Earlier this month, the man who drove his car into a St. Paul Planned Parenthood was sentenced to time in jail, and the state is pushing to have him committed for life, on account of mental illness.
While there has been some speculation about an increase in clinic violence due to Barack Obama taking office, this should be clear: there is nothing political about what happened this morning, and there is nothing political about the man who ran his car into Planned Parenthood this January. These acts are nothing short of terrorism, intended to intimidate, harass and kill licensed professionals and their patients who are seeking medical help.
I will post about any vigils to be held in Minnesota, as I hear about them. In the meantime, consider donating to any of the fantastic clinics in this state, or Medical Students for Choice, a non-profit supporting ob/gyn medical students.
I seem to recall a lot of commotion from the Republicans in the Minnesota House this year about the Homeland Security report on “Rightwing Extremism”…I don’t hear them talking now, privately there are a lot of conservatives cheering this assasination.
Not true. A bunch of crazy lunatics might be cheering this assassination, just as a bunch of different crazy lunatics would’ve cheered an assassination of George W. Bush. But anyone of sanity finds this entirely reprehensible.
I don’t know anybody who would have cheered Bush’s assassination, and I know a lot of people who absolutely despise Bush.
Sean2,
“as a bunch of different crazy lunatics would’ve cheered an assassination of George W. Bush.”
Such as what groups? Who would have cheered Bush’s assasination, Sean2?
A quick online search will yields hundreds of liberal (or apolitical) blogs that called for the assassinations of Bush and Cheney, that called for bombing the white house, etc. The most telling incident was after the assassination attempt on Dick Cheney in Pakistan. The disgusting and distasteful responses (the most notorious which came as responses on the Huffington Post) were indicative of some opinions. But, as I criticized then, those rogue comments were not representative of the Left.
Dem101 -
“Privately there are a lot of conservatives cheering this assasination (sp)”
Truly a disgraceful, speculative, and sad thing to say. A man was killed. Why does it have to turn into a Dem v. Repub issue?
Have a little perspective and resist the urge to criticize the other side.
You a-holes turned all of 9-11 into Dem vs. Republican; us vs. them; with us or against us; patriot vs. traitor, so don’t even start
Stay classy, Alec
Alec -
I have no idea who you are talking to when you say “you a-holes.” I am not a Republican, so you can’t be talking about me.
The suspect’s name is SCOTT ROEDER. This is the final comment on Daily Kos: “So a bombmaker, tax protester, member of the “sovereignity” movement, anti-abortion zealot and Operation Rescue member: the arrested suspect manages to fit every stereotype of right-wing militia teabagger.”
Randall Terry, Operation Rescue Founder, put out a press release stating more of a concern for Obama’s reaction than for Tiller’s murder.
I think that says it all. Just wonder if he or any of his groups were listed in that Homeland Security Report…?!
Dem101 -
I’m not sure that “alot of conservatives are cheering this assasination.”
A first degree murder which happens to also be a hate crime is nothing to cheer about, regardless of ideology.
DantheMan,
If you look at the comments of many of the Kansas news blogs, there is plenty of cheering going on from some bloggers.
I don’t think they are Liberals, DantheMan.
Believe me…there are a lot of conservatives putting out the obligatory “we decry this violence” and secretly thrilled that a ‘mass murderer’ like Tiller was killed…just listen to the words of Randall Terry, not a lot of sorrow there.
Nope, just concern about how Obama will react to the actions of someone who listens to Terry’s rhetoric.
So - Randall Terry = “a lot of conservatives?”
I don’t think so. You’re extrapolating to try and make a political point. Nice try.
Every time the anti choice folks say things along the lines of “We condemn this killing, BUT (that’s the key, there is always a “but”) this man was a murderer and reaped what he sowed” one can’t help but reach that conclusion. The stribs comments on the story are filled with people saying just that. “I don’t support killing anyone, but this guy got what he deserved”
You guys realize you are making asses out of yourselves? Those of you putting words in the mouths of conservatives?
And who the hell is Randall Terry? I guess my next stop needs to be wikipedia. If the guy is speaking on my behalf (according to you) I guess I need to find out who he is and what he believes.
This is reply to the SeanH post at 8:16am -
I’m talking about the quote of “a lot of conservatives.” You call them “anti choice?” Don’t conflate the two - lest we start talking theological conservatives (which I’m not) and economic conservatives (which I am).
