Every day he talks about how not passing the bill immediately would basically lead to a depression. They will get something done, but something of this magnitude needs to be well thought out and not hastily put together like the TARP program was…because that certainly did not and will not work.
SouthwestDem - You talked about how there were not many companies at your daughter’s job fair…as a recent graduate I can sympathize with that, but I have to ask: what is in the stimulus bill that will get companies like Target, Best Buy, Ameriprise, and corporations like that hiring agina? Where are the tax cuts that will allow them to put more money into growth oriented projects?
You say our country has to start manufacturing again, but why would a company open a new manufacturing plant when we have the second highest corporate tax in the world? Most of the “tax cuts” in the stimulus plan are going to poor people who do not pay taxes. That will not stimulate the economy in the slighest, because here’s the thing….poor people don’t open factories, poor people don’t start companies that create jobs and grow the economy.
I 100% agree with you that “we can’t continue to just move money around.” Unfortunately, that’s exactly what this stimulus bill is doing. It’s taking money from the left pocket and putting it in the right pocket. What you liberals don’t understand is that for the government to spend money, it first has to take money, and when this happens there is nothing that is being done to grow the economy.
And what have all the tax cuts for business done for the last 8 years?! The whole trickle down mentality has failed miserably and put us into a depression!
You don’t address the real issue that has gotten us where we are today — unfettered corporate and personal greed. After 8 years of “fear of terrorists” now the republicans are crying foul when a new president who came into office with an 80% approval rating calls a spade a spade. I would think most people would agree that this economy is causing more fear than any thought of a terrorist attack.
If the scope of your job market is clerking at Target and Best Buy, you have a sorry view of what this country needs. We need manufacturing jobs that can support a middle class. We need infrastructure repairs and energy creation. If corporate greed had not sent all of our jobs overseas, then corporations would not now have to be looking for tax handouts to supply jobs to the American people. If they had used their corporate profits to better their industries instead of lining their own pockets, we would not be in the situation we are in right now. No amount of tax cuts will overcome corporate greed at the top.
Why should the middle class continue to fund these robber barons? How many of these corporations have millions of dollars stashed away in offshore accounts, waiting for congress to allow them to “repatriate” those dollars at a much reduced tax rate (~4%), like they did in 2004? And where did that get us?! Was any of that money used to create, build and expand business? Or did the people at the top get lots of bonuses and perks? Where is your outrage at such unamerican and unpatriotic behavior?!
SwD,
As soon as you spout off about “trickle down” and “corporate greed” you lose all credibility.
Earlier, you stated
“We can’t continue to just move money around and think that is going to save our economy”.
You seem to forget that all the “stimulus bill” is doing is moving money around from the taxpayers to the government and then back to people whom the government deems more worthy of the money. And just how is this going to save the economy?
Facts and logic please, not more potification and worn out rhetoric.
Thanks, Really?, for reinforcing my point about the “stimulus” being just a giant redistribution of money. I think anyone should be able to see that. SWD makes some good points about what this country needs, infrastructure and manufacturing, but unfortunately, this bill does not provide enough of either.
SWD talks about how tax cuts don’t work, but under Bush we’ve had the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world. Why would people want to invest capital in the U.S. when they could get much higher returns almost anywhere else in the world? Tax cuts worked for JFK and Reagan because they understood that a you can run a deficit as long as it is a deficit in short-term revenue with the goal of increasing that revenue(taxes) through the growth in the economy spurred on by the lower taxes.
The sad thing is that I think Obama knows this bill is junk but he made a huge gaff in handing over the creatiion of the bill to uber-lefty Pelosi and the rest of congress rather than giving them an already crafted stimuls bill. Now he’s hamstung in that he basically has to support whatever congress came up with even though he probably knows that this bill is the ultimate non-stimulus stimulus.
“The sad thing is that I think Obama knows this bill is junk but he made a huge gaff in handing over the creatiion of the bill to uber-lefty Pelosi and the rest of congress rather than giving them an already crafted stimuls bill. Now he’s hamstung in that he basically has to support whatever congress came up with even though he probably knows that this bill is the ultimate non-stimulus stimulus.”
JT — Don’t forget that Obama was the most left senator in the senate. He may know Pelosi stuffed this bill with 8 years of frustration, but he is all about massive spending by ideology. The only change is that the success of our economy is now teetering on his watch. There are a few more things to consider once it’s your ass
on the line. It looks like something will come out of this weekend as they have a few Republicans (the usual suspects) ready to vote in favor. The question remains if they can get all the Democrats. By the way, if you saw his speech last night to his fellow Democrats, it was pretty much still an “in your face! accept it!” mentality.
