For instance, take this video of Franken speaking out against Republican talking points on health care [courtesy of Huffington Post]. A clearly frustrated Franken struck back at Sen John Thune’s (R-SD) ridiculous contention that health reform would institute five years of taxes with no benefits being offered.
“We are entitled to our own opinions. We’re not entitled to our own facts,” Franken repeated after the back-and-forth. “The fact is benefits kick in on day one, and the large majority of benefits kick in on day one. And we shouldn’t be standing up here with charts that say the exact opposite.”
That’s a refrain I’ve been repeating often myself. The whole video is worth a watch:
Actually the specific point made by Thune is that while the tax increases start more or less immediately the vast majority of the spending based benefits do not start until 2014. Thune then makes the point that the CBO states that 99% of spending benefits do not start until 2014. This accounting shift is what makes the bill appear to reduce the deficit. The regulatory changes that start immediatly were not part of Thune's argument because they do not greatly effect the budget issues of which he was speaking. The point Thune was making seems to e completely true. Franken was arguing either because he didn't understand the point being made or because he wanted to send up a B.S. smokescreen. You might be better informed if you spent the couple minutes needed to watch the entire exchange and not just the edited sections posted at Huffington.
Is the CBO spreading misinformation too now? Where will the vast right wing conspiracy of big business shills end? That's just the CBO's opinion anyway, those aren't facts.
HUH? Thune totally owns Franken. Sorry Al, you aren't on Saturday Night Live anymore. ALL the tax increases begin before ALL the spending begins. It's the only way they can falsely claim deficit reduction.
By the way, I LOVE having Al Franken being the face/voice of the Democrat party. Please post more!
SOME benefits will kick in right away, others will hold back.
Here's the best run down I've seen (yes, I know it older, but it has a lot of information)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM...
Point is Thune was speaking to cost, his whole point was to cost. If membership to something is $100 a year that's $1200 over 10 years, if you don't enroll the first four years you can say your membership cost you $800 over 10 years and you didn't technically lie, or if you began paying right away but didn't enroll for four years you could say it cost you $80 a year over 10 years and you still haven't technically lied.
Look I don't know how many benefits start right away it could be 80% of them, if it is they are inexpensive ones, because what I do know is 99% of the expenditures don't begin until 2014. Thune tried to politely make Franken aware that he didn't understand his point was to cost not to when benefits began, of course even without all the facts Franken was able to deduce that Thune had acted stupidly.
NorthernMNer - Link to FrankenFail is no longer active.
Oops. I found it re-posted. My mistake.
http://www.alaskajournal.com/stories/120409/bus_6...
From Daily Kos -
In our weekly poll last week, 80 percent of Republicans are definitely or probably going to vote. For Democrats, it was just 55 percent. Those aren’t bloggers or political junkies, it’s rank and file Democrats, and they’re seeing no reason to turn out and vote. Those voters were promised some pretty basic items, and they delivered big for the Democratic Party — super majorities and a White House landslide. Democrats pissed away their mandate with a series of corporate bailouts, but nothing for main street. The signature Democratic policy item — health care — has been hijacked by Lieberman, Lincoln, Baucus, Snowe, and Ben Nelson, to the detriment of pretty much everyone else, all with the full support of a “bipartisan” obsessed White House.
I’m going to vote, and you guys are too. We’re not the problem. Heck, in the generic congressional ballot, Democrats still have a decent lead, 37-33. The problem are the marginally engaged Democrats, and without them, we’re going to get creamed next year. According to that latest poll, only 39 percent of 18-29 year olds will definitely or probably vote. 39 percent. And why should they? They’re likely to get stuck with an expensive mandate to reward insurance companies by purchasing their overpriced, under-delivering products. African Americans are only 32 percent definitely or probably likely to turn out, and 42 percent for Latinos. While 61 percent of men — who skew heavily Republican — are definitely or probably going to turn out, that number is just 51 percent for women — who skew heavily Democratic.
See the point? No one is arguing that Democrats shouldn’t turn out. We’re terrified that they won’t. And whether they vote or not is dependent on what Democrats can deliver in DC. Right now, it’s not much of anything, and if this keeps up, Democrats are in deep shit.
I would just add that I did some reading on this tonight, watched the video clip of Franken again and the video of Thune's rebuttal. KH sums it up accurately. The CBO says that 99% of benefits will not be paid out until starting in 2014. 1% will be paid out on Day 1.
Franken evidently believes 1% is a "Large majority". Hmmm.. let's say the CBO really screwed up and it actually is 5%. Still not a "large majority" in my book. 50.1% would be a majority. I'd say you'd need, say, 60%+ to constitute a "large majority".
So Franken caught Thune on a technicality, and while doing so exaggerated quite dramatically himself. I'd say this that one the facts, this one is a draw. And on the civility scale, advantage goes to Thune.
Our esteemed Senator Franken looks like an ass in this exchange. I haven't seen too many clips that remind me of Franken the entertainer so far, but this is certainly one.
Senator, get your facts straight, make your point, and sit down. That was embarrasing.
Franken just showed us all why he is unqualified to be a US Senator. Mincing words over whether or not 1% of the benefits kick in on day one is utterly ridiculous. The people who supported Franken should be embarrassed.
I went back and watched the whole thing yet again. I kept seeing people here and at Talking Points Memo saying that Franken owned Thune in this exchange. What was I missing?
In Thune's original speech, he said, and I quote, that "many of the benefits" would not begin until 2014. Accurate.
Franken then got up with a red face and said Thune told people "none of the benefits" would begin until 2014. Inaccurate.
Franken then said that a "large majority" of the benefits begin in 2011. Inaccurate.
Thune summed it up by saying that there is a four year gap between the revenues and many of the benefits. Accurate.
Franken scores some style points. I remember saying that about Jim Traficant, too. But as far as accuracy, the score is Thune 2, Franken 0.
An interesting critique of our distinguished Senator from Minnesota:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/73417-franken-...