So, because two message boards have quacks saying despicable things about a murdered man, you extrapolate that to an entire collection of political thought? We’ve got to be beyond the point where 10 people who have a stupid viewpoint can be held up by the opposing viewpoint to be the “face” of the issue. If you claim things are that black or white you’re just being naive or can’t appreciate the diversity of thought that exists within political theory. No wonder both sides, Republican and Democrat, are so easy to pigeonhole, predict, and ignore in political debate. I can predict your response before you’ve said it, and therefore, I have no reason to listen to you or argue with you.
DTM — Randall Terry is the founder of Operation Rescue, and if you remember a few years back was up here in our state doing what he does and getting a lot of press for his protests. He is well known.
As for Scott Roeder, perhaps all of his friends and associates should be water boarded to find out what they knew about his behavior and plans. Seems like a lot of folks knew he was dangerous and a wing nut, and sat back and did nothing to stop the train wreck from happening. After all, what is terror?? And who might the next target and assassin be?!
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/69151.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2261656/posts
Plenty of evidence that republicans support this kind of crime.
The reckless comments of a few are not representative of the Republican Party. Just as the reckless dozens on the left who call for Bush’s and Cheney’s assassination (you just need to search google) are not representative of the Democrat Party.
“you just need to search google”
Actually, that was YOUR assertion. It is, thus, YOUR responsibility to provide proof to support your assertion. It is not beholden upon others to prove you wrong until you make your case.
“The reckless comments of a few are not representative of the Republican Party.”
That assertion was not made. It is a straw man, and I’m not going to address it.
Here’s one example from the HuffPo comment section, which is equvialent to the evidence you cite, except that the HuffPo is much more mainstream than the Free Republic. This is an archived PDF of comments because the comment section was closed when they were found to be distasteful: http://hotairarchives.com/video/2007-02/HuffPoCheneyTalibanThread.pdf
I remember talking with one of my liberal friends in the 90’s, after Reagan’s Alzheimer’s and Dementia was disclosed. My friend said “serves him right — he had it coming after everything he did.”. I just looked at him, thinking “can’t you even separate politics from your feelings for other humans?”
I knew he didn’t speak for all Democrats, but I’ll never forget that comment.
Same applies here, I guess.
You cite one comment reel, and deduce that there exists “Plenty of evidence that republicans support this kind of crime.” My statement that “reckless comments of a few are not representative of the Republican Party” is spot on in response to your egregious attack. If you are scared to defend your words, don’t post them.
I offered evidence. I never said they were “representative of the republican party” though O’Reilly is indeed representative (in fact, a representative on national media) and he has been calling the doctor a “baby killer” for years.
“I remember talking with one of my liberal friends in the 90’s, after Reagan’s Alzheimer’s and Dementia was disclosed. My friend said ‘serves him right — he had it coming after everything he did.’”
Ehhhh. You’re extending a generalization from one anecdote? Poor form, sir.
So one person says something to me in a discussion, and it is an anecdote that shouldn’t be relied upon.
But another person says something, this time on a blog, and it is somehow more official and speaks for more people.
Note to my friend: Sign up for a free blog. It takes 2 minutes, and the same comments will suddenly be “cite-worthy”.
IT’S THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Only a RepubliCON would continue to be disrespectful of a party identity.
Maybe now all of those righteous conservatives will be willing to have a real conversation about the HMS report that came out about right wing extremists, instead of narrowing the conversation down to party politics. They all ignored 2 facts: the Bush Administration commissioned the report, and the left wing extremists have been studied as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/01/george-tiller-murder-prom_n_209701.html
Of course people like sean2 just like to fuel the fires with mean spirited rhetoric and a very disrespectful tone, causing people like Scott Roeder to think that the evil acts they purport will be acceptable.
Mean-spirited rhetoric?
Disrespectful tone?
Care to point out either?
just as a bunch of different crazy lunatics would’ve cheered an assassination of George W. Bush.
A fictional subset of imaginary “democrats” made up by you, and…yeah, that’s crap.
I didn’t call them democrats. I cited an example of lunatics expressing support of an assassination attempt on Dick Cheney.
HuffPo: http://michellemalkin.com/2007/02/27/assassination-chic-cheney-edition/
Democratic Underground: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2747651
DailyKos: http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3412
They are not imaginary. Crazy lunatics exist on both sides. I’ve presented some from the left. The Tiller murder brought out some from the right. Neither are representative.
As for a previous comment, O’Reilly will respond to Tiller’s murder on his show tonight. He is not a Republican. He is not a representative of the Republican party.