How can anybody in their right mind think that doing the same things that got us in this economic mess are going to get us out? Republican domestic economic policy has been a complete disaster since Reagun. Want proof check out the Stock Market, spendable income figures and unemployment.
And dear economic buffoons… no poor people don’t build factories. Well they do in a round about way. A smart businessman, unlike you two, sells a product to people. All those middle class and “poor” people right now have no rational reason to buy anything. Give them a little job security and a little “stimula” and surprise they buy and use products and services. Its’ called capitalism.
Now if you go for the Republican policies of the last 20 years you give the rich the tax breaks. Do they consume more? No, they are pretty much up to having whatever they want already. Instead they tell their money manager to handle it. They add a few zeros onto a fiscal statement. That’s called crony capitalism and makes for no job growth because the liquid cash gets sloshed round the world.
In simpler terms, give a guy making $20,000 a year an extra $200 and he will spend it in America. Give a guy making $200,000 a year $2,000 and he won’t.
Just admit that trickle down economic theory is just piss on people and get over with it. Republican economic theory has just been proved wrong for the second time under George Bush. The first time it was Herbert Hoover.
So, fine! Pass an economic stimulus package. Democrats and Republicans alike want to do so. But as I referred to earlier, The Democratic congress is playing. “Hey f-you, we won so here’s all the spending we wanted for the last eight years. The Republicans over-reached when they had power. Now it appears the Democrats are so gloating over there new obtained power that they will do the same. This isn’t what Obama preached during his campaign, or was that just more political garbage speak? Last I saw, around 60% of the American people are against this “spendulus” package. They want true stimulus with all this other big spending left to appropriation bills down the line (which they probably also have a good chance of passing). These Democrtaic congress men and women have to rerun down the line. It looks like they’re rolling the dice and not sure if they are putting their political careers in jeopardy.
Cman stop with the idiocy.
this bill is 54% spending, and 46% tax cuts.
CMan:
“Hey f-you, we won so here’s all the spending we wanted for the last eight years. The Republicans over-reached when they had power. Now it appears the Democrats are so gloating over there new obtained power that they will do the same.”
That is only your opinion.
You are Republican.
Your opinion has little credibility.
If you want socialism, you are in favor of Pelosi’s stimulus bill. From what I’ve read in these blogs, that is what many of you favor and have even said so. If that is the case, there is no discussion to have here. Logasmo — 46% are tax cuts? Are they going to cut my federal tax rates and also those of my employer? Or are they going to give a tax break to those who don’t pay taxes (redistribution of wealth)? Nitro — I am a “conservative” and we will see down the road if I have any credibility.
A little cheese with that whine, CMan???
“socialism”
blah, blah, blah. Can’t you guys get some material that makes sense?
You got those damn tax cuts up the wazoo & you are STILL crying in your beer like a tantruming child!!!!
The so-called “conservative” cred went out the window with Bush. Call him whatever you like,
THAT was the anchor you guys hugged & jumped overboard holding, sorry to say.
And left the Republican Party mostly Dead Man Walking.
The RECESSION started in Dec of 2007 & Bushboys lied & said “no, there’s no downturn.”
Didn’t the Bushboys admit they first broached the problems SECRETLY in late June, I believe it was.
Sat on it for at least weeks while meeting in the white house, by their own admission.
Where the hell were you on the 11th hour “just sign here” bailout of wall street & banks???
Was that maybe a Rove scam, to spend all the money first? Drown the ECONOMY in the bathtub???
Somebody tell Norquist they’ve almost done it.
oh yeah - and didn’t the British Prime Minister refer to the DEPRESSION just a few days ago?
And what the hell are you doing serving that underage child?
You guys even got a liquor license here?
Wow, so much misinformation in so few posts.
Obama the most liberal senator-FALSE
Tax cuts go to those who don’t pay taxes-FALSE
JT, you do realize that the US has a fairly LOW effective tax rate compared to the rest of the industrialized world, don’t you?
I like the specifics about how it will help. (Schools, roads, estimated this and that.) I’m glad we’re thinking of other things besides building infrastructure, too.
I’d like to hear more specifics on how it would help Minnesota.
Sean - If you give a refundable tax credit to someone who has ZERO tax liability, is that not giving a “tax cut” to someone who doesn’t pay taxes? I guess you are right in the fact that these are not tax cuts to people who don’t pay taxes, because in fact, they are welfare checks to people who don’t pay taxes.
