John McCain, 2009:
I’ve been around here 20-some years. First time I’ve ever seen a member denied an extra minute or two to finish his remarks. … I just haven’t seen it before myself. And I don’t like it. And I think it harms the comity of the Senate not to allow one of our members at least a minute. I’m sure that time is urgent here, but I doubt that it would be that urgent.
Really, you’ve never seen it? That’s funny, because here’s John McCain, 2002:
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator’s time has expired.
Mr. DAYTON. I ask for unanimous consent that I have 30 seconds more to finish my remarks.
Mr. McCAIN. I object.
Doesn't make it right. So McCain and Franken both look like idiots. Great.
It is not inconsistent with the rules of the senate.
So the question is: Is McCain a liar, or senile? Thoughts?
It isn't senility.
It is etiquette. This isn't a 50/50 judgment call. It is rare to cut someone off like that, hence the reason for it making news.
If I'm walking through a door, and you are 8 steps behind me with both hands full, there is no rule saying I need to wait and hold it open for you. But etiquette would suggest I can and should.
Listen, at the end of the day this is a petty thing to be spending our time on. It is just that we had two visible instances this week of Senator Franken being a jerk, and in one case fabricating facts to attempt to make a point. I think that 30% of Minnesotans, those on the left, are saying "go Al". The other 70% have been wondering if and when we'll see the unraveling of the Franken the humble servant, and are thinking this week may have been the start.
Franken won this election, by a couple hundreths of a percent, because he convinced us he could be a humble adult in DC. If he begins to act like the Air America personality and partisan author, he will have successfully pulled a bait and switch, exactly what the Ciresi and JNP supporters had feared in the primary.
His senility has been obvious ever since he announced running for Prez in 2008.
Franken, as happened earlier that day when Alaskan Senator objected, was just doing what he was told by leadership in order to keep things flowing. No one was being allowed extra because it would delay and add up.
That being said, you can honestly say that Franken looks like an idiot for stopping one man talking, while at the same time that one man will help to stop the entire Senate from democratically voting on a piece of legislature? Cutting off one man, terrible, cutting off the entire Senate from the right to vote is just peachy.
It isn't one man peventing the health care legislation from moving forward, it is 41 Senators. Huge difference.
You can make Lieberman the villian in this story, but he is not the only one. He is just the one who pisses you off the most because he isn't falling into line like an obedient Democrat.
If the Senate ran its debates like the House, which has 4 times the number of members, we would have had a vote on HCR by Thanksgiving, not watching them gavel in at 1:01 a.m. on a Friday just to stay on schedule.
This is a freaking sideshow. Boo hoo, for evwyones huwt widdle feewings.
In real news, Ben Nelson has traded his support for sweeping health insurance legislation for an undisclosed unspent stimulus and future consideration. Harry now has 60 votes. The White House finally has put the Republicans and the Lobbyists into checkmate.
A good start.
Give it a shot. This could be a good start, and in the future could move toward more of a consumer-directed approach as is supported by many top academics and industry observers. It takes time to arrive at the right answer, but you need to start someone.
You need to start somewhere, not someone.
Suggestion for editors: an edit button.
Dan, Give it up. McCain is both a liar and hypocrite. You don't watch the Senate enough to pass judgment and the media has grown to scared of going up against conservatives so they don't do any research.
Earlier that day, in the same body, Senator Begich from Alaska (by way of the Iron Range-woot woot) had to cut off Sen Cornyn from extending his time after it expired. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTM8AzLZv2s
So, in one day we were able to find two instances that McCain is dead wrong. McCain was damn sure present for both, so what is he? A liar or senile old coot?
I'm not the one claiming it is a rare occurance. I'm telling you what I've read in many news sources. The fact that we can dig up one example from 2002 of McCain doing it — a man who has been in Washington since the 70's — tells me that it doesn't happen often. Otherwise there would be many examples.
So perhaps Begich and Franken were just following orders from their masters. I thought you all were proud of how Al went to Washington to fight. At least that is what people claimed in the recent thread about Franken's misinformed tantrum against Thune.
Franken was just following orders. From his boss. I get it.
I'm not the one claiming it is a rare occurance. I'm telling you what I've read in many news sources. The fact that we can dig up one example from 2002 of McCain doing it — a man who has been in Washington since the 70's — tells me that it doesn't happen often. Otherwise there would be many examples.
Really? Just the day before you wrote above:
It is rare to cut someone off like that, hence the reason for it making news.
It's not surprising you're a fan of McCain and Lieberman.
He's a senile old lying coot, and you're an apologist for anything that appears to be bucking the norm.
(By the way has been in Congress since 82, not the 70's. He was still on the taxpayers though back in the 70's as some bureaucrat for the Defense Dept. AND, we only dug up the example from his piehole in 2002- its so rare that earlier that day it happened to another Senator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTM8AzLZv2s)
Quit fighting over stupid stuff. Comity is bullshit.
If this bill dies abortion will be what is blamed for it but always remember, it wasn't Republicans that put abortion language into this bill - no one has even read this bill.
