Comments on: Halfway to history http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/ Tracking Minnesota Politics Since 2005 Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:05:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: DantheMan http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46521 DantheMan Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:43:13 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46521 I simply believe the politics of this all is fascinating, as I said in my original post. I simply believe the politics of this all is fascinating, as I said in my original post.

]]> By: Richard674 http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46520 Richard674 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:38:15 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46520 So, you don't believe poor women get abortions or you don't believe women will die as a result of not being able to pay for a safe abortion? So, you don't believe poor women get abortions or you don't believe women will die as a result of not being able to pay for a safe abortion?

]]> By: DantheMan http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46518 DantheMan Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:03:02 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46518 Your stereotypes and biases never cease to amaze me, Richard. Your stereotypes and biases never cease to amaze me, Richard.

]]> By: Richard674 http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46514 Richard674 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:59:23 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46514 Yes fascinating, poor women will be dying soon at the hands of backalley abortionists with coat hangers and bike wheel spokes. Meanwhile wealthy women will get a weekend "away" at the spa. I would definitely call that fascinating. Yes fascinating, poor women will be dying soon at the hands of backalley abortionists with coat hangers and bike wheel spokes. Meanwhile wealthy women will get a weekend "away" at the spa. I would definitely call that fascinating.

]]> By: DantheMan http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46503 DantheMan Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:59:05 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46503 This is one of the more fascinating policy initiatives I've seen in my lifetime from a pure politics standpoint. Pelosi was able to narrowly pass this bill after the amendment which enjoyed even broader support was passed. The Senate Finance Committee, meanwhile, passed a health coverage reform bill that is palatable to moderates like me. Harry Reid, then, ignores many key elements of that Finance Committee work and says he'll introduce something that is more liberal, including a Public Option. And here we are. There is no doubt that the final bill will need to take a step toward the middle in order to garner Senate support. Will it include the Public Option? The Millionaire Tax? Abortion funding? Allow for state interpretation? We shall see. Fascinating times. This is one of the more fascinating policy initiatives I've seen in my lifetime from a pure politics standpoint. Pelosi was able to narrowly pass this bill after the amendment which enjoyed even broader support was passed. The Senate Finance Committee, meanwhile, passed a health coverage reform bill that is palatable to moderates like me. Harry Reid, then, ignores many key elements of that Finance Committee work and says he'll introduce something that is more liberal, including a Public Option. And here we are.

There is no doubt that the final bill will need to take a step toward the middle in order to garner Senate support. Will it include the Public Option? The Millionaire Tax? Abortion funding? Allow for state interpretation? We shall see.

Fascinating times.

]]> By: DantheMan http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46496 DantheMan Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:40:18 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46496 I personally am pro-choice. Let's not confuse personal rights with what our taxpayers should be asked to fund. Besides, my comment is more on how I desire politics to work. If a 220-215 vote on health reform is "the will of the people", than a 240-194 amendment most certainly is the will of the people. I'd hate for something that is so important to many to be redlined in a committee. I personally am pro-choice. Let's not confuse personal rights with what our taxpayers should be asked to fund. Besides, my comment is more on how I desire politics to work.

If a 220-215 vote on health reform is "the will of the people", than a 240-194 amendment most certainly is the will of the people. I'd hate for something that is so important to many to be redlined in a committee.

]]> By: lojasmo http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46495 lojasmo Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:08:49 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46495 @ DtM "I certainly hope that the Stupak amendment -- which garned significantly more support than the House health reform bill itself -- isn't just thrown aside in conference like a minor detail." I thought, like the majority of Americans, you were pro-choice. At least that's what you have said on multiple occasions. You have also said that you think representatives should represent their constituents. Since a majority of Americans are pro-choice, shouldn't they jettison Stupak, definately? @ DtM

"I certainly hope that the Stupak amendment — which garned significantly more support than the House health reform bill itself — isn't just thrown aside in conference like a minor detail."

I thought, like the majority of Americans, you were pro-choice. At least that's what you have said on multiple occasions.

You have also said that you think representatives should represent their constituents. Since a majority of Americans are pro-choice, shouldn't they jettison Stupak, definately?

]]> By: Steve http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46493 Steve Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:58:20 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46493 At least regarding the "rape/incest" portion of the waiver, most abortion-right-supporters I know regard having that waiver as worse than not having one, because 1) the waiver's unlikely to actually be given out an enable a woman to get an abortion, 2) the waiver makes restrictions on the basic abortion right seem tolerable and thus more likely to be passed, and 3) it'll make it even harder to give rape victims the treatment they need and rapists the punishment they deserve. 3's the big problem with the whole "waiver" idea. A woman wants the waiver, ok, how's she get it? Hearings to prove she was raped? Ah, that would be a hearing in the same court system where slandering a woman by calling her a liar who's making it up and/or wanted it is a routine - and routinely successful - defense to rape charges? Oh, and a court system that eats up time that keeps the pregnancy going, adding to the difficulty (and, under Roe/Casey/Carhart, legal prohibitability) of performing the abortion each day? And it's a waiver that gives the impression of there being a "tangible benefit" to lying about rape, so that now rape victims can be dismissed with an "Oh, she's just making it up to try and get an abortion"? Yeah, lot of good that waiver'll do. Assuming judges are willing to give them out to begin with. At least regarding the "rape/incest" portion of the waiver, most abortion-right-supporters I know regard having that waiver as worse than not having one, because 1) the waiver's unlikely to actually be given out an enable a woman to get an abortion, 2) the waiver makes restrictions on the basic abortion right seem tolerable and thus more likely to be passed, and 3) it'll make it even harder to give rape victims the treatment they need and rapists the punishment they deserve.

3's the big problem with the whole "waiver" idea. A woman wants the waiver, ok, how's she get it? Hearings to prove she was raped? Ah, that would be a hearing in the same court system where slandering a woman by calling her a liar who's making it up and/or wanted it is a routine - and routinely successful - defense to rape charges? Oh, and a court system that eats up time that keeps the pregnancy going, adding to the difficulty (and, under Roe/Casey/Carhart, legal prohibitability) of performing the abortion each day? And it's a waiver that gives the impression of there being a "tangible benefit" to lying about rape, so that now rape victims can be dismissed with an "Oh, she's just making it up to try and get an abortion"?

Yeah, lot of good that waiver'll do. Assuming judges are willing to give them out to begin with.

]]> By: Alec http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46492 Alec Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:25:41 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46492 Richard, The problem with being anti-abortion is that there can be zero room for a waiver. If you believe that abortion is killing a human life, then how can you possibly say it is okay to kill some "people" but not others? On the other hand, if you allow for a waiver, then you are admitting that a zygote is not really a person yet, so then all abortions should be legal. Richard,
The problem with being anti-abortion is that there can be zero room for a waiver. If you believe that abortion is killing a human life, then how can you possibly say it is okay to kill some "people" but not others? On the other hand, if you allow for a waiver, then you are admitting that a zygote is not really a person yet, so then all abortions should be legal.

]]> By: Richard674 http://mnpublius.com/2009/11/halfway-to-history/#comment-46490 Richard674 Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:05:22 +0000 http://mnpublius.com/?p=7139#comment-46490 In the coverage of the Stupak amendment, I didn't see any waver for women who've been raped or pregnant by incest or whose lives are in danger. Did I miss something or was that necessary waver not included? In the coverage of the Stupak amendment, I didn't see any waver for women who've been raped or pregnant by incest or whose lives are in danger. Did I miss something or was that necessary waver not included?

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