I wasn’t the one in this string who claimed Obama was the most liberal senator, but I believe he was ranked the most liberal in the senate in 2007 by The National Journal or something….granted you can’t put a lot of stock in that, but it wasn’t a completely baseless claim.
JT messes up a rumor badly
Why can’t we edit these posts anymore? I meant to say JT badly messes up a rumor!
The Stimulus bill is designed to help all the classes. Did someone send a memo saying people on welfare don’t work? That rumor needs to be put to bed.
We’re trying to help everyone before we all go under. Before everyone’s boat is tossed out of the water. Before many of us who used to have perfect credit are living in shacks by the river. Before… well I guess that’s enough.
It’s too bad that some confuse socialism with regulated capitalism. It all depends on where the power is, what we decide to call it, who it helps, and are we a healthy nation. Socialism is out. Liberal democrats want regulated capitalism.
Even though democrats cherish freedom, they might not do a good job telling people that. The opposite of that is the Republicans who have always wanted less government, less regulation, etc. and that is what landed us where we are, today, which is very close to where we were in Hoover’s time.
Here’s some history for us to keep in mind as we yell about the particulars(I love history and so sorry if it gets annoying):
www dot whitehouse dot gov/about/presidents/
Harding had a hard presidency — a lot of corruption, and keeping the corruption hidden was a mistake.
By 1923 the postwar depression seemed to be giving way to a new surge of prosperity, and newspapers hailed Harding as a wise statesman carrying out his campaign promise — “Less government in business and more business in government.”
Behind the facade, not all of Harding’s Administration was so impressive. Word began to reach the President that some of his friends were using their official positions for their own enrichment. Alarmed, he complained, “My…friends…they’re the ones that keep me walking the floors nights!”
Looking wan and depressed, Harding journeyed westward in the summer of 1923, taking with him his upright Secretary of Commerce, Herbert Hoover. “If you knew of a great scandal in our administration,” he asked Hoover, “would you for the good of the country and the party expose it publicly or would you bury it?” Hoover urged publishing it, but Harding feared the political repercussions.
Coolidge had a cool presidency, and everyone was riding high. Except for the signs the market would soon be in trouble. Coolidge kept to his Republican ideals and refused to remedy the situation, leaving Hoover with several pots boiling on the stove (even if the citizens couldn’t see it in everyday life, yet):
(Coolidge) refused to use Federal economic power to check the growing boom or to ameliorate the depressed condition of agriculture and certain industries. His first message to Congress in December 1923 called for isolation in foreign policy, and for tax cuts, economy, and limited aid to farmers.
He rapidly became popular. In 1924, as the beneficiary of what was becoming known as “Coolidge prosperity,” he polled more than 54 percent of the popular vote.
Former secretary of commerce and later President Hoover didn’t raise taxes, and then asked for a huge tax. The Smoot-Hawley tarrif made Europe and others angry and so they shut us out of the market (yes, we did have a global market back then, it could be argued).
(Hoover, upon election) “We in America today are nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land.” His election seemed to ensure prosperity. Yet within months the stock market crashed, and the Nation spiraled downward into depression.
After the crash Hoover announced that while he would keep the Federal budget balanced, he would cut taxes and expand public works spending.
In 1931 repercussions from Europe deepened the crisis, even though the President presented to Congress a program asking for creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation to aid business, additional help for farmers facing mortgage foreclosures, banking reform, a loan to states for feeding the unemployed, expansion of public works, and drastic governmental economy.
At the same time he reiterated his view that while people must not suffer from hunger and cold, caring for them must be primarily a local and voluntary responsibility.
His opponents in Congress, who he felt were sabotaging his program for their own political gain, unfairly painted him as a callous and cruel President. Hoover became the scapegoat for the depression and was badly defeated in 1932. In the 1930’s he became a powerful critic of the New Deal, warning against tendencies toward statism.
are they going to give a tax break to those who don’t pay taxes
But they do pay taxes. Payroll taxes, sale taxes, fees. And they also produce. No worker on the planet can match the American worker for dollars per hour produced. This, while their wages have remained stagnant or even declined over the last eight years. Meanwhile, the top 2%, have seen their incomes rise 150% in the last eight years. Could this be described as “redistribution of wealth”? Class war has been the conservative meme for 30 years now, as if it’s something that should be avoided. Of course the conservatives would not like to see the unwashed proletariat rise up but, it would actually be the best thing in the world for our economy. Supply side economics has been proven, again, to be a failed economic approach and thankfully a more rational Keynesian model is going to be adopted. We are a demand based economy and with the middle class taking it’s deserved cut of the pie back from the landed gentry, the demand for goods and services will increase. Class war? Absolutely, bring it on.