Comity and bipartisan are codewords for the dolts who know nothing about politics…in the long run nobody gives a damn about bipartisanship if good policy is made. For some reason it is always the liberals in the Senate who take it on the chin but NONE of them whine and say that they will filibuster the bill if they don't get their way, but Lieberman and these corporate Democrats and all Republicans basically say that they will shut down the Senate if they don't get everything that they want. So here we have it, the Senate always run by a minority of votes. Ain't no way to run a country.
Where the source of this quote. Not even a date, just a year?
I guess that "Won't Be Silenced" is officially the dumbest Republican troll to ever show up here. Which is really saying something.
Here is the link to the raw story with the link to the Cspan archive of McCain denying Dayton time in 2002. It did happen. McCain obviously is getting too senile….
Where's the link?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator's time has expired.
Mr. DAYTON. I ask for unanimous consent that I have 30 seconds more to finish my remarks.
Mr. McCAIN. I object.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Objection is heard.
http://cns.miis.edu/cr/021014sd.htm
So, we have one example of McCain not allowing unanimous consent for another Senator to continue speaking and he has been a Senator for how many decades? Franken managed to wrangle protocol after less than 6 months in office. We were told and shown the hot headed nature of Franken during the campaign. Franken is not a partisan talk show host or joke writer anymore. He should stop acting like and start acting like a Senator who represents the great state of Minnesota.
Franken was simply following instructions from the majority leader, just like freshman Senator Mark Begich earlier in the day. Begich did the exact same thing to Cronyn. The facts are not on your side.
You don't watch the senate much, do you? If you do, you have proven, once again, that you are a liar.
I agree this minor incident has gotten way too much attention. I am curious to the case of Frankin fabrication of facts to which you refer. I am sure it in no way compares to the line of complete bs recently pushed by half of senate republicans. The dems are so minor league compared to repubs in terms of misrepresentations, lies and obstuctionist tactics. It's a bit complex to explain so take time to read for yourself the level of repub lies and politics, then come back and whine about Al some more.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/18/partisan-mili...
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/17/johanns-goldf...
For really good use of your time devoted to politics and policy, watch Bill Moyers show from last night. His guests brilliantly describe the state of our nation.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12182009/watch….
It is rare to cut someone off like that So rare that it happened earlier in the day as well. Park your faux outrage at the door. The ONLY people who think this is some sort of stink are the media and hypocrite McCain.
"Lieberman laughed off the incident as much ado about nothing when he returned to the chamber a couple of hours later. He said that Franken apparently was following procedures for sticking to time limits that had been handed down by Senate leaders. Franken had made a good-natured gesture with his hands, Lieberman said, "as if to say 'There's nothing I can do'." "
McCain proved once again that reasonable people can no longer reasonably assume GOPers are telling the truth.
And I'm not surprised you're backing the lying hypocrite, DtM. Not at all.
FOR THE RECORD: here's the link to the Senate Record, where Bushy McSame, er, 'scuse me, "Senator McCain" objected to Senator Dayton's request for an extra 30 seconds:
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r107:1:./te...
He's not a democrat, and he pisses me off exactly as much as the rest of those lying shitheels.
The premise you are using it quite ironic.
So if John McCain did it once, then it is OK for Franken to do? Does that mean you hold McCain in high regard, high enough that we desire Franken to mimic him?
I am curious to the case of Frankin fabrication of facts to which you refer
I am referring to the 5-minute rant that Franken went on earlier in the week against Senator Thune, where Franken "grew unusually irate on the Senate Floor". Boy, the man had passion. He had feeling. He was really speaking from his heart.
The only problem: The premise of his entire argument was false. He spoke for 5 minutes about how Thune had said none of the health reform benefits would start on 1/1/09. He said at least three times that "you are entitled to your own opinion, but…. yada yada", as if to be sure the bloggers would catch it for a soundbyte.
Go back and watch Thune's presentation which somehow triggered Franken's moodiness, and the exact quote from Thune was "most of the benefits don't kick in until 2014." The CBO says that only 1% of the benefits begin on day 1.
Thune was absolutely correct. Franken obscured facts and made for a heated, passioniate, inaccurate speech. Style and entertainments points go to Franken. Accuracy and validity points, though, go to Thune.
When he is following direction from the majority leader and NOBODY (indicated by it happening earlier in the day) is allowed to go over, AND the people (with one hypocritical exception) in the Senate don't seem to think its ANYTHING worth talking about, then yes it is OK.
The point about McCain is his hypocrisy and or fading memory. How many times does that need to be pointed out to you before you get it.
The point is- its also the privilege and ANY ONE Senator to not allow a time extension on remarks. Its happened over and over especially when the GOP was in control and ANY Democrat attempted to extend debate and remarks about the Iraq War.
In this case- Lieberman is asking for an extension while at the same time- I repeat- while at the same time supporting a filibuster just to run time out on voting for Health Reform.
Where is your integrity on this discussion DtM?
Someone has to hold the wingnuts accountable for their lies. I'm proud that Senator Franken cares enough to point out that Thune is a lying weasel.
Specifically, what lie did he tell?