The blogosphere — both right and left — has been blowing up since late afternoon yesterday, when Al Franken objected to giving Joe Lieberman an extra minute or two to conclude his remarks. Republicans are furious, Democrats are thrilled, but the whole thing really just isn’t a big deal, despite John McCain’s efforts to make it one.
Just like a lot of liberals who have been burned by Lieberman, I can’t say I didn’t relish him being put in his place, albeit on a very minor matter. But according to Franken, this had nothing to do with Lieberman. The Senate is obviously very much pressed for time trying to complete the health care vote, and Franken was asked to keep things moving. So he did.
And that would be the end of the story, but then John McCain, who has quite frankly become a huge blowhard, gets up and rails about “what’s happening to this body.” Senator McCain, this is when you’ve chosen to make your stand? You know, the only reason these strict time limits are necessary is because of Republican Senators like Judd Gregg, who wrote a manual on how to obstruct the health care debate, and Tom Coburn, who wasted hours by requiring the text of an obviously-doomed amendment to be read in its entirety for hours. Maybe you should try having a talk with them.
Besides, the Senate seems to be doing pretty well on comity, given the state of things in the House:
Once this starts happening in the Senate, McCain can complain. But somehow, when it happens, I get the feeling it will not be the Democrats doing this to the Republicans.
Oh noez! Al Franken objected to letting droopy drone on for an eleventh (probably intolerable) minute. The earth is ending!
Angry Al strikes again. The comity of the Senate is now crushed. We need Dick Cheney to come to the floor and tell Al to "go fuck" himself. That will fix things.
Actually, Dick should probably just call you.
I'd prefer a visit in person, thanks.
The first comment?
Franken was rude, out of line, and unable to recognize a distinction between himself and Mr. Leiberman….Mr. Lieberman has earned the respect of the members of Congress, and thus should have been shown it, Franken has earned…to date…nothing. It's like telling your Grandpa he can't say grace at the Christmas dinner.
Just so we are all clear: Lieberman RAN OUT OF TIME. He wasn't shut down or shut out. He just ran out of his 10 minute allotment.
Can you qualify how Lieberman has earned the respect of the members of congress? Thanks. Learn to count, also.
There is no distinction between Lieberman and Franken Don. Both are Senators. Both were elected by their states. Under your dysfunctional cronyist utopia Al should bow down to a senior senator. Our Senator has just as much value as theirs. It's like stopping grandpa from filibustering Christmas supper so you can actually eat.
Yes, there is a distinction. Yes we do value seniority. Yes we do respect seniority. (saying otherwise would really piss off all the the tenured teachers around here, eh?) Yes Franken should have been more polite and respectful. Yes Franken should lose his smuggy demeanor. Yes … Franken…..for all intensive purposes….should have yielded the extra minute.
Filibuster? LOL! One extra minute? LOL! Where's my "drama llama" picture?
Alec, are you really a girl?
what kind of sexist question is that?
Don,
The expression is "all intents and purposes" not "all intensive purposes". Your wear your ignorance well.
Are you really an ignorant fuck? No, wait…that's been proven demonstrably true. Never mind, failed political candidate, Don Huizenga.
There is one distinction. Lieberman was shut out by his own party, ran as an independent, and won convincingly (probably because of his reputation and experience as deemed by his constituency). Franken barely won in a liberal leaning Minnesota. And, to do so, had to have the stacked left leaning machine keep counting ballots however they had to in order to find just enough votes to claim victory. All this when Democrats were winning by large margins. Other than that, yes, they're both US Senators.
Senators do not get privileges based on their electoral margins.
Is 49.71% a "decisive?"
Oh, by the way Don, nice analogy to grandpa saying grace at Christmas supper when the grandpa in question is a Jew.
Didn't mean Lieberman specifically.
"In my capacity as the senator from Alaska, I object."
Headline reads: Alaska Sen. Begich surprises colleagues while presiding over Senate
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story...
Good catch Jacob!
Franken has quickly become one of my favorite politicians in the time he's been in office.
Go Al!