Richard, Richard, Richard,
Take you class warfare talk somewhere else. You are outgunned, my fried little friend. You are a hateful little bigot. I am sure that whatever skills you have acquired during your life are incapable of keeping you or a family clothed, fed and housed. Just show up on my doorstep trying to take my wealth. You can have all the lead your head can handle.
Your hate speech is demeaing to most realistic liberals.
GOP’ers hate to talk about class warfare when the idea of a real class war hits them square in the face. The reality of it is the wealthy have been waging a one sided assault on the working class for thirty years. So Really?, you better arm up and take to your bunker. Maybe you better liquidate all your paper assets and buy gold. It’s easier to bundle up and defend. Otherwise, I’m thinking if you make over a mil a year, things are going to change drastically. Less then that, you’ll reap the benefits.
Define “the wealthy” please.
Thanks.
DtM: Learn to read more carefully. Richard pretty much spelled it out in the post above yours. (hint: It’s one fifth of what McCain defined as wealthy)
Ahh, thanks.
I’m all for everyone paying their fair share. I don’t believe that a corporate exec should have loopholes that allow him or her to use company jets for tax-free personal use (they do). I don’t believe any million-dollar earner should be able to not pay taxes according to the tax code, whether the last name is Gates, Obama, Madoff, Daschle, or Buffett. I also think that the $1 millionth dollar you earn in a year should be taxed at a rate higher than the $10 thousandth dollar.
Let’s let the IRS do their job and collect ALL taxes due. Let’s get rid of loopholes that allow the super-wealthy to get a million-dollar tax break that you or I don’t have access to.
But I also believe the purpose of taxes is to fund government, not re-adjust whose pockets money went into based on a politician’s personal preference, or a public servant’s resentment of success.
Richard,
Unlike you, I do not want to “reap the benefits” of taking money from someone else. Just let me keep what I earn in the same percentage as everyone else. And If I earn more than you, don’t get in my face about it. Try staying in school, not getting pregnant, get off the drugs, and spend what you can afford.
Let’s institute the flat 17% tax and get all income into the tax base. You will be taxed on what you spend, not what you earn. No more write-offs, no more breaks for home ownership, Hybrid car ownership, farm ownership, loopsholes for “the wealthy”, number of kids or any other thing that some lobbyist got written into the tax code that is taking money from one group and giving to another.
And, if your income is less than $50K, and you keep your receipts, you will be given a credit for all taxes paid, so it will not be regressive.
Now, you have taken away the class warfare angle. You will no longer be able to villify me becuase I worked hard, started a business, went to college and a top MBA program (spending 19 years of my life in schools) and invested wisely. You will tax me on what I spend. And what I don’t spend will go into banks and other investments that will create jobs or lower the cost of borrowing for those people who want to buy a house or car or start a business on credit.
Please explain to me how this is a bad idea.
And Richard, more conservatives own guns than do liberals. Real class warfare will hit you hard my friend.
Dear “Really?”
“And Richard, more conservatives own guns than do liberals. Real class warfare will hit you hard my friend.”
This comment is completely unacceptable. I’m not sure what you’re implying, or what you think you’re saying, but what I can tell you is that in your cowardly, anonymous internet mind that you if write anything like this on our website you will be banned and we will contact your ISP.
This comment is unacceptable for a few reasons, first it’s very thinly a threat against another member of this board and it’s stupid.
Don’t do it again.
While you may have graduated from “a top MBA program” (which, if you’ll excuse my snark, didn’t they teach you better uses for your time than anonymous shit talking on the internet?) if you didn’t understand any of this feel free to contact me at info@mnpublius.com.
Thanks for commenting,
Sean
Thank you Sean, I did not mean to elicit that kind of comment nor was I personally threatened but I do appreciate your insistence that the tone of this blog be kept reasonably civil. For my part, I apologize to everyone.
Sean,
I am not implying anything, and certainly not threatening anyone. Richard wanted class warfare. What I did was state a fact. More conservatives own guns than do liberals. If it comes to the point in this great country where the lib agenda has begun confiscating everyone’s wealth for a socialist agenda, then there will be another civil war. And since liberals like to ban weapons rather than to use them, they will be at a disadvantage. Which is why libs want to keep banning and confiscating them.