“Of course people like sean2 just like to fuel the fires with mean spirited rhetoric and a very disrespectful tone, causing people like Scott Roeder to think that the evil acts they purport will be acceptable.”
SWDem .. care to explain my alleged “mean spirited rhetoric” and “very disrespectful tone,” and the logic that it allegedly caused a murderer to feel his “evil acts” were “acceptable.”
Are you trying to instigate me in this murder? Should I expect to be arrested?
Since some people are either too lazy to do their own homework or really ignorant about the extensive climate of hate-speech that incites murder out there, please check out these two links, which it took me all of 2 minutes to find. Dont’ try to pretend it’s not out there. That makes you look either supremely ignorant or incredibly hypocritical.
History of violence directed at health clinics for women since 1973, including but not limited to assassinations: (since passage of Roe v. Wade)
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_violence.html
Record of people celebrating Tiller’s murder on Twitter yesterday (a small sample, but quite representative, not even the comments sections of blogs)
http://carnalnation.com/content/7628/3/tweets-hate-crazy-right-twitters-about-murder-dr-tiller
You claim the twitter updates are “a small sample, but quite representative.” Representative of who? The only person one is representative of is himself. The few dozens tweets that are posted are representative of a crazy faction of the anti-abortion extreme who have hijacked the pro-life message.
However, these extremes exist on both sides of the aisle, and are not representative of Republicans or Democrats. As cited above, the reaction of the Left to the assassination attempt of Dick Cheney: http://hotairarchives.com/video/2007-02/HuffPoCheneyTalibanThread.pdf
Check out Redstate or FreeRepublic or any other conservative blog and you will find a great deal of ambivalence about this murder, in fact some cases praise for this. If you truly listen to the hate preached by O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck…I mean truly listen to what they are saying this is not far-fetched
Just went to RedState…. I don’t see alot of ambivalence about the murder. Sure, I don’t see alot of eulogizing the abortion doctor either, but to disagree with what someone did with their life’s work doesn’t mean you think it is fine he was murdered. If David Strom, for example, was gunned down, we’d expect that you’d condemn the murder but nobody would expect you to say he was a great man.
Here is a quote from Redstate today. While I don’t know if this doctor “needed to be stopped”, if I did I would agree with this wholeheartedly: “the job of stopping men like him remains with the democratic process and with peaceful protest and persuasion; the way of the domestic terrorist is the way of madness no matter the cause.”
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/31/tiller/
Bill O’Reilly’s 29 episodes regarding the “baby killer.”
Again, there are two issues here;
1) Do people support this doctor’s work? Some did, some didn’t. Freedom of speech.
2) Do people support this doctor’s murder? Only fringe extremists, contrary to what has been posted here.
As far as Roe v Wade is concerned, the decision has survived 23 years of Republican Presidents as compared to only 12 years under Democrats. It came out of a Supreme Court with 7 Republican appointees. Since it has survived for 36 years now, isn’t it considered to be “super-law”?
Furthermore, many opponents of Roe would not be satisfied with merely seeing it overturned and the issue returned to the states. The Republican Party platform effectively calls for a litmus test for judges: Will they rule abortion illegal in all 50 states no matter what the people want? Now that would be judicial activism with a vengeance. (taken from Michael Kingsley)
I would have so much more respect for the anti-choice folks if they cared more about babies that are already here. How about a real conversation about birth control, prevention and safety nets for unwed mothers so that they do not feel that their only option is to have an abortion? How about reducing the emphasis on male sexual enhancement drugs, and increasing the emphasis on responsible behavior? How about strengthening the laws for fathers to take more personal and financial responsibility for their children? How about those high divorce rates in the southern, republican, evangelical states? How about fully funding special education to take care of all of those children with special needs? How about a fully funded safety net for all of those grown up children who cannot contribute to society, but who need to be taken care of since they are here?
How about those anti-choice groups taking more of a responsibility to distance themselves and decry any calls for violence against people who oppose their views all of the time, and not just when a wing nut they knew about but ignored follows through on threats and extreme ideology?
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I would have so much more respect for the anti-choice folks if they cared more about babies that are already here.
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Indeed.
Why is it that the pro life folks believe they are the ones chosen to decide WHICH folks should be allowed to live… and WHICH should die? Isn’t that exactly what they accused the doctor of doing?
I hope that this case is prosecuted all the way up to those people using incendiary speech that causes this kind of lawlessness. Randall Terry and Bill O’Reilly are outdoing themselves as terrorist sympathizers.