I have no problem with Al shutting off a colleague, big deal. I do have a problem with the cancellation of the reading of the Sander's ammendment. Why was it so doomed? Wasn't it actually an ammendment to make a strong single payer system? Why aren't you mad that the leadership broke a long standing rule of the senate and stopped the reading of a bill that ostensibly delivered what you wanted? If all senators are equal, which I agree with and therefore accept if not necessarily approve of Al's conduct, then certainly we can also agree that every senator has the right to propose ammendments and have those ammendments considered by the senate body in the rules permitted within the senate.
You seem awfully dismissive of this. Why?
Sanders withdrew his own amendment. The leadership did not do that for him. It was his amendment to withdraw.
But it still requires unaminous consent to stop the reading. Look. I'm just messing with you guys anyway. I know you could give a damn about the rules, the constitution or anything else. You just want to pass this now and fix it later. I just wish more of you were honest about it.
"Sanders withdrew his own amendment. The leadership did not do that for him. It was his amendment to withdraw. "
Exactly.
In the loopy conservative universe, I'm sure this is some sort of conspiracy by Bernie Sanders against Bernie Sanders, proving that extreme Free Market capitalism is the most viable economic system.
Franken burned his bridge with conservatives when he assaulted their central tenet: creating your own facts. Regardless of the true nature of any of his actions, their comments here will mindlessly spin them in the most negative light possible.
It's time to throw Lieberman out of the party. He's an unprincipled whore whose willing to spread his legs for the highest bidder. Make traitor Joe an example for Ben Nelson et. al. and let's see what happens. As far as McCain moans and groans about the lack of comity in that body. Look in the mirror, fucker.
I'd take the Lieberman for Spector trade any day. The right wins that one. We'll take any others that aren't progressive enough for you too.
Charming, Richard 674. Your mother must be so proud.
Good god, people. Big tent? Give me a freakin break.
41 Senators and the majority of Americans do not like this health reform. Yet, you have a witch hunt out for 1 man. Nice.
If you are going to act like this, don't convince yourselves that your party somehow takes a political high road. You are no better than the other guys. We have two parties in this country that behave very similarly, and a whole host of independent voters who can't stand either.
I don't know who your talking to Dtm, but I'm looking for some rebalancing of power in Washington. You can play the moderate "can't we all get along" game if you want. Somehow this country took a sharp turn to the left last November, and now everyone's finally waking up and trying to do something about it before the America that existed from our beginning to now, is no longer. The contributors on this site can call me whatever they want, but the way I see it, the left has thrown down the gauntlet. So, I'm up to the challenge more than ever before to give them a run for their money. There are many out there that feel as I do. I admire your middle ground and working together attempts, but there is a takeover currently under way that people DID NOT vote for. I don't care if the independents swing left or right, or if they form their own grassroots party. I do know that the current agenda and policy are not the answers we need. If everyone swings to the progressive movement, then we will have to abide. But, I don't think that's what people want, or will vote for the next opportunity they get.
All I'm saying is that choose to side with Reid vs. choosing to side with McConnell is a completely false choice.
CMan,
I'll take the America that existed between 1935 and 1975. You know, the greatest generation and our ascendancy to the only society in history that had a majority of it's people being financially stable and comfortable. You know, when we had a healthy wealth gap. When the top tax rate hovered between 70 and 90%. When a CEO made 10 times as much as a line worker instead of 400 times. When the American dream still existed. When we still had a rational trade policy and an industrial base. You know, before REganomics destroyed our country with unsustainable debt, redistribution to the top 1%, and bubble inducing de-regulation. FDR was the most popular president of all time. That is the America we need back.
…rolling up my trousers to my thighs in order to wade through the right-wing bullshit on this post…
You''d better get some water wings to, it's getting deep.
Poor Joe, so misunderstood.
Senator Lieberman has received $448,066 in campaign contributions from the health insurance industry during his time in Washington," said David Donnelly, Public Campaign Action Fund's national campaigns director. "With so much money from the industry filling his campaign coffers, it's not surprising that Lieberman has spent the last year parroting any and all insurance industry talking points he could find."