Now, that said, sorry, no more war/gun discussion.
Really?, when you can’t argue your point effectively, do you always drop back on the “socialist agenda” meme? Congratulations on being successful, I really hope all the best for you because it’s good for society to have successful people. It’s also good for society to not have poor people, or hungry people, or unemployed people. Those people cause problems for society. Your society. The community that you are a part of. Wealthy people use a greater proportion of government services then poor people so wealthy people need to pay for that. Wealthy people benefit more from a stable, prosperous economy so wealthy people need to pay for that. The free lunch is over. The criminals Bush and Reagan are gone now and the 30 year free ride that the wealthiest among us have been on has pulled into the station. That ticket needs to be paid.
Richard — I have leveled the “socialist” agenda here many times myself and am always greeted with the same responses. Call it “regulated capitalism” or whatever you want to term the liberal agenda, but it is a move towards socialism. It is not a successful form of long term government. If what you say about the poor not being good for our society, why do you want to take us down the path where more and more people find it easier to live off of government handouts than getting jobs and paying your own way. The larger our government becomes with more and more entitlements, the sooner the day will come where people will choose not to work. Both those who want a free ride and those who figure out it’s not worth all the hard work and expense to support those people. Look at the current system where able bodied people have chosen a government handout as opposed to working hard and supporting themselves. Some have figured out the system and are not looking to go to work. I have always been for assisting those in our society who need the help. But I am opposed to paying for those who CAN but choose NOT to work!
Richard,
It looks like that is where we’ll make cuts — from programs that help the ones that need it the most. Or, are those the ones who CAN but choose NOT to work?
Even our Dem state candidates are jumping on the bandwagen: cuts, cuts cuts. I wonder how we can turn it around so we can get our effective government back. Perhaps we should focus on winning the gubernatorial race?
‘Helping people make it’ effects us all in the long run. Take that health care away from the poor, struggling family and you and I will pay more, later.
Democrats pay now (even though we may not enjoy it) and Republicans argue for what will eventually cost us much more, later.
bandwagon
CMan, again with the GOP’er talking points.
those who CAN but choose NOT to work!
This is largely a mythical creation. Ask around, if welfare is such a great deal, why don’t you quit working? Ask your fellow management handjobs. Would any of them quit sucking off the workers doing the heavy lifting, to go on welfare. Of course not. There is such a thing as institutional unemployment. Somewhere around 1.5 or 2% unemployment you’ve got everyone who wants a job, employed. That 1.5 to 2.0% are people in between jobs or people, while physically capable lack the motivation or whatever prompts us to get out of bed every morning. People will never choose to quit working. It’s not, nor has it ever been in our nature. To suggest that is just being ridiculous and proves you have no leg to stand on. Meanwhile, 4.1 million people lost their job last year. Do you want to talk to them about the evils of socialism? Meanwhile, CEO’s have seen their salaries go up 150% in the last eight years. Do you want to tell the unemployed that that’s okay because it represents the free market just doing it’s thing?
“Democrats pay now (even though we may not enjoy it) and Republicans argue for what will eventually cost us much more, later.”
I don’t completely buy that, Holly. Democrats talking about expanding programs…adding additional layers of “help” for people, which really becomes an unfunded mandate for future generations. When Medicare was set up with a static eligiblity age of 65, we thought it would be a great program that would be solvent. Now, it is going to be insolvent by 2017. The only way to keep Medicare from taking 20%, 30%, 40% of our grandchildren’s incomes will be to crank up the eligibility age by alot (into the 80’s) AND (not or) means test so many who paid in to Medicare won’t be eligible to be covered by it. That is all the result of trying to help someone without designing the system to be sustainable. Medicare is just one example of how putting expenses on debt isn’t the only wait to “pay later”, designing a screwed up system that will get worse for infinity also screws our kids.
A note about CEO pay. Quick history lesson. CEO salaries used to be very in line with what we all would expect. They would be highly paid for a job well done, but you’d never see them make eight figures year after year. That changed when the anti-business people cried about tying more of their income to performance. So Boards shifted compensation away from salary, and into stock bonuses, the logic being that if the stock did poorly, the CEO would not have a good year. Pay for performance.
Look at the guys making $20 million a year. It is typically a salary of $500,000 and a stock bonus of $19.5M. All because the system change to accomodate people who didn’t like what the other guy was getting paid.
I personally think it is fine for someone to get paid millions. It isn’t like he blackmailed the company into hiring him or her. The Board probably offered him a nice package to lure him or her over because they really wanted that person to lead their company. I do, however, think that if someone makes $10 million, they should pay the roughly $3.5 million in tax like the tax code says. Enough with loopholes.
Why don’t all the politicians follow State Senator Dick Day’s employment effort: Spend over $10,000 of campaign funds in 2008 for his campaign effort in a non-election year for work by his wife and another person; and he calls his campaign committee “Day Volunteer Committee” - how is that for volunteerism! Is this a great way to stimulate the econoy or what?
Oh, and it looks like he had to borrow from himself to pay his wife.
Why don’t all the politicians follow State Senator Dick Day’s employment effort: Spend over $10,000 of campaign funds in 2008 for his campaign effort in a non-election year for work by his wife and another person; and he calls his campaign committee “Day Volunteer Committee” - how is that for volunteerism! Is this a great way to stimulate the economy or what?
Oh, and it looks like he had to borrow from himself to pay his wife.
Who typically sits on these Boards? Is it elected major stock holders? People of wealth and influence deciding the yearly compensation of other people of wealth and influence. Wow, this game seems a bit rigged. It’s like a group of organized workers who demand a certain level of wages and benefits. What would you call a group like that?
Good god, Richard. You just don’t get it.
You’ve been watching too much “Dynasty”. The rest of the world doesn’t operate that way. Yes, a person on a Board probably is a major shareholder, probably does have hundreds of thousands or millions riding on that company’s stock. I’d say that he or she has a lot more right to have a say in the CEO’s compensation than some bureaucrat working in the beltway.
If the Board member prioritizes scratching his buddy’s back over protecting and growing his own investment, then he deserves for that stock to be decimated and the company to go under. No bailouts.
“Would any of them quit sucking off the workers doing the heavy lifting, to go on welfare. Of course not.”
“People of wealth and influence deciding the yearly compensation of other people of wealth and influence. Wow, this game seems a bit rigged.”
Richard — I am disappointed with the level of corruption that has been on the increase in the corporate world. And, yes, some of the compensation packages seem beyond comprehension to average folks. But who the hell do you think is going to employ the American people? The Government? I get the feeling you hate anyone in corporate America that is successful and manages the masses. And you think the government is the answer? They can’t keep track of the huge bureaucracy that we currently have. And, if you’ve noticed the amount of corruption in the government ranks is also is at an all time high. Spending bill after spending bill with billions of dollars, soon to be trillions of dollars, with a few Washington elitists (our elected officials) throwing a dart on what is best for Richard. You may call my words GOP talking points. In my opinion friend, you are a socialist. Have you ever considered moving to an established socialist country where you might be happier, or are you just intent on destroying ours?
Richard says: “Ask your fellow management handjobs. Would any of them quit sucking off the workers doing the heavy lifting, to go on welfare.”
I know you’d like to think we’re all straight from the Dilbert comic strip, but low and behold a few of us actually make the business better, allowing us to employ more staff, not less. I know, I know, it doesn’t fit the mold you’d like to stick us in to.
“Wealthy people use a greater proportion of government services then poor people so wealthy people need to pay for that.”
Perhaps marginally. I use airports for work, but then again that is priced into my airfare tax. My family has two cars, so I guess we use the roads and bridges more than a family with one or none. But to the magnitude of our taxes? I doubt it. My federal tax bill will be over $100K this year. 6 years ago, my salary wasn’t even that high. I am using many times more government resources today? No. Perhaps 5, 10% more. But not as much as the difference in my tax bill would suggest.
I’m not complaining. I’m grateful. And I’ve gotten to that income level by having government provide the basic services and freedoms (which I am happy to pay for) and then finding a place in society where I can add unique value, and then pursuing that niche with enthusiasm. Had I waited for someone to come and legislate a path to success, I’d still be waiting.
DantheMan,
If Richard has a cogent reponse to your post I will be amazed. Good for you for learning a skill, taking a risk, working hard, and earning good money.
Folks, here is the way to not living off the government…..
1) Stay in school
If you don’t need it, don’t buy it. No one here needs a 42” or larger 1080p HD TV. Put the $1500 in the bank and help put your child through college in 18 years.
2) Don’t get pregnant. No glove, no love.
3) Marry the baby daddy/mama if you do.
4) Don’t do drugs or alcohol.
5) Learn a skill (plumbing, carpentry, welding, electrican or go to school for a math/science related degeree (engineering, etc).
6) Work hard. Do more than just show up and expect a paycheck for being special. The real world is not like high school and your mama is not your boss.
7) If you don’t have it, don’t spend it.