The industry has donated $17.7 million in campaign contributions to the Senators taking part in the current debate, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics
Lieberman needs to be thrown out on his ass. Every benefit striped from him, including insurance coverage. He needs to be fucked as hard as he's fucking millions. Maybe then Nelson and Baucus and Landrieu will get a clue. The time for games has passed. Kill the present bill today then tomorrow start passing a real reform bill via reconciliation. No GOP votes. Great, those will make great campaign fodder. No Blue Cross Democratic votes? Great, replace them with candidates who value getting something done that benefits the country versus just getting re-elected. The GOP lost, let's start acting like it.
More proof that the right's full of shit and needs to STFU about this:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/18/mccain-hypocr...
Mr. DAYTON. I ask for unanimous consent that I have 30 seconds more to finish my remarks.
Mr. McCAIN. I object.
That was then. Can there be any doubt the GOP is now the party of traitors and their most fervent hope is for the failure of our country.
Is it possible, just possible, that one can not like when this courtesy for additional closing remark time is not granted, regardless of the party?
I didn't approve of McCain doing it, I didn't approve of that Senator from Alaska doing it, and I didn't approve of Franken doing it.
It is very rare for that etiquette to not be be followed, and unfortunately our Senator is now a member of the bozo club.
Not a good week for Franken. So he was humble for 6 months and now he will change? Had a feeling it might come at some point, but not this quickly.
Do the nonstop GOP lies offend you?
McCain: " I’ve been around here 20-some years. First time I’ve ever seen a member denied an extra minute or two to finish his remarks. … I just haven’t seen it before myself."
How about unprecidented levels of obstuctionism? Silly Obama hoped to have this bill out of the senate before the August recess, as this issue has been worked on for the past 50 years. I guess a three page letter of the GOP agenda of how to obstuct is okay with you while a Dem senator applying the rules as directed is highly offensive. WTF?
(and I am am rarely inclined to profanity, but much more often recently when discussing our current senate)
Franken wasn't attacking the comity of the Senate, he was attacking the comedy of the Senate. Thank you Senator Franken.
The Dems are running so scared to pass this bill before Christmas. Why, because they know they will get a earful from their constituents at the Christmas break. Yes, the people they represent, not Harry Reid or Obama. Where will they be when they need reelection in 11 months?
As long as they are working up to Christmas Eve, why not just work through the Holiday break. If we are not going to recognize Christianity in government then why should they have any time off at all?
Christianity? They are working during a Pagan holiday which was voted a new Christian holiday by the Romans when they made Christianity the state religion. Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity, whose Lord was born in the spring. I wouldn't expect you to know this because if you were educated, according to Bush's speech writer, you would be a Democrat.
I don't totally disagree. However, I don't think we would see McConnell and crew conducting business as Harry Reid is. Isn't there something very strange going on when the majority leader is writing and rewriting on a daily basis, a bill that no one has seen? Including his own party? Durbin who's #2 even let the cat out of the bag on the Senate floor a couple days ago, that he hasn't even seen it. How are we writing a bill under the cover of night and trying to gather enough votes to pass it, when it's not even complete? Something in the kitchen stinks, BIG TIME. And as you're sniffing around the kitchen, trying to find where that smell is coming from, just stop at Harry's door. If I knew I weren't awake, I'd think it was just a big nightmare.
McCain is either a liar or senile
The only thing a 90% tax bracket does is cause people to take deferred income and find tax shelters.
Several firms have taken it upon themselves to do the right thing, with no government force. That is the way it should be done. Patagonia is a great example, and Whole Foods is another. Both companies cap the CEO pay as a ratio of the line staff, pay generous bonuses to all staff for good years, and give to causes that they think are very critical. For example, Patagonia gives 1% of its top line revenue away to causes that help repair any damage they may have done through the creation of their products. That is in additional to generous giving from their profits.
With that said, I would be OK with creating a higher top tax bracket. I'd say $10 million a year would be a good level for that bracket to start at, and should allow for the opportunity to defer income to future years. That way, you get the Bill McGuires to pay a bit more, but you don't discourage the small businessperson from building and selling a value-added business.
If we're now applying this Senate rule across the board, then great. The reason this made news is because in the etiquette of the Senate, it is extremely rare to not grant someone additioanal time to wrap up their discussion.
Yes, Franken technical had every right to cut Lieberman off, but the custom of the Senate is to not do that. I respect that Franken is a candidate of "change", but this seems like a silly place to start.
At the Minneapolis airport men's room, lojasmo?