That should have been an 8 ) , not sunglass dude.
Perhaps marginally. I use airports for work, but then again that is priced into my airfare tax. My family has two cars, so I guess we use the roads and bridges more than a family with one or none. But to the magnitude of our taxes? I doubt it. My federal tax bill will be over $100K this year. 6 years ago, my salary wasn’t even that high. I am using many times more government resources today? No. Perhaps 5, 10% more. But not as much as the difference in my tax bill would suggest.
Wow, I guess your workforce wasn’t educated in any public schools. Your workforce doesn’t use the roads to get to work. Police don’t patrol past your business. The fire department wouldn’t put a fire out that started in your business. I could go on but I think I’ve made my point. And please don’t misunderstand, I don’t hate the parasitic wealthy elite class. Society needs successful people and our system is set up so that those who can exploit the working class best, are the most successful. I admire your talent. To be able to derive your lifestyle from the work and efforts of others is a rare talent. And Really?, you want people to stop living off of the government but your first suggestion is stay in school. For the vast majority of us that would be public school. Seems a bit contradictory. Try this though, at your business, ask yourself how government has made it possible for you to succeed. If your honest with yourself, you will see the debt you owe to our society. That’s the society we all live and work within. Good for you, take a vacation to Cancun or whereever it is the wealthy elite go to nowadays. Think of me when your down there and know I’m wishing you the best. But when you come back, try and remember if it wasn’t for me and the rest of us unwashed common folk, you wouldn’t have that nice tan.
The real solution is a flat tax. Years ago, I worked in another country. The first 17% was automatically taken out for taxes. No end of year statements, no deductions, no hassle. Everyone paid the same 17%, so everyone paid their fair share.
The only people I could see opposing this would be the extreme wealthy who don’t pay taxes on their real wealth anyway, and would not want to start anytime soon.
Good list, Really. I would just add two:
9) Surround yourself with good people. Whether you are in academia, business, medicine, or whatever, the people who you spend the most time with rub off on you, in terms of ideas, drive, and ethics.
10) Don’t be complacent. If you are in a career, job, or with an employer who is not treating you right, find a different employer or start your own thing. The perverbial win/win is out there, all over the place. You have to find it, it usually don’t come to you.
Oh, and for people who flunk out on #’s 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, they can all be remedied. Drug problems or having a baby earlier than you wanted is a bump in the road, not a dead end.
Really?
“1) Stay in school
2) Don’t get pregnant. No glove, no love.
3) Marry the baby daddy/mama if you do.
4) Don’t do drugs or alcohol.
5) Learn a skill (plumbing, carpentry, welding, electrican or go to school for a math/science related degeree (engineering, etc).
6) Work hard. Do more than just show up and expect a paycheck for being special. The real world is not like high school and your mama is not your boss.
7) If you don’t have it, don’t spend it.
If you don’t need it, don’t buy it. No one here needs a 42” or larger 1080p HD TV. Put the $1500 in the bank and help put your child through college in 18 years.”
What about those of us who have done all those things, but do not like trickle-down economics, and did not like the direction of our country under Republican rule? What about us, Really?
Are you presenting your “list” so that you can teach Liberals a lesson?
I’m just saying, Really,most of the Liberals I know raise families, work hard, pay their bills, and are responsible people.
Of course, Republicans are the ultimate “take no responsibility for any mistakes” party, so I’m not suprised at your delusional mischaracterizations.
Richard -
My heart goes out to you. You obviously have a “they’re screwing me” complex, a real us vs. them mentality. It seems as if you view every entreprenuer as the operator of a Ponzi scheme, and that if one has become wealthy they’ve done so by doing harm upon others.
It is tough to rationalize with a person who has as negative a worldview as you. All I will say, Richard, is that I’m going to pray for you.
DantheMan:
“It is tough to rationalize with a person who has as negative a worldview as you. All I will say, Richard, is that I’m going to pray for you.”
I know, DantheMan, it’s hard to fathom there are Americans who disagree with you on issues. It sucks that they exist.
Maybe if you pray hard enough, people who disagree with you on issues will disappear.
Go ahead DtM, but since I’m an atheist, don’t know it’ll help. As far as the rest, you couldn’t be more wrong. I’ve had a wonderful career and am looking forward to the last few years left to me. I am irritated though who have achieved success and think they owe no one. I get irritated by those who profit off of the labors of others without any recognition of their efforts. Really, I find those people beneath contempt. My success in life as come solely because of those who helped me along the way. My own small abilities have just been a small contribution. Methinks you think too highly of yourself and I’m not the one you should be praying for.
DtM — As I stated earlier, It sounds like Richard might be happier somewhere more to his belief system, and I’m being serious. Maybe Venezuela with Chavez. Beautiful country right on the Caribbean and life just as he dreams about.
Nitro — I don’t think much has changed in America. We have two parties with two different philosophies. Most say it is healthy. I don’t mind, although I spend time here expressing view points that are like talking to a wall. I’m sure you feel the same way. The dems have control and can re-shape America going forward. Don’t expect us conservatives to roll over in a Kumbaya fashion because Obama is “the one”. I don’t think that is the way the left has played the game the last 8 years. We have philosophical differences on what will be the best path for our country. No?
Richard perhaps some assumptions are being made about you just because of your political views.
For example, some of my clients are quite Liberal, especially the clients I have that are architects. There is one in particular that is looking very forward to the stimulus bill being passed, a company that had over 300 responses to an ad for a new designer two weeks ago. The stimulus bill will directly create jobs at this firm.
Judging from some the tone of the commenters here, these Liberals, these Architects and Designers, highly paid professionals, people raising families and being responsible, are believed not to exist.
SOme people pretend the only Liberals out there are irresponsible losers who want to suck on the government teat. They couldn’t be more wrong.
CMan, I agree.
Well said. Maybe mutual respect will make a bit of a comeback down the road.
What I see happening nationally and on the cable news, and radio, could hardly be called mutual respect.
We’re stuck playing the hand we’re dealt with on the Left too, as far as Pelosi or Reid goes. I think both of them have failed, and they by no means represent the future of the Democratic party.
There are others who have fought the good fight over the years who are shall we say are “moving forward”. Obama represents them a lot more than some of the relic Democrats.
I’m just glad Hillary didn’t win, or McCain. Obama turns the page on both of them.
“Methinks you think too highly of yourself and I’m not the one you should be praying for.”
Thanks. I’m a big fan of Marcus Aurelius, and he advises to always examine your own flaws before calling out someone else’s. I will heed your advice.
I don’t think all that highly of myself. I have some confidence, sure. But there is alot that I could play the “woe is me” bit on, but I don’t. I didn’t have money growing up. I left college with more student loan debt than my first year’s salary. My parents both died while I was a very young man. My health isn’t perfect. My roof gets ice dams.
OK, so that last one is a little mundane, but my point is that you can either look at the world and see abundance, or you can look at it and see scarcity. Not only scarcity, but that someone is srewing you because they are taking yours. I’ve never seen it that way, even when I was the guy with massive debt and a pittance fo an income.
I guess what upsets me is that I’m paying a hefty tax this year, probably close to $150,000 when it is all said and done. I take normal deductions like everyone else, my home mortgage and my exemptions, but I’m paying the full top rate on many of those dollars.
And what do I get for dutifully paying $150,000 to my government, per the IRS tax code? A bunch of guys like you telling me that I’m not paying my fair share and claiming that I’ve only gotten to where I am because I’ve been a leech.
Again, I don’t expect sympathy. I’m doing just fine. But for being someone paying that much in taxes, I guessed I’m shocked when I’m vilified. Vilify the guy making $10 million who pays no tax.
If there is one thing I LOVE about this country, it is this statistic: 40% of the very top earners, according to the IRS, were not top earners a year ago. This is the first year in that category, and very well might be their last. In fact, a tiny percentage of Americans are the “wealthy elite” year after year. That is awesome and encouraging! There is class mobility in America! In 5 years, it won’t be me in the top bracket, it will be someone else who had a good idea and worked their butt off! It will be another guy who took matters into his own hands and created a service to enhance our lives! I love this country.
another guy who took matters into his own hands and created a service to enhance our lives!
You forgot the small step of hiring employees to turn that great idea into reality. The small step of getting highly educated people with a work ethic found no where else on the planet. Thank society and government for that.
“Thank society and government for that.”
Oh, I do. Every day. And I think 20-35% of everyone’s paycheck, when aggregated among every worker in the country, should be more than enough to fund it, and fund it well.
Really? we’re about enter the stage where hard work doesn’t matter, unless we help the middle class. Then we’ll talk. Plus you make me nervous with your threats. I thought you were fun, but really you are just a bully.
DantheMan, our workforce numbers are the reason we’re going to have trouble with some of our social safety nets.
Did anyone read that the unemployment safety net is fraying? Our friends haven’t received help and so I knew there were issues. Uh oh…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